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  • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    The last "cycle" was about 1400 calories of low fat vegetarian a day combined with doing the Insanity workouts (35 minutes of hard work) followed by an hour run 5 days a week, plus horseback riding plus a weekly run of 10 plus miles. When that amount of effort leads to nothing but back pain (after 4 months, no scale loss, no change in clothes fit), you begin to question if improving is worth it.

    I think on this forum in particular, there are more people with my story- (fat and fit, so to speak), and we probably get more pissy then the general population when people start throwing around the idea that for whatever reason fat people don't make enough effort.
    Yeah, look at David Attia. This fatty swam across the ocean to Catalina Island. Swimming to one of the Channel Islands is quite an accomplishment.



    Look at this fatty! He has hiked up and down the length and width of the United States. Hiking across the US isn't enough to keep him skinny. It wasn't enough to keep me skinny, either.

    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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    • Originally posted by TheFastCat View Post
      I actually was graduated with a degree in Classics, translated the Aeneid and lots of prose, poetry over my seven years of studying it. I have traveled to 21 foreign countries so far, sit in front of a computer at work 8.5 hours a day and exercise with crossfit, yoga and oly lifting six days a week an average of 1.5 hours a day. I have being Prileo for 2.5 years now. I took the piano for three years as a child before realizing I hated it and could just listen to other people play music instead of having to do it myself. I am very driven to expand my knowledge, experiences, performance and growth in all areas of my lift -- health included.

      So while I agree with your sentiment that an individual should be vested in expanding their limitations and experiences in all areas of their life, though once again am at odds with your insinuation that being healthy comes at the expense of education, culture and learning. You *can* do it all.
      Oh, I agree with you - I just think that most of the buff and ripped fat-haters here have not, in fact, obtained a degree in Classics or translated the Aeneid. In fact, I'd think that fat-hate, and the level of immaturity it indicates, should be inversely correlated with intellectual accomplishment of any kind.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by meepster View Post
        I think you're biased because you're surrounded by athletes all the time. I'm surrounded by musicians and lawyers all the time; that's my social circle. Quite a few of them are overweight - sitting at a piano 8 hours a day doesn't leave a lot of room for other activities. Neither does sitting at a desk all day. These are awesome people who are focused on things other than health and fitness most of the time. Sure, they may occasionally go for a walk or get a workout at the gym, and they may occasionally think about eating "healthy", but they're not laser-focused on health and fitness the way your athlete friends probably are. They've got other concerns - preparing for an upcoming concert tour, learning a new piece of music, preparing for trial, volunteering at whatever thing they volunteer in, whatever. And yes, some of them are fat. Some of them are worrying about how to lose weight. Some of them don't care - they've got more important things to do.

        I'm one of those too, btw. I've got my health/fitness needs more or less dialed in, and now I don't obsess anymore. I don't spend hours working out at the gym, I don't count my carbs or calories or whatever. I just live my life, don't keep any wheat or sugar products around the house, and focus on things other than health/fitness. I'm staying reasonably slim this way, so I guess it's working. If there was any justice in the world, I'd weigh 300 lbs - but there isn't.
        My athlete friends and the guys I train with all have amazing careers outside of the sports they practice. My rugby team in college was a mix of engineers, lawyers and doctors. The average education for my BJJ friends at the is probably around a Bachelor's degree and higher also.

        The thing with health and being fit is that it helps every other aspect of your life. You can be a great pianist and be unhealthy and fat, but you'd be even better if you were healthy and fit. Better focus, more happiness, better sleep and better recuperation, it's the whole package deal. You're great despite your body, when it could be launching you even further.
        Last edited by Winterbike; 08-29-2012, 07:27 PM.

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        • Originally posted by Winterbike View Post
          My athlete friends and the guys I train with all have amazing careers outside of the sports they practice. My rugby team in college was a mix of engineers, lawyers and doctors. The average education for my BJJ friends at the is probably around a Bachelor's degree and higher also.

          The thing with health and being fit is that it helps every other aspect of your life. You can be a great pianist and be unhealthy and fat, but you'd be even better if you were healthy and fit. Better focus, more happiness, better sleep and better recuperation, it's the whole package deal. You're great despite your body, when it could be launching you even further.
          Oh, I agree - there's a reason why I'm on this site. I try to live as healthy a lifestyle as I can (though I'm not much into sports). But note that what Mark recommends to promote health and fitness goes far beyond the CW "jog an hour a day, lift some weights, and count calories" approach. Just losing weight, in and of itself, won't make you healthy. We all know that. Health does not necessarily involve being an athlete (a lot of athletes end up injured at a young age, which is hardly healthy) - it involves optimal functioning of your body and mind. This means that you shouldn't just focus on playing sports. Yeah, sports are fun if you are into this sort of thing. But for health, you also need to focus on emotional equilibrium, social connections, sex life, mental agility, avoidance of stress, adequate sleep, employment that satisfies and fulfills you, a social role that satisfies and fulfills you, and so on and so forth. We're more than just muscles and fat. We're social animals. Optimal functioning involves far more than a regular workout and a healthy diet, as important as those things are.

          Many of my friends are elderly - in their 60's, 70's and 80's. By looking at them, I see what is important in reaching old age in good condition. None of these people are athletes - yeah, one of them runs marathons a lot at the age of 70 or so, and one sweet old lady has lost a lot of weight by going to Curves and watching her calories, but for the most part they're not the sort of folks who work out - but they are healthy, vital, and happy, at an advanced age. I know these folks through music, and I see them go to all the concerts they can possibly get to, go to the after-party following the concert, and have fun until 3am. I hope I reach old age with that sort of clear mind and that sort of energy. Social connections and a healthy family life are, I think, as important as a healthy diet and good exercise, if not more so.

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          • In fact, I attribute my current slim figure and healthy appearance to the fact that I never embraced any conventional theories on Getting Healthy. Jogging? Nah - too lazy. Going on some extreme diet the moment I see a single fat cell? Nah - too gluttonous. Waking up at 5am to go exercise every morning? Are you kidding me? Vegetarianism? Tried it, lasted a month, felt like I was starving all the time - no thank you. Fake sugar? Blergh. Calorie counting? Forget it. Mind you, I don't actively set out to ruin my health by eating junk food or smoking or whatever - but neither have I ruined my health by CW theories on "healthy living" (chronic cardio, low-fat eating, and so on). Those can be just as damaging. (marathon runners have heart damage similar to that found in heart-disease patients) Moreover, obsessional thinking, even if it is about healthy food, is very bad for your mental health - and mental health is part of "health", isn't it?
            I think it depends on what you find attractive if you are not prompted by a nutritional philosophy of one kind or another. If I cleaned my mind of any knowledge of nutrients and what not, and just concentrated inwards, and started eating what I am inclined to eating/craving, what I will end up with would be something like:

            Hot buckwheat or millet or rice porridge with milk and sugar or quark with home made berry jam for breakfast; fruit and cheese with veggies sandwich for lunch; meat and veggie soup with pumpernickel and mustard bread and sour cream or potatoes with fish fried in oil (not deep fried) or stew with something pickled for supper and more fruit and a pastry/candy with tea or kefir with fruit and bread. All food would be home-made, even bread. I would go for walks, lots of walks and work in the garden. And sit in the office the rest of the day.

            That's neither CW, nor PB, nor paleo, nor vegetarian, I don't think it's even SAD... and I will gain weight on that kindda 'normal' eating like crazy. I probably will be overweight before the year was out if I started eating like that tomorrow, gaining 40 lbs. I keep telling myself I will be eating that way once I no longer care; before I thought it will be when I am 60 yo. Now I doubt that number.... I was reading this book yesterday, and a character that is in AA there says that she was told by others that an alcoholic would always miss alcohol. So, I guess, I will always miss that way of eating, as I cram in coconut oil, eggs and seaweed, skip meals and train myself to use Authoritative NO when I walk by a tree full of ripening apples.
            Last edited by Leida; 08-30-2012, 06:49 AM.
            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
            When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

            Comment


            • Leida, you are so preoccupied with food and your body. I swear you have the mind of someone who is literally starving. No amount of weight loss or physical perfection can possibly be worth that.
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

              Comment


              • Sbhikes, I have the mind of someone who starved once, rather than the mind of someone who is starving now. I grew with food shortages and very limited choices, then was over-whelmed with the bounty here in the West (do you know I first tried broccoli when I was 23?), then the harsh CW experience, and now the self-imposed restrictive diet that eliminates the only nutritional attachment I have left (fruit). So, I do not starve. I can have all the coconut oil I need to feel full. But I cannot have what I like eating the most even though it is all around me. It is worth it for me though, because I have seen myself overweight, and I can't go there again, at least not now.
                Last edited by Leida; 08-30-2012, 09:32 AM.
                My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                Comment


                • This thread has certainly been interesting to follow!

                  I'm going to boil it down to this:

                  If you want to expend the extra energy to get to some Hollywood ideal instead of simply leading a healthier existence, fine. Knock yourself out.

                  If you still make assumptions about those with some pounds on them, I feel sorry for you.

                  Life is more than just how you look. It's how you feel, how you treat others, how much fun you're having, how generous and caring you are. Eating better, moving more, getting adequate rest sets us up to be able to wipe our own a$$es at the age of 85 and lessens our chances of being on 500 pharmaceuticals just to eek out some additional semi-miserable years.

                  That's why I consciously choose to not worry about the weight loss. It's extremely liberating. I'm LIVING my life. I have extra weight on me that's slowly coming off. It's not the end-all be-all for me anymore.

                  Besides -- in 1000 years, we'll all look the same. A big pile of f*cking dust.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Leida View Post
                    Sbhikes, I have the mind of someone who starved once, rather than the mind of someone who is starving now. I grew with food shortages and very limited choices, then was over-whelmed with the bounty here in the West (do you know I first tried broccoli when I was 23?), then the harsh CW experience, and now the self-imposed restrictive diet that eliminates the only nutritional attachment I have left (fruit). So, I do not starve. I can have all the coconut oil I need to feel full. But I cannot have what I like eating the most even though it is all around me. It is worth it for me though, because I have seen myself overweight, and I can't go there again, at least not now.
                    Maybe because you lost weight too fast, so you are still technically in that once-starved phase.
                    My chocolatey Primal journey

                    Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

                    Comment


                    • I lost weight 3+ years ago. The mindset though generally stays with you for a very long time. When my mom and I were doing week long fasting by choice, my grandmother could not accept the idea since she survived the famine during the war. Once you seriously face the threat of not having food to eat, and not just in your house, but in the stores, it does change you. Eating a limited diet and not by choice changes you. That's why I am unable to accept the idea of a 100 miles diet - as much as I like local food. As a kid I stood in the multiple-hour line-up as the second set of 'hand' since it was X amount per person you could buy, to buy bananas that they 'brought out' for like once in a year occasion, and having the fruit to ran out before your turn came up... I now stand before the meters of shelves full of bananas any time day and night, and next to it are the fruit and vegetables I did not know existed... holy cow. Pineapples! Strawberries! Grapefruits! Holy COW! Supermarket is my childhood version of Eden.
                      Last edited by Leida; 08-30-2012, 10:58 AM.
                      My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                      When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Leida View Post
                        I think it depends on what you find attractive if you are not prompted by a nutritional philosophy of one kind or another. If I cleaned my mind of any knowledge of nutrients and what not, and just concentrated inwards, and started eating what I am inclined to eating/craving, what I will end up with would be something like:

                        Hot buckwheat or millet or rice porridge with milk and sugar or quark with home made berry jam for breakfast; fruit and cheese with veggies sandwich for lunch; meat and veggie soup with pumpernickel and mustard bread and sour cream or potatoes with fish fried in oil (not deep fried) or stew with something pickled for supper and more fruit and a pastry/candy with tea or kefir with fruit and bread. All food would be home-made, even bread. I would go for walks, lots of walks and work in the garden. And sit in the office the rest of the day.

                        That's neither CW, nor PB, nor paleo, nor vegetarian, I don't think it's even SAD... and I will gain weight on that kindda 'normal' eating like crazy. I probably will be overweight before the year was out if I started eating like that tomorrow, gaining 40 lbs. I keep telling myself I will be eating that way once I no longer care; before I thought it will be when I am 60 yo. Now I doubt that number.... I was reading this book yesterday, and a character that is in AA there says that she was told by others that an alcoholic would always miss alcohol. So, I guess, I will always miss that way of eating, as I cram in coconut oil, eggs and seaweed, skip meals and train myself to use Authoritative NO when I walk by a tree full of ripening apples.
                        Leida, are you Russian? Your diet sounds like that. I'm from Russia too - and you know what, the SRD (Standard Russian Diet) is nowhere near as unhealthy as the SAD. What you described doesn't sound all that horrible or all that unhealthy. And since when are apples non-Primal?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kkratz57 View Post
                          This thread has certainly been interesting to follow!

                          I'm going to boil it down to this:

                          If you want to expend the extra energy to get to some Hollywood ideal instead of simply leading a healthier existence, fine. Knock yourself out.

                          If you still make assumptions about those with some pounds on them, I feel sorry for you.

                          Life is more than just how you look. It's how you feel, how you treat others, how much fun you're having, how generous and caring you are. Eating better, moving more, getting adequate rest sets us up to be able to wipe our own a$$es at the age of 85 and lessens our chances of being on 500 pharmaceuticals just to eek out some additional semi-miserable years.

                          That's why I consciously choose to not worry about the weight loss. It's extremely liberating. I'm LIVING my life. I have extra weight on me that's slowly coming off. It's not the end-all be-all for me anymore.

                          Besides -- in 1000 years, we'll all look the same. A big pile of f*cking dust.
                          Yup. Exactly.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                            Leida, you are so preoccupied with food and your body. I swear you have the mind of someone who is literally starving. No amount of weight loss or physical perfection can possibly be worth that.
                            I'm getting that impression too. This is why I hate the "fat=unhealthy, thin=healthy" thinking, btw - that someone whose every thought is about food, who dreams about ripening apples (and what on earth is wrong with apples?), and who is so obsessed with food that she has to exercise iron-willed control every single moment is "healthy". This is not health. This is not what we should be striving for.

                            Weight is not everything. If you want to lose weight really really quickly, lopping off a leg is probably the quickest way of doing that - but it sure won't be "healthy", right? Neither is starving yourself like that.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by kkratz57 View Post
                              This thread has certainly been interesting to follow!

                              I'm going to boil it down to this:

                              If you want to expend the extra energy to get to some Hollywood ideal instead of simply leading a healthier existence, fine. Knock yourself out.

                              If you still make assumptions about those with some pounds on them, I feel sorry for you.

                              Life is more than just how you look. It's how you feel, how you treat others, how much fun you're having, how generous and caring you are. Eating better, moving more, getting adequate rest sets us up to be able to wipe our own a$$es at the age of 85 and lessens our chances of being on 500 pharmaceuticals just to eek out some additional semi-miserable years.

                              That's why I consciously choose to not worry about the weight loss. It's extremely liberating. I'm LIVING my life. I have extra weight on me that's slowly coming off. It's not the end-all be-all for me anymore.

                              Besides -- in 1000 years, we'll all look the same. A big pile of f*cking dust.
                              Totally agree with what you say in theory. I am the healthiest, though not the slimmest I have ever been and feel so much better.
                              However when I see my backside in the mirror I feel shocked that it looks so big and it makes me feel down.
                              It is too easy to get drawn into ideals.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Leida View Post
                                I lost weight 3+ years ago. The mindset though generally stays with you for a very long time. When my mom and I were doing week long fasting by choice, my grandmother could not accept the idea since she survived the famine during the war. Once you seriously face the threat of not having food to eat, and not just in your house, but in the stores, it does change you. Eating a limited diet and not by choice changes you. That's why I am unable to accept the idea of a 100 miles diet - as much as I like local food. As a kid I stood in the multiple-hour line-up as the second set of 'hand' since it was X amount per person you could buy, to buy bananas that they 'brought out' for like once in a year occasion, and having the fruit to ran out before your turn came up... I now stand before the meters of shelves full of bananas any time day and night, and next to it are the fruit and vegetables I did not know existed... holy cow. Pineapples! Strawberries! Grapefruits! Holy COW! Supermarket is my childhood version of Eden.
                                I think because you lost weight too quickly and stayed there, your body is still in starvation mode thinking. On top of lots of stress you're putting on your body right now, you're definitely going to stay there forever until you loosen up.
                                My chocolatey Primal journey

                                Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

                                Comment

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