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  • #91
    Originally posted by saturnfan View Post
    I'm just pointing how easy it is to pick and choose your protests. How many current "protesters" of Chick-fil-a had even stepped foot in their restaurant before arbitrary choosing to now boycott it?

    Like most things, convenience always wins over conviction. If it makes you feel good to not eat crappy fast food, good for you. But that doesn't change the fact that most peoples beliefs are ultimately riddled with contradiction.
    You should post more often
    Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
    Starting Weight: 294 pounds
    Current Weight: 235 pounds
    Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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    • #92
      Originally posted by kenn View Post
      You should post more often
      Haha thanks Kenn, I always enjoy your posts too when I get a chance to log in.
      Started 9/5/11 at 212lb
      Last weigh in 12/10/11 at 188lb
      Goal: 160

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      • #93
        Arab countries put homosexuals to death, and yet I see everyone is still driving their car today. Who cares if Chick-fil-a wants to support traditional marriage.
        Yeah. I have a little old car with a ten gallon tank that I probably fill 4x per year. I recently read a magazine article (paper!) that was an op ed piece on how this woman felt guilty on vacation because "up in the mountains," she had to get in her car to go just about anywhere whereas in the city, she used mass transportation or walked everywhere, belonged to a co-op where she go cheap(er) organic meats and produce, etc.

        Also, (and this is crappy of me), I figure my generation tried to get things righted. I remember living in a community in the 70s where we paid extra for a recycling dumpster. "Them danged hippies" pushed for energy independence and were summarily shut down as radicals who wanted to put those wonderful oil producers out of business. So, now I'm old. And I have no kids, which means I didn't create any more little polluters. If you want to get things moving, don't look to me. Rub my feet and bring me some boiled shrimp.
        "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

        B*tch-lite

        Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by saturnfan View Post
          Arab countries put homosexuals to death, and yet I see everyone is still driving their car today. Who cares if Chick-fil-a wants to support traditional marriage.
          Well, for starters, the phrase "support traditional marriage" is wingnut-speak for "use every means at our disposal to restrict the freedoms we enjoy only to people who think and act like us". If "support traditional marriage" actually meant doing nothing more harmful than simply expressing views or supporting organizations working for the promotion of the institution, I wouldn't have any issue with it besides probably thinking it was a little narrow-minded. But what these organizations are actually doing, by and large, is lobbying and campaigning to restrict the freedoms of people they disagree with ideologically. They are pushing for the passage of laws and amendments that would encode their religious beliefs into secular law. They are also lying on a massive scale, claiming that gay marriage harms society while providing no evidence whatsoever--in fact ignoring or contradicting the evidence that is available from countries that already have legal same-sex marriage, where no harm has befallen straight marriages or religious freedom or society as a whole. Since I believe very strongly that restricting the freedoms of other people without demonstrating that the exercise of those freedoms leads to harm is unjust and morally wrong, I also feel very strongly about opposing groups that engage in that kind of behavior.

          As for the hypocrisy inherent in driving a car when you oppose the actions of some oil producers, there are several key differences between the two situations. One, driving a car and otherwise using petroleum is central to getting along in American society. In most places it is impossible to engage in nearly any meaningful commercial or social activity without using oil in some form. Two, it is impossible to know where the gasoline in my tank actually came from, oil being a fungible, internationally-traded commodity with an opaque (to the consumer) chain of supply and distribution; and, in fact, aside from eschewing the entire machine altogether and living in the woods wearing animal skins, there is no way for me to ensure that I am buying gasoline only from countries whose actions I support. Chick-fil-A, on the other hand, is one provider in a sea of choices when it comes to fast food, and so I am capable of voting with my dollars in an informed manner that is impossible while buying gasoline.

          The bottom line is that I don't fault people for hypocrisy when they have no good options--I would pay a premium for "cruelty-free" gasoline and plastic, but such products do not exist, and avoiding the whole market would have unacceptable impact on my quality of life and social participation. When it comes to fast food we have more options and more knowledge, and are therefore more responsible for the choices we make.
          Last edited by Uncephalized; 08-02-2012, 10:52 AM.
          Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

          My Primal Journal

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          • #95
            Originally posted by saturnfan View Post
            I'm just pointing how easy it is to pick and choose your protests. How many current "protesters" of Chick-fil-a had even stepped foot in their restaurant before arbitrary choosing to now boycott it?

            Like most things, convenience always wins over conviction. If it makes you feel good to not eat crappy fast food, good for you. But that doesn't change the fact that most peoples beliefs are ultimately riddled with contradiction.
            Husband was eating there for lunch at times because of convenience when working. He no longer does/will.
            He has decided to move his business to a locally owned business nearby instead.
            He already ate there... he just may be there more often now.
            Plus he and a friend checked out a new local business that they hadn't eaten at before to throw into the rotation.

            We needed to replace our old daily use vehicle, we bought a fuel efficient hybrid that gets over twice the mpg.

            Life isn't perfect... You do what you can.
            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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            • #96
              In the 60's, John Lennon in an interview made the statement that the Beatles were bigger than Jesus. Christians went absolutely crazy! They held public Beatle record and memorabilia burnings, boycotted radio stations and made death threats to the band and John. So much for supporting free speech.

              No one likes being told what they can or cannot do, and no one likes it when their beliefs are challenged. CFA can speak out against the gay lifestyle, and gays can protest it, and Christians can protest the gay protesters, and so on. It's all "free" speech, right?

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              • #97
                Wasn't the whole point to support Chick Fil A an effort to stick a thumb in the eye of Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel? If a public official can use corrosion against one company like this it can do the same to your business.

                Since some are down on the oil business and I'm in that business you can hate me
                Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by ELizabeth826 View Post
                  Kestral, I am so incredibly sorry that this happened to you. I even begin to understand how a person could not only survive but come to thrive after such experiences.
                  Me too, kestral. Your posts made me very sad. Big hug.

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                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                    Well, for starters, the phrase "support traditional marriage" is wingnut-speak for "use every means at our disposal to restrict the freedoms we enjoy only to people who think and act like us". If "support traditional marriage" actually meant doing nothing more harmful than simply expressing views or supporting organizations working for the promotion of the institution, I wouldn't have any issue with it besides probably thinking it was a little narrow-minded. But what these organizations are actually doing, by and large, is lobbying and campaigning to restrict the freedoms of people they disagree with ideologically.
                    But is it not Chick-fil-A's "freedom" to support organizations that want to lobby congress for religious laws? You can't have it both ways if your going to arbitrarily throw everything under the sun into a generic pile of rights and freedoms. It seems to me that you would also like to restrict Chick-fil-A's "freedom" to engage in this activity, because of a political opinion.

                    As for the petroleum/gas comment, you have the obvious point that avoiding such products is difficult in today's society. But it still boils down to the root point, convenience over conviction. It's easy for you (or any hypothetical person) to boycott Chick-fil-A because there are a myriad of fast food joints to choose from. The gasoline example, while extreme, was meant to make a much simpler point; that one can boycott a shitty fast food restaurant, self-righteously pat themselves on the back and then declare themselves a civil rights leader. But oops, nothing was really accomplished.
                    Started 9/5/11 at 212lb
                    Last weigh in 12/10/11 at 188lb
                    Goal: 160

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                    • Originally posted by KestrelSF View Post
                      I survived, but I paid a price. When I appeared in a newspaper my family tossed me out and I had to make it on my own as a teen instead of going to college. I had to wait until I was past the age they had to count my father's income before I could get any sort of financial aid because my father refused to fill out the paperwork. Or answer the phone. Or letters. Or Christmas cards. Or even come to my college graduation. I've given up.

                      So go queue up for your chicken and pretend you are doing it for "freedom". One friend from those youth group days posted today "I don't think you're a bigot because you eat at Chick-fil-A. I think you're an asshole because you're bragging about it." and that's how I started off when I saw that thread. But no, I'm just gonna say that if you actually got into your car and queued up for your chicken just to make a point, then yeah, wear that bigot badge proudly. Just remember: when some get gets bullied, beaten up or kills himself, you helped make that happen.
                      QFT.
                      Kestrel, I am so sorry for what you and countless others have been put through. Let's hope the next generation does a better job of being kind to each other and respecting each other's rights.

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                      • have never eaten in a chick-a-whatsis and only recently saw on the news that there are any in my state. why mouth off about boycotting a place i have never been, nor will ever go? i do try to speak with my wallet and spend my dollars locally. i shop in the local markets, we don't go to wal-mart and we frequent locally-owned places for food and entertainment. i realize that is easier in my area than in some others.

                        the mucky-mucks of any company are as entitled to freedom of speech as those of us here. that being said, this company actively donates many millions of company dollars to anti-gay groups. some businesses may donate $$$ to both republicrats and demicans to grease both sides of the wheel, i don't see the chicken peeps writing checks like that.

                        i live in the first state to allow gay marriage. the horsemen of the apocalypse have not yet galloped through the commonwealth nor has it rained locusts. hetero-marriages aren't collapsing. BUT hundreds of millions of dollars have been pumped into the economy through this new sector of people in love who hope to be together forever.

                        a few weekends ago, i attended the wedding of some lesbian friends. another guest and i were actually crying over the fact that we all are lucky enough to live someplace where that day could come to pass.
                        As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                        – Ernest Hemingway

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                        • Originally posted by saturnfan View Post
                          But is it not Chick-fil-A's "freedom" to support organizations that want to lobby congress for religious laws? You can't have it both ways if your going to arbitrarily throw everything under the sun into a generic pile of rights and freedoms. It seems to me that you would also like to restrict Chick-fil-A's "freedom" to engage in this activity, because of a political opinion.
                          CFA absolutely has a right to support whatever they want. They DON'T have a right to do so without people calling them on it.

                          As for the petroleum/gas comment, you have the obvious point that avoiding such products is difficult in today's society. But it still boils down to the root point, convenience over conviction. It's easy for you (or any hypothetical person) to boycott Chick-fil-A because there are a myriad of fast food joints to choose from. The gasoline example, while extreme, was meant to make a much simpler point; that one can boycott a shitty fast food restaurant, self-righteously pat themselves on the back and then declare themselves a civil rights leader. But oops, nothing was really accomplished.
                          Still a ridiculous position. Basically you're saying that no one should boycott anything unless they boycott everything. This strikes me as self-righteous apathy.
                          Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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                          • Originally posted by saturnfan View Post
                            But is it not Chick-fil-A's "freedom" to support organizations that want to lobby congress for religious laws? You can't have it both ways if your going to arbitrarily throw everything under the sun into a generic pile of rights and freedoms. It seems to me that you would also like to restrict Chick-fil-A's "freedom" to engage in this activity, because of a political opinion.
                            You're erecting a strawman. No one in this thread has said they don't have the right to say or donate where they want to. We're just saying we don't have to support their bigoted, wrong-headed, hateful behavior.
                            Steph
                            My Primal Meanderings

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                            • Originally posted by saturnfan View Post
                              But is it not Chick-fil-A's "freedom" to support organizations that want to lobby congress for religious laws? You can't have it both ways if your going to arbitrarily throw everything under the sun into a generic pile of rights and freedoms. It seems to me that you would also like to restrict Chick-fil-A's "freedom" to engage in this activity, because of a political opinion.
                              Not once have I expressed the opinion that I don't think CFA should be allowed to use their money in any way they see fit, nor have I suggested or insinuated that I think any legal action should be taken against the corporation or any of its employees, owners or executives. I said exactly the opposite, in fact, so I have no idea where this came from. Not giving them my money and encouraging others not to give them theirs is not restricting their freedom of expression in any way.

                              Originally posted by saturnfan View Post
                              As for the petroleum/gas comment, you have the obvious point that avoiding such products is difficult in today's society. But it still boils down to the root point, convenience over conviction. It's easy for you (or any hypothetical person) to boycott Chick-fil-A because there are a myriad of fast food joints to choose from. The gasoline example, while extreme, was meant to make a much simpler point; that one can boycott a shitty fast food restaurant, self-righteously pat themselves on the back and then declare themselves a civil rights leader. But oops, nothing was really accomplished.
                              No one is declaring themselves anything. Boycotting a restaurant is not a radical political move, it's a simple, small decision that makes a correspondingly small difference. I was arguing that it is unreasonable to hold people to standards of consistency that would require them to give up their livelihoods; to normal human beings putting food on the table, etc. is more important than ideological purity, especially where there are responsibilities to dependents and/or a real lack of viable alternatives. You want to fault people for not being moralistic robots disinterested in the personal consequences of their decisions, and I don't.
                              Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                              My Primal Journal

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by KestrelSF View Post
                                Back when I was a teenager growing up in Virginia in the 80s, a few of us got together and started a gay youth group. We first started meeting in what was essentially an abandoned building because no one else would have us. The local gay paper gave us a small ad each month and I volunteered to put my phone number for a contact number in it. I wasn't prepared for it. Not at all. One of the phone calls a 17yo was calling telling me that his dad, who was "general patton", saw something on the news about "those gays" and said that he would wish his son was dead than one of "them". As he was talking I heard this faint metallic sound and I finally figured it out and just yelled at him to put the revolver down. Kinda startled him cause he did. He's still around, started coming to meetings, but there was another one that called me I didn't manage to talk off the ledge. When reading about it in the paper, I was the only person that knew why he shot himself with a shotgun. I was the only person he ever told. Still haunts me to this day.

                                So yeah dude, oh really. In my own lifetime, in my own experience, someone I knew picked up a shotgun and shot himself in the face because he couldn't handle all the homophobic BS handed out to him over and over and over from folks like the ones you see queued up to get their frakkin chicken.

                                For y'all, it's just your opinion. In this day and age, just one more thing to argue about on the internet pretending you have any bloody clue what you are talking about with your fine talking points or your political arguments hashed out yet again. To the kid growing up back where I come from, watching TV with his family, watching the bigots queue up to get their chicken to make a point about their bigotry pretending it's about "Freedom" and hearing his dad say "if it was my son..." I'm telling you it's yes really a matter of life and death.

                                I survived, but I paid a price. When I appeared in a newspaper my family tossed me out and I had to make it on my own as a teen instead of going to college. I had to wait until I was past the age they had to count my father's income before I could get any sort of financial aid because my father refused to fill out the paperwork. Or answer the phone. Or letters. Or Christmas cards. Or even come to my college graduation. I've given up.

                                So go queue up for your chicken and pretend you are doing it for "freedom". One friend from those youth group days posted today "I don't think you're a bigot because you eat at Chick-fil-A. I think you're an asshole because you're bragging about it." and that's how I started off when I saw that thread. But no, I'm just gonna say that if you actually got into your car and queued up for your chicken just to make a point, then yeah, wear that bigot badge proudly. Just remember: when some get gets bullied, beaten up or kills himself, you helped make that happen.
                                The fellow that I quoted equivocated participating in a democracy with murdering people. I take no joy in your life's difficulties, but if you, too, feel that someone who uses the political system to opposes same-sex marriage is a murderer, you too are full of shit.

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