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Coconut oil =fat-melter, meat satiation, and other fails...

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  • Coconut oil =fat-melter, meat satiation, and other fails...

    I've learned a lot for MY BODY on primal, since 2010, and a few things that it's taken a few years to get a definitive stance on, for me, is that: more coconut oil = weight gain, no satiety, increased hunger. More meat= increased weight gain and hunger. I could eat a whole cow and jar of delicious virgin coconut oil in one sitting. It doesn't matter if I eat no carbs, just fat and meat, I'll eat a lot, and get plump. Lean meat+lots of veg = thinner. No meat, lots of veg, 4 tablespoons of fat, give or take=lean. Sweet potatoes, veg, starch, two tablespoons of fat = very lean and full. Now, bear with me, my husband, 6'4, 140 lbs, very thin, but ripped, eats whole meat pizzas, bags of chips, bowls of dairy-laden dip, two-loaves of bread per week, and no fat or weight gain. We are 31 years old. Our bodies are different. I do better on veg, seafood, lowfat, no refined sugar, and he does good on anything! I'd hate him, except, I can wear his cuffed jeans...

  • #2
    coconut oil is a win at getting rid of blackheads tho
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
    lol

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    • #3
      Refined fats of any description do nothing for my hunger. Coconut oil, butter, olive oil....all delicious but I could eat tons in isolation and still need a good meal straight after. Only eating whole foods, like a big plate of meat and veg, really keeps me full for any length of time. I suspect it's the same for many people. Protein keeps hunger at bay, not fat in my experience. I know others may find the opposite true too. We're a wacky species.
      My Journal: Englishman In Oz, Skinny to Muscle in a Primal Way

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      • #4
        Yay, I'm happy for you that low-fat high-carb is working so well for you.

        Why are you here again? don't remember...

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        • #5
          When people say fat is satiating, they can't mean eating the same amount of calories of pure fat versus real food will make you feel as full. I mean I'm not jumping on anybody -- it confuses me and I think this obviously has to be this case -- hundreds of calories of coconut oil takes up hardly any space in your stomach. Is the idea that if you wait it out, feeling tummy hunger, that in a little bit you feel like a superstar (with a rumbling stomach, or no?) ?

          Doesn't the advice to go high-fat mean eat plenty of fat along with your big, filling plate of vegetables and meat?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by sjmc View Post
            Doesn't the advice to go high-fat mean eat plenty of fat along with your big, filling plate of vegetables and meat?
            Yes. And no. It depends on whose advice your following and on what day. In the book, Mark advocates eating fat from whole animal and vegetable foods (fatty meats/avocados/nuts etc). Or adding fat to your existing meal (butter on your veg etc.). Sounds fine. But then there's the blog posts extolling the virtues of the ubiquitous Bulletproof coffee, which is fat in isolation.

            Then there's the forum people who believe that fat is the answer to everything. And others, like me, who find it does little to help satiety. I don't avoid fat, I love it. On naturally fatty foods. But I'm against chugging oils by the spoonful and butter by the brick, because, while they're not exactly empty calories, there's certainly much more beneficial ways to consume them.

            So play around with fat, see what effect it has on you. But don't expect it to offer the same satiety/body composition from one body to the next. If someone says to you, "oh, you're not losing weight? You should add more fat!", be very wary. Same applies to hunger. It might work, but it might not.

            It's not an exact science, there's too many variables. I think (only think, I'm not sure) this is the point the OP is making.
            My Journal: Englishman In Oz, Skinny to Muscle in a Primal Way

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            • #7
              also, technically speaking, "low fat" means 30% of calories (or less) from fat. Which by many people's standards is *not* "low fat" in their idea/feeling space about what low-fat means.

              on these boards, most people consider you "low fat" if you are below 50% (which I am), or even below 40% (I'm basically at this one).

              so, even these have different definitions. i'm also like englishmaninoz -- it's really about food, not adding fat to things. i never really went to any extremes. the toughest was moving to only two pieces of fruit (or less) per day. I was used to eating 3-5 there and then also my veg -- so pretty high carb relatively. by moving to 2 pieces a day, I get the sweetness that I like (after each of my two meals), and I keep my carb count lower.

              But, i eat a lot of veggies by volume honestly. so, i'm heading towards 40f, 30p, 30c really.

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              • #8
                Where does the assumption that all bodies should work the same way come from?
                I do great on high fat but I lost hunger early in life when kids at school stole my food regularly, I can't rely on satiety to tell me if I ate enough or not -following a plan allows me to avoid mindless eating given how good I became at the mindless stuff lately.
                Ice cream makes me hungry, and so does my hormonal cycling so apparently I'll have a sort of monthly routine of heavy carb binge.
                Coconut oil helped my skin and hair, it had a great impact on dealing with methyl prednisone side effects (which were nasty on my skin and hair) and the only thing with the power to send my life to pot is sugar in all its incarnations (insulin up is a total don't for me). That's me though, it could be useful for someone who has a dynamic matching mine but it could hardly work for a guy trying desperately to gain pound over pound of lean weight.
                Meat is a big fav here at home but anything over my 30 gr of protein (a bit more if I'm glycogen depleted) and insulin will go up through the roof. I can't have BCCA after workouts for the same reason, those are no good for me.
                Primal eating is a good frame, it's not a low carb eating program but a lifestyle which allows people to live healthy and clean; how many carbs you choose to go with is up to you, your body and your goals.
                For me running on carbs is a bad idea, I notice huge improvement when I go VLC which is not common for females -not easy either but I'm tired of having my legs swollen with fluid. Maybe this will change in time, once I get to a more stable situation with less stress and work out a better pharmacological framing with the team following me but I really doubt there's room for tweaking over there.


                Luce


                I know people who deals amazingly good with carbs, even if refined: no insulin resistance there and nothing remotely resembling excess body fat. Is not my case, my body is all I have to work with so I adjust to what makes me feel better.
                No limits, only my will and the worlds I build.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rasputina View Post
                  I do better on veg, seafood, lowfat, no refined sugar
                  Nothing wrong with that at all. Sounds like a healthy primal diet.

                  OT: I'm curious why so many people are afraid or unwilling (or whatever the right word) to actually spell out the word vegetable?

                  I'm not particularly fond of coconut oil either. It's nice to have around for cooking. I think seafood is probably the best thing you can eat, especially salmon.
                  Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                  • #10
                    6'4, 140 lbs, very thin, but ripped
                    Holy crap! Feed that dude!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                      OT: I'm curious why so many people are afraid or unwilling (or whatever the right word) to actually spell out the word vegetable?
                      I suspect laziness, as all the variants I've seen have fewer letters.

                      I'm curious as to why OT seems like a good abbreviation for off-topic, when it is an equally good abbreviation for *on*-topic. Or why someone would include an abbreviation in a question asking why someone might use an abbreviation. Not snarking, just amused. :-)

                      @ the OP -
                      I was never one to eat coconut oil off the spoon. meh. But I did cook with it a lot because I liked the taste. I quickly found that this method allowed me to eat tons of extra calories that didn't really add much to my overall *fullness* - same way I can go through a half pound of macadamias without blinking.

                      What I've found is that whole-foods serve me better for satiation. I still cook with coconut oil, but now I only use it on lean cuts of meat. Like Filet Mignon or flat-iron. But not with strip steak or prime rib - the fattier cuts I favor. Likewise I cook my fairly lean skinless cod in butter and olive oil. But I add very little fat (if any) when I cook skin-on king salmon. Coho and sockeye almost require more fat no matter how you cook them.

                      Personally I can get by fairly well on mostly meat and fat with few veggies and no starches. If I choose whole foods (or use tricks like the one above where I add just enough fat to mimic the fat that would be on a less-lean cut of meat) I stay full. I do less well on the fiber-fill where I dump lean meat on a leafy salad. It works but doesn't keep me full as long.

                      My wife, however, is just the opposite. Like you she packs on pounds doing moderate- or high-fat-primal, but leans down fast on a diet of lean(ish) meats and tons of veggies (including starches like white rice and white potatoes). That works for her for steady, consistent weight loss. But she stays hungry and has to snack between meals to get through the day, but if she sticks to mostly whole unprocessed food she loses weight.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by RaeVynn View Post
                        Yay, I'm happy for you that low-fat high-carb is working so well for you.

                        Why are you here again? don't remember...
                        Works well for a lot of people, particularly when they get their carbs from whole foods and their fats from good sources (sat fat/ high omega-3 oils and neutral oils rather than the processed omega-6 crap). And these forums are an awesome place to get both recipes and advice on both good fats and whole foods. There are tons of people on this forum who got great initial results on high- to moderate-fat primal who then plateaued or even gained and had to make adjustments that included more whole veggies, less protein, less fat to reset and continue losing weight.

                        I guarantee I regularly eat more fat than Mark and waaaay fewer veggies - because my initial success (including a daily BAS like he does and an obscene obsession with broccoli, cauliflower, and homemade salsa) petered out and required changes to figure out what worked best for me. Nixing veggies from most meals did the trick. One thing I've learned on these forums and from my own N=1 (not to mention my wife's N=1 that I mentioned in the above post) is that one size definitely does not fit all.

                        Oh, and that these forums rock regardless of where you're at in the process.

                        (Iodine and leptin threads perhaps being the occasional exceptions)

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                        • #13
                          my primary use of coconut oil is oil pulling. I can't stand to eat the stuff. I can hardly stand to oil pull with the stuff (i could use sesame, but then i'm buying yet another oil; might as well use what is handy). I also use coconut oil on my skin, it's nice there too.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mikebike View Post
                            Holy crap! Feed that dude!
                            He eats massive amounts of food He manages a cafe! It's just genetic, as his father and brother are exactly the same!!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by RaeVynn View Post
                              Yay, I'm happy for you that low-fat high-carb is working so well for you.

                              Why are you here again? don't remember...
                              Why so snarky? Many people have difficulty losing weight eating high-fat, and the closer one gets to weight goals, the more necessary it is to reduce fat to see continued improvements. She's not bashing fat, just saying that eating a lot of it doesn't magically melt away body fat, as many people are quick to claim.


                              I'm always a little jealous of the folks who shed fat by eating fatty stuff; it's never worked for me. I can lose fat only eating low-fat. I got down to 106lbs by eating lean protein and veggies and fruit, and the moment I added fattier foods (mainly from pastured meats and some coconut oil, the weight packed on, even though I kept my carbs at around 50 grams.

                              I did an elimination diet for several weeks to pinpoint my IBS triggers where I ate no carbs and higher fat, and I totally gained weight. What a downer! That was the final straw in helping me to realize that this high-fat/low-carb thing just doesn't work for me. I wish it did, because in theory it sounds great.

                              In the past month, I've been experimenting with my diet because I'm trying to figure out if my debilitating fatigue could be either due to or made worse by my diet. So instead of low-carb/high protein/moderate fat, I'm trying low-fat/high carb/moderate protein. Still early, but so far, so good.

                              Regardless of which macros a person favors, I see this forum as a place for people who are mostly interested in eating real foods - pastured animals, local fruits and veggies, no industrialized seed oils, gluten, etc....with a focus on traditionally prepared/fermented foods. This focus on quality food doesn't necessarily mean either high or low fat eating.

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