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Why are people so concerned with weight-loss?

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  • Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
    No, there's no excuse at all. The internet is even free at the library. People no longer have any excuse to not know things.

    I'm not superior, I never would claim that. Just more persistent at finding answers because I know their value. Not everyone seeks answers, and they are choosing poorly, hence they are morons. Abject, intentional, self-made fools, if you will.

    For all I know, and for our planet's sake, it's "superior" to get fat and die obese and legless at 55 years old. We are "inferior" for being irresponsible and wanting to occupy this planet for twice as long as others will. It's all perspective.
    No, I think you mistake what I mean.

    There is not one answer to "the fat problem" on the Internet. There are approximately a bajillion of them. Many of them are mutually contradictory, many of them appear to have legitimate science backing them up, and many of them have dozens of testimonials by people who have tried Diet X and Exercise Program Y and been turned into lean, sexy people. Most of them have an attractive and charismatic guru expounding the benefits of their program and selling affiliated products. Sound familiar? The PB is not even close to being the only reasonable answer someone could come across, even if they are honestly looking. That doesn't make them morons. It just means they haven't been fortunate enough to find something that works for them yet.

    And PB doesn't work for everyone, either! It's not the answer to every problem, and I think it's extremely arrogant to call someone stupid, simply because they may have a harder (or just different!) experience with weight loss than you have.
    Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

    My Primal Journal

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    • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
      No, I think you mistake what I mean.

      There is not one answer to "the fat problem" on the Internet. There are approximately a bajillion of them. Many of them are mutually contradictory, many of them appear to have legitimate science backing them up, and many of them have dozens of testimonials by people who have tried Diet X and Exercise Program Y and been turned into lean, sexy people. Most of them have an attractive and charismatic guru expounding the benefits of their program and selling affiliated products. Sound familiar? The PB is not even close to being the only reasonable answer someone could come across, even if they are honestly looking. That doesn't make them morons. It just means they haven't been fortunate enough to find something that works for them yet.

      And PB doesn't work for everyone, either! It's not the answer to every problem, and I think it's extremely arrogant to call someone stupid, simply because they may have a harder (or just different!) experience with weight loss than you have.
      +1

      There are plenty of people on this board who are still struggling despite being primal because their issues may be more complex or maybe standard primal doesn't work for them well. Not everyone has an easy time losing fat, and I know at least one woman who gained significant weight on high fat paleo despite the people who claim that's impossible.
      “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

      Owly's Journal

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      • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
        I love it when young lil' know-it-alls dismiss everyone as in the same boat, including those dealing with years of chronic illness, in one fell swoop! And feel superior while doing it too...

        Yay!
        +1000

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        • I'm not talking about outliers with genuine chronic ailments. I'm talking about when I go shopping and can't get through the aisles because 9 out of 10 people at too fat to walk past. Total BS. There's no way you can pretend the obese masses are ALL afflicted with such issues. I look in their grocery carts. Nothing but frozen pizzas.
          Crohn's, doing SCD

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          • Originally posted by Leida View Post
            Why do we do that? Trying to put those girls down? From time to time there are pics in the magazines of the stars and models without make up that try to make them look as ugly as possible. Is not it the same as the Real Curves campaigns with XXXXL only backwards?
            I don't mean to put them down, just saying that most men I know, when seeing a woman with that body composition in real life, are not sexually attracted to her. And yet our society holds that body composition up as the ideal of feminine beauty. It just doesn't make sense.

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            • Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
              I'm not talking about outliers with genuine chronic ailments. I'm talking about when I go shopping and can't get through the aisles because 9 out of 10 people at too fat to walk past. Total BS. There's no way you can pretend the obese masses are ALL afflicted with such issues. I look in their grocery carts. Nothing but frozen pizzas.
              Pictures or you are lying. I'm serious.

              In Fathead, at the beginning, he's got the standard clips of fat people walking down the street like you see on any TV news station about to air something about obesity. He said it took him hours and hours to get enough clips of fat people for his film. The truth of the matter being that most people are not that fat.

              Next time you go to the market I want a count of exactly how many people out of how many were too fat to walk past and I want to see a picture of anyone who has only frozen pizza in their cart who isn't a 22-year old college kid with a nice physique on his way to the beer aisle.
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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              • My wife and I point and comment if we see a thin person. It's bad here.
                Crohn's, doing SCD

                Comment


                • I think there are a few things:
                  1. Dissatisfaction with weight. The obese shopper blocking the aisle needs to lose weight for health's sake. We can look and identify the people who need to lose weight for health- their weight hinders them.

                  2. Dissatisfaction with body type. If you are an hourglass or athletic..... and want to be willowy, it likely won't happen without work that may jeopardize your health. If you are hourglass and don't get to lean athletic, it does NOT mean you are not optimizing your health. Non-lean people can be very fit and active and healthy.

                  3. There is nothing wrong with wanting to acheive a low body fat and working towards it, but assuming that people who don't have that goal are somehow unhealthy is ridiculous. To me, SB Hikes at 25% body fat has an amazingly healthy looking body and uses the hell out of it with her hiking. I don't for a minute that her being at 18% bodyfat would be a health, or even an aesthetic improvement.

                  4. Aesthetics are individual. If your idea of sexy are lean legs, and you have thunder thighs..... well, learn to love to something else on yourself. I do hate my thighs and arms. But damn, I love my ass, boobs and waist. I have no idea why fat never leaves my thighs, but you know what, I throw on a long sleeve V-neck wrap dress and say fuck it.

                  5. To knifegill.... none of the people posting here are blocking the aisle at the grocery store at 22% or 25% body fat. LOL..... those people are more like 55% body fat.

                  6. It is hard to get to a flat tummy.... for some people.... and life can get in the way. There is nothing wrong with settling for some belly fat or jiggly thighs if you are healthy. There is no reason to expect fit, healthy people with slightly higher than recommended body fat to go to great lengths to lose it. There is a big gap between the guy with non-defined abs and the gal with cut legs and the woman at the grocery too large to walk. That gap consists of a lot of really healthy bodies in a range of shapes and sizes, from very thin to " a little plump".
                  7. You don't need to be lean to be athletic. I ran a marathon.... hell I WATCHED people FINISH ironman with jiggly thighs and beer bellies in front of lean people.
                  8. If you can be lean, GREAT. But if it becomes too much of an obsession or you can't make it happen in a healthy way, it might be worthwhile to love yourself with a little extra fat.

                  http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                  Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                  • Oh, I agree. Health over leanness! And all your criticisms have weight and spawn obvious if's and but's that we could go on for pages about.
                    Crohn's, doing SCD

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                    • Hey Knifegill what % BF do you suppose a person transfroms from being a complete moron to an intelligent human being?
                      Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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                      • It's not about that. Why U pretend? I'm not your straw man. Burn someone else.
                        Crohn's, doing SCD

                        Comment


                        • I have to agree with Knifegill here.

                          I mean, ultimately, EVERYONE has excuses why it's hard to lose weight and stay in shape and blablabla. What makes the difference is whether you use the hardships in your life to progress and become better/more resilient/tougher or just curl in a ball and complain about how hard and unfair life is. And the hell with ''well some people have it easier than me, so I'll just do nothing and lower my standards for myself because it's much easier this way''. No one said it was supposed to be a fair race. Deal with it, keep on going, give everything you've got and please stop complaining.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                            It seems to me that broadly speaking, the men in this thread all prefer the muscular or curvy legs while the women prefer the skinny legs.

                            Please indulge me with a thought experiment. In one of the chapters of Sex at Dawn it talked about the difference between men and womens sexual responses. The researchers showed men and women (of various sexual persuasions) pictures of a variety of sexual scenarios (male-male, male-female, female-female, bonobos etc). They ALSO wired them up so they could see what their brain responses were. Then the subjects were asked them which scenarios aroused them.

                            What they found was that with men, their reported arousal and their brain arousal were the same. Men were turned on by any picture that contained their sexual target (e.g. a woman if they were hetero, or a man if they were gay).

                            What they found with women was... more complex. Basically women consistently gave the 'conventionally correct' answer verbally (e.g. liking the pictures with naked men in them if they self-reported as hetero), but their brain responses had little to no correlation with their verbal answers. Basically they gave the answer that they thought was right for a person like them, rather than what they actually thought.

                            Could something like that be happening here? Women-in-this-thread, if someone wired your brain up, and could detect what you *actually* think about those legs, which do you think you would like more? Would your 'brain' answer match the 'correct' answer of the skinny legs?
                            This is an interesting question... not sure I can answer the question, precisely. But I do have a few thoughts.

                            I am not attracted sexually to women. However, I find the look of some women to be aesthetically pleasing. What I find aesthetically pleasing in women is perhaps a little related to what I find attractive sexually in men.

                            By that I mean... I am not attracted to fat and chubby bits! I like lean, muscular men (not body builder types, but toned) and what I find aesthetically pleasing in women is also lean and toned (again not bulging muscles everywhere... just toned). I prefer the slim, toned legs than the larger ones. Women who are lean, toned, athletic appeal to me aesthetically far more than women who are "curvy" do. I particularly hate the look of chunky legs (oh err and guess what my legs look like??? ). I also hate the look of flabby bellies etc.

                            I have analysed this, because there was a time when I believed that what men found attractive was what *I* assumed to be attractive. It's only been the past few years that I've really questioned this (when I was younger I genuinely believed that if I ever got intimate with a man, and he touched my belly, he would literally RECOIL IN HORROR because it wasn't flat...and there's still a part of me that's really paranoid when it comes to body fat on myself).

                            So I don't know if my own personal experience/observation relates completely to this study... but I do think that our aesthetic preferences for our own gender may relate to our sexual preferences for the other gender (or whatever the case may be depending on your sexual preferences).

                            As for being turned on by images etc. I think women's brains are just a bit more complex, I dunno. I know that most women seem to be less visually stimulated than men. Seeing an attractive naked male doesn't immediately turn a woman on the way that seeing an attractive naked woman does to a man. There's usually an emotional component too... maybe that's one of the faults of the study, is that for women to be sexually excited there has to be more to it than just images?? So the women in the study, knowing that something's "expected" of them, respond in a way that they think is correct, even though they're not actually feeling it.

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                            • Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                              I'm not talking about outliers with genuine chronic ailments. I'm talking about when I go shopping and can't get through the aisles because 9 out of 10 people at too fat to walk past. Total BS. There's no way you can pretend the obese masses are ALL afflicted with such issues. I look in their grocery carts. Nothing but frozen pizzas.
                              If they are too large to pass by then they are not healthy.
                              You assume people gets fat because they want to, or because they're morons, or because they're sloths or because they're gluttons -or maybe all of that mixed in different proportions.
                              I think you are wrong.
                              People gets fat because most of what they know about health and nutrition is wrong, and most of what they know is been taught in universities and comes from their own doctors so I really don't feel like blaming a weekly pizza on them: those are after all healthy accepted carbs. The SAD prescription includes carbs enough to fuel my whole week and only a fraction of the calories I need: I would be obese and nutritionally deficient if I followed advice like that, and maybe they are exactly at that.
                              Here in Italy things are not as bad as in the United States but you have the golden boys of nutritional science (call it that way) preaching grains and starch in TV and candidly advising an ice cream at lunch in summer is a perfectly reasonable and healthy choice. Then wonder how comes children with T2D are doubling their number and obesity rates in teens are terrible.
                              Nobody CHOOSES to get fat, unhealthy, diabetic and disabled; they end up like that because they are genetically, socially, economically or educationally more vulnerable to situations which lead to obesity and its complications.
                              I only feel grateful to people who helped me -and keeps on helping me- regain health and hope I'll be able to do the same for others, judging others because of their size I just find it a waste of time.

                              Luce
                              No limits, only my will and the worlds I build.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                                Hey Knifegill what % BF do you suppose a person transfroms from being a complete moron to an intelligent human being?
                                Good one.
                                Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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