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  • I don't see what is so awesome about being so judgmental.
    Thanks. We all have things to work on. As I trim up, I find that well, I still have faults. I don't have a balance in my life.

    I think above all, being fat is an outward sign of bad nutrition. I have been fat and in two places.... at 300lbs, I was fat because I ate crap we all know is crap and didn't exercise. I wore that and people were mean. We justify it by saying its about health, but no one was mean to the binge drinkers or smokers or the ones that vomited up foods, not mean to the disabled. Unfortunately, fat is like wearing sign that says "I'm out of control and treat my body like a dumpster". It makes me annoyed to see people not responsible for their health. It makes me mad to think people just shovel crap into their kids.

    The problem with fat is that its not that cut and dry. I was also a 200 plus pound marathoner, vegetarian. I still had to wear my sign that says "I'm out of control and treat my body like a dumpster". And people like Gilleh see me and say what an irresponsible idiot.

    It's weird and as I get slimmer, I am treated better and better and it occurs to me, it is 100% my appearance and not my worth as a person in terms of intelligence, kindness etc. that elicits better treatment. People are nice to me because I am a cute blonde with a nice rack and little waist. People listen to me in meetings because I fit in the chair nicely and can cross my legs.

    Truth be told, 5 years ago I was a better person. I volunteered. I exercised more (OK, arguable on Primal site. but). I had more friends that I helped more. I worked harder at work. I was less catty. Now people are nicer to me. ?

    Fat people are really defensive
    You'd be defensive too if people were nasty to you just because of the size of your ass. I sat in a meeting and listened to a client complain about the fat asses of WalMart. No one ever looked at my shopping cart and said "Hey, you know for the sake of your health, swap out the ice cream with some fruit". They just glared... AND IT HAPPENS ALL THE DAMN TIME. No one ever glares at what I buy now. So you know what people are thinking "Fat ass".... Gilleh, if people glared at you all the time for living and working, do ya think you might maybe be a little defensive?

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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    • You're missing the point. Not everyone can physiologically be as lean as you seem to think they should be. Again, in case I haven't said it enough, I hit my head twice and my body won't cooperate any more. Prior to that, it did. I'm not doing anything differently. I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess others may have similar issues stemming from a variety of circumstances. Throw your gene pool into the mix and none of us are playing on the same field.

      I'm not even all that heavy, only about 20 pounds over where I was when I slammed my head, and I do believe my weight isn't any higher due to eating Primally. But it gave me some serious insight into what others are dealing with and how frustrating it can be, because I've been doing everything I can with no results.

      So... I try not to make assumptions about what other people are and aren't doing to improve their health. I don't know what additional issues they're dealing with, so I can't really say if they're "trying" or not.
      Durp.

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      • I'm with Quelsen. Unless you are the one walking in those shoes, STFU!!!
        Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt.

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        • Originally posted by Gilleh View Post
          No one said otherwise. Fat people are really defensive (even if they had lost the weight, it seems they remain defensive).

          Did you read Cori93437's massage? What the fuck was that?
          sbhikes, did anyone here write that it's "awesome to be judgemental"? I don't think so.
          meepster, you're a total demagogue. The talk wasn't about getting ripped (10%) nor skinny, or whatever. It was about not being fat. Some of us said that it's disturbing for them to see people with no will to improve their physical appearance when their current appearance is leading them towards low quality well-being. Meaning those people could be doctors, musicians or the inventors of the cure for cancer. It does not matter. A sick man is a sick man, and obesity is an epidemic.
          It was a good bit of reality... with a large dose of sarcasm.

          In case you missed the posts that were previous to it I'll recap...
          Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
          For over a year now "awesome" for me would have meant not waking up and going to sleep every day to numerous neurological symptoms such as speech impairment (dysarthria, gait ataxia, etc.)... most days were a complete and utter failure.
          And I lost some weight long the way too, thanks to eating healthy "Primal", but if some people in this thread saw me in they would still judge me "fat and lazy" most likely...

          Of course, I freely admit that I'm an outlier. I have not one, but two rare diseases... not exactly your average Jane.
          However... if some of you would stop and add up all of the problems that seriously cause people to gain weight, affect peoples ability to lose weight, and the sheer numbers of people that are affected... you'd be staggered. It certainly is NOT 1% like so many here like to throw around.

          As others have said before me, remember: There but for Grace go [you].

          Health isn't about the amount of BF you can see on a person.
          Lean doesn't make a person superior.
          An absolute IDIOT and complete and utter asshole can be skinny.
          Often people are lean by the simple roll of the dice... a random stroke of good fortune means that they can be oblivious to the food that goes into their mouths and do just fine. Yet they would be judged "better".
          Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
          Low BF, because thin people NEVER have heart attacks, or joint pain, or any other health issues... riiiiiight.

          Someone should have told me that 15 years ago when my ass was young, BEAUTIFUL, and the "picture" of health, but also in pain... and had developed a chronic disease.
          Meh, I had the right BF... I was HEALTHY!
          What I'm saying, quite clearly, is that when you are walking around passing judgement all SMUG, there is NO WAY for you to know which came first...

          Many people every year... MANY more than you will ever know if you are lucky... become ill while eating a very healthy diet, at a healthy normal weight. And either the effects of the illness or the medications, or a combination of those things causes weight gain.
          Some of us... those people you would judge as "fat and lazy" "stupid" people... well, we aren't. We just have some MAJOR life obstacles that little twits like you how like to sit around being all pompous about things like this can't even begin to fathom.

          No one in this thread is saying that people should TRY to be fat, or TRY to stay fat... all we are saying is that people like you, who have zero experience in that persons shoes, should back off and stop being RUDE. Because the truth is, you have NO CLUE what a persons circumstances are.

          There but by Grace go YOU... you lucky but very shitty person.
          Just keep looking down your nose... maybe the Karma wheel will spin your direction.
          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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          • Corri
            Take a deep breath.
            You're being defensive:
            I've never used the words lazy nor stupid.
            I've never said thin people NEVER have heart attacks, or joint pain, or any other health issues.
            I said being fat increases the chances of having low well being, having higher risks of getting ill, etc.

            You think you're the only one who experience life obstacles? Please tell me you're not THAT sorry for yourself.
            I don't know exactly what's keeping you from shedding whatever weight you wish to shed, but if you think you have monopoly on how hard can life be, you're goddamn wrong. I've had my share of shit thrown at me, emotional AND physical.
            I GOT OVER IT.

            Rita -
            You have to understand, most people aren't like you (nor like corri).
            The percentage of people who are fat because of a rare, incurable condition is low.
            When do you see 10 people who are obese in the supermarket, do you think each and every one of them has a condition (while they carry frozen pizzas in their carts, I remind you)?
            Everything is bad for something - How do you feel today?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
              Quelsen, thank you. We all know what Knifegill would be thinking if he saw you at the supermarket. I hope you always go to the cleaning products aisle first thing.
              No because I doubt quelsen is buying frozen pizzas
              well then

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              • Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
                No because I doubt quelsen is buying frozen pizzas
                +1.
                Defensive people leave their logic out..
                Everything is bad for something - How do you feel today?

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                • Originally posted by Gilleh View Post
                  +1.
                  Defensive people leave their logic out..
                  Nope... you left your logic out. Because when you SEE people you don't know their story, yet you feel all snide and superior and uppity.

                  And that makes YOU less, not them.
                  “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                  ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                  And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Gilleh View Post

                    The percentage of people who are fat because of a rare, incurable condition is low.
                    What is this assumption based on? The word 'rare' does indicate 'low incidence', but the conditions need not be rare to be incurable, difficult to diagnose, understand, treat, or cure.

                    My 29 year old husband with psoriatic arthritis in his knees is often unable to do much walking (when he's lucky enough that he can walk at all), can't do any kind of weightlifting that involves putting stress on his knees (which includes even just moving weights around the gym that he'd use for his arms.)

                    It's pretty humiliating for him to rely on his wife to have to set up the weights for his bench press, because he can't squat down to reach where they are stored. The owner of the gym one day teased him about this, basically insinuating he wasn't a real man because I was doing all the 'hard work' of moving the 45lb weights around for him...you really can't tell a person's situation by looking at them (I'm sure that the gym owner SAW a healthy, strong young dude who was just being lazy.)

                    He can't do deadlifts, sprints, squats...he's very, very limited with the type of movements he can do. He can't even carry groceries up the stairs to our apartment, and has to walk down hills backward to reduce the stress on his knees. Pretty much every day there is something to humiliate him in some way.

                    LUCKILY he is a genetically lean person who can keep himself looking pretty good without too much effort. I'd be willing to bet that most people with his condition (arthritis isn't very rare, by the way) wouldn't fare so well, and would quickly and easily pack on a lot of weight even eating healthy foods in normal portions strictly due to limited movement.
                    Last edited by BestBetter; 08-29-2012, 04:20 AM.

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                    • So... I try not to make assumptions about what other people are and aren't doing to improve their health. I don't know what additional issues they're dealing with, so I can't really say if they're "trying" or not.
                      It's funny, because people have to "try"...its OK if you are trying, yet most of us know how much effort it takes. Some people have hate for fat people that should be reserved for pedophiles. I don't actually think you can change people, but realize when your mind clicks "fat ass not gonna hire her" you might be missing an amazing talent. Or "fat ass, not gonna talk to him"... that might be a great friend.

                      I hate that we make food into a fucking moral issue. And we do here. "Cheats". People fucking judge their worth on fruit and nut consumption. It's fucked up and if you look at a fat person and think "lazy" you make a moral judgement and just add to the issue. And you Gilleh, with your look, poke or comment, we notice them.... just feeds the cycle of "jeez, I'm a fat lazy slob controlled by food and am ashamed of myself". For whatever reason.... it doesn't lead to returning the ice cream or picking up some celery.

                      And then you wonder why people have fucked up relationships with food and struggle to actually eat in a normal way. Because you cycle guilt (starve yourself) then you binge.... on and on repeat. Because you feel like shit because someone glared at your grocery cart, you go home and eat lettuce for a few days then you are knee deep in oreos.

                      It is ultimately the fat persons responsibility- the fat. But really, society needs to can the "judgement" that includes morality like "lazy" and "out of control" and "stupid".

                      But to the OP's original point, how society treats fat people is why most people with a bunch of weight to lose want it gone pronto and often don't care about the other consequences to health. Above all, no one wants to be fat. It's how hard they work to get it off that varies. And that is determined by a lot, but I'm sure free time, lower stress, a level of affluence and some education makes it alot easier.

                      http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                      Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                      • Originally posted by Gilleh View Post
                        You have to understand, most people aren't like you (nor like corri).
                        But that's the point. You can't tell by looking at them.

                        Which is (one reason of many) why you don't want to make the assumption in the first place.
                        Durp.

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                        • I'll admit it, I am fat because I ate shite! (notice the past tense "ate"?) However why did I eat shite? because I was depressed and shite food seemed to give me some sort of temporary release of the depression. As I became fatter, the more depressed I became..and thus a viscious circle. Until now that (touch wood) I have decided to break the cycle.

                          It doesn't have to be a complete physical problem for someone to be fat. It is pretty much more common for someone to have a mental disorder rather than a physical one being the reason why you are fat.

                          In my opionion, like cigarette packages, I think they should put disgusting pictures of morbidly obese people with the health warning may kill you ... eventually on all fast food packages and adverts and other unhealthy food.

                          With adverts from macky D's saying "do do do do do.. Im loving it..." That relates the eating of mcdonalds to love and what kind of feeling does love make? a good feeling! These are all advertising tactics that fast food joints produce to make people buy their product and this is something that needs to stop! Untill it does we will always have the obesity problem in the western world.

                          I put obesity down to a lot of things; depression, bad education, lack of coroporate responsibility, lack of individual responsibility and yes Laziness in some cases as well. I actually think that laziness is not that common to be honest. I think that a lot of people want to change and want to be thin but don't know how to start, which comes down to a lot of the above.

                          Laziness is the act of someone knowing that they need to do something but are consciously not doing it because it is easier not to.

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                          • knowledge is such a precious thing. none of it relevant until you need it, none of it valuable to one who needs it not.

                            the genetically gifted must work to destroy their health, and some do accomplish this feat

                            the genetically challenged must work to maintain and or correct their health and some do accomplish this feat.

                            I suspect i know more about health and nutrition than 95% of the individuals posting on this entire forum. and yet only 2-5% of the information in my noggin actually effects change in my situation.

                            My ex wife could and did eat as sad as anyone out there. gallons of ice cream, multiple pizza's, soda out the ears. 13 years of marriage and 2 years after, washboard abs etc.

                            when it finally hit her that I was NOT coming back. she ballooned up 100 pounds... all things being equal. it was not her diet that changed.

                            be happy you are here, you could be part of the unwashed masses
                            Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                            Predator not Prey
                            Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                            CW 315 | SW 506
                            Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                            Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

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                            • Wow, that's quite a leap you took. I'm saying that for every person you look on with judgment, there's someone out there who looks upon them with love. Maybe if people focused on finding the thing that is loved in all people, they'd make the world a more awesome place. Maybe just maybe if you could see what there is to love in someone who is fat, you would be kinder to yourself as well.
                              Sorry, I did not get your message in the post.
                              I don't look on anyone with judgment, just onto myself. My husband is overweight and was overweight when I met him, and I love him. I also love myself. Doesn't prevent me from working on my husband's meals hoping he loses weight because the prospect of early widowhood is not appealing.
                              Last edited by Leida; 08-29-2012, 06:59 AM.
                              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                              • There's a saying that whenever you point a finger at someone else, three fingers are pointing back at you. I would suggest that next time any of you point your finger at a fat person in judgment you take a moment to examine your own self-hatred. Is there some area of your own life where you feel a lack of control?
                                Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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