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  • Originally posted by patski View Post
    I didn't get married by a 'minister' of any church, either. I was married by an 'officiant' who is not affiliated with any church.

    Marriage is not a religious institution. If some people think it is, because THEIR minister is from xyz church, then so be it.
    Hey thats cool for you. Its either or all of the following: social, legal, or religious. Unless you can think of any other category.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by patski View Post
      I don't know, man. I'm arguing semantics again. But language is extremely powerful, and we attach meaning, great meaning in fact, to words. No, I don't care what some inbred twat thinks, but 'civil union' doesn't sound right.
      Oh, I totally get that. I call my wife my wife because 'life partner' or whatever sounds lame as shit. I'll be honest, it bugs me when homosexuals use the word partner. I want to say, "Dude, that is your husband!" Partner sounds like a business agreement not the love of your life. Not that is it my place to tell anyone what to call anyone. It is just a personal opinion.

      I meant dropping the word marriage on a political level. As many people do still get married in churches and many see marriage as a church thing (see Cori's comment) then many object to gay marriages as it conflicts with whatever religious view they have, but what religious argument is there against two (or more) adults entering a legal contract? Seems to me there isn't any. So get married all you like to your wife/husband/partner/whatever but get it legal by whatever means necessary even if it means calling a banana an apple.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by patski View Post
        No church wants me there. I tend to piss 'em all off. You can't be gay and know more about the Bible than they do.

        LOL! @ the kid who married his pillow.

        "Hey ya'll! I just had a civil union with my partner of 9 years! WOOWOO!"

        "We just came back from honeymoon after our civil union"

        "We just got engaged and our civil union is on the 20th of July"

        I don't know, man. I'm arguing semantics again. But language is extremely powerful, and we attach meaning, great meaning in fact, to words. No, I don't care what some inbred twat thinks, but 'civil union' doesn't sound right.

        Thank you very much for your kind wishes
        What churches have you been going to? Here we have the United Church of Christ (my mother-in-law is a reverend), the Unitarian Church, and several Episcopalian churches, that are open and affirming of gays and lesbians, are active in the outreach communities and fully embrace the true message of God. Any of these churches here would be glad to have you and are open to active dialogues about the teachings of Christ, how we interpret them, and what it means to enact kindness and change in the community. These churches don't preach dogma, they encourage good works, an active questioning, and an interest in the bettering of our community. I'm saddened to hear that some people don't have an opportunity to join a community like this, but then again, as I felt, for many years, maybe some people don't need or want this type of organized worship. Emily Dickinson didn't need a church to feel the connection to the universe, and nor do I, but it is nice to get together with others who want to do good things. Maybe I should just shut-up!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by patski View Post
          It's true. She's good at that

          Thanks.

          I'm just half gay... but I had some very important relationships that I gave up when I was younger due to the pressure of bigotry and fear of discrimination. I have some regrets from that time. Being in a relationship and trying to stay in the closet is not fair to a partner. I eventually located and called two women who were very special to me and apologized to them. They understood, but it was a day late and a dollar short IMO.
          One of them eventually moved to MA and is happily married. We are still in touch on occasion.

          As I get older and care less and LESS about what the world thinks of me personally I find that my passion for trying to find some sort of end to the darkness that so many young gay or LGBTQ people face as they grow older... sometimes that is just trying to throw some facts and logic out into the world and hope that a bit of it sticks to someone who maybe never thought of those things before.
          I don't want them to have to know the fear that I knew.
          I want them to not even know that many people like them used to live in fear.
          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
            Thanks.

            I'm just half gay... but I had some very important relationships that I gave up when I was younger due to the pressure of bigotry and fear of discrimination. I have some regrets from that time. Being in a relationship and trying to stay in the closet is not fair to a partner. I eventually located and called two women who were very special to me and apologized to them. They understood, but it was a day late and a dollar short IMO.
            One of them eventually moved to MA and is happily married. We are still in touch on occasion.

            As I get older and care less and LESS about what the world thinks of me personally I find that my passion for trying to find some sort of end to the darkness that so many young gay or LGBTQ people face as they grow older... sometimes that is just trying to throw some facts and logic out into the world and hope that a bit of it sticks to someone who maybe never thought of those things before.
            I don't want them to have to know the fear that I knew.
            I want them to not even know that many people like them used to live in fear.
            as a bi-sexual woman, married to a man, I understand completely. Only my brother knows I'm bi-sexual, because he's the only one, aside from my husband, who would tolerate me.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
              Guess I don't understand the debate. Gay people are not being stopped from doing shit, just not recognized as being married. Isn't marriage a religious thing? I understand the legal implications, but like noodle pointed out and I'm sure many realize....there are ways to take care of that right?
              If you're straight and American, it's very easy to say, "Well, there are ways to take care of that, right?" when your sexual orientation allows you to take it or leave it. Homosexuals are, in the majority of the USA, barred from it and don't have the option of choosing if they want to get legally married or not. For them, it's completely "not".

              There are gay couples who have been barred from seeing one another when they were sick in the hospital. Gays whose estranged families swooped in to take care of their funeral arrangements, shutting out the lifelong partner. If Sally Ride's partner -- who'd been with her 27 years -- had been male, he'd be getting her federal benefits after her death. But she's not, so she's persona non grata. Thanks, DOMA!

              I knew gays who were married in my former church. They were happy to have their union recognized by God and the priesthood. But they would have been happier if their state had allowed them to get married, man-to-man, and not have to jump through ridiculous hoops to be recognized as a couple. It's just...it's heartbreaking, ya'all. Love is love. I'm so tired of people fighting that.

              Not to mention: can you IMAGINE the boost to the economy if all those FAAAABULOUS weddings were allowed to occur.
              Steph
              My Primal Meanderings

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Rasputina View Post
                What churches have you been going to? Here we have the United Church of Christ (my mother-in-law is a reverend), the Unitarian Church, and several Episcopalian churches, that are open and affirming of gays and lesbians, are active in the outreach communities and fully embrace the true message of God. Any of these churches here would be glad to have you and are open to active dialogues about the teachings of Christ, how we interpret them, and what it means to enact kindness and change in the community. These churches don't preach dogma, they encourage good works, an active questioning, and an interest in the bettering of our community. I'm saddened to hear that some people don't have an opportunity to join a community like this, but then again, as I felt, for many years, maybe some people don't need or want this type of organized worship. Emily Dickinson didn't need a church to feel the connection to the universe, and nor do I, but it is nice to get together with others who want to do good things. Maybe I should just shut-up!
                I have no problem with the United Church; have attended a few of their services, but it bored me to tears.

                I was raised Roman Catholic, attended church for many, many years as a child, and young teen. Then I became a born-again, and attended my brothers Baptist church.

                *shudders*
                A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by canio6 View Post
                  Oh, I totally get that. I call my wife my wife because 'life partner' or whatever sounds lame as shit. I'll be honest, it bugs me when homosexuals use the word partner. I want to say, "Dude, that is your husband!" Partner sounds like a business agreement not the love of your life. Not that is it my place to tell anyone what to call anyone. It is just a personal opinion.

                  I meant dropping the word marriage on a political level. As many people do still get married in churches and many see marriage as a church thing (see Cori's comment) then many object to gay marriages as it conflicts with whatever religious view they have, but what religious argument is there against two (or more) adults entering a legal contract? Seems to me there isn't any. So get married all you like to your wife/husband/partner/whatever but get it legal by whatever means necessary even if it means calling a banana an apple.
                  I'm with you on the 'partner' thing. I've been calling my wife my 'wife' even before we got married. We've been together 9 years.

                  I don't know; I still disagree with changing the status of the word marriage. There are gay people who believe in God (myself included), but aren't even part of a formalized church or institution of any kind. I still call it 'marriage'. Let the bigots kill themselves over it. I don't care.
                  A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                  Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by patski View Post
                    It's true. She's good at that
                    yep

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by patski View Post
                      Um, yes it is. Your point?

                      As a non-American I can't be pissed at such an stupid establishment?
                      no..no..no...I really did like your post. I thought it was very passionate. I am sorry if I offended you. It is just odd to me that someone in another country that allows gay marriage can get feel so much about what goes on in my country. Your post makes my apathy on the topic seem pathetic. I just can't seem to get worked up about people being intolerant. The fellow at Chick-fil-a's opinion really doesn't matter. Even my opinion doesn't matter.

                      The only opinions will matter soon are the Supreme Court Justices. Prop 8 has been sent up to them. Who knows what this particular court will decide. I am very pessimistic about what the possible outcome could be. I can imagine how bad it will be if corporations are considered people with rights and gays are not. I think we will soon see.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by brighthorse View Post
                        The only opinions will matter soon are the Supreme Court Justices. Prop 8 has been sent up to them. Who knows what this particular court will decide. I am very pessimistic about what the possible outcome could be. I can imagine how bad it will be if corporations are considered people with rights and gays are not. I think we will soon see.
                        Wow, what a mind blowing concept... But nobody is trying to allow corporations to get married. Oh wait, mergers kinda do that. And what about gay partners aspiring to form a legal union, if they were to form separate corporations, then they did a merger? This scenario would have more legal backing & legal rights & powers, than gay marriages in all but a handful of USA states. Legal or just plain crazy?
                        "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
                        "Culture of the mind must be subservient to the heart." ~ Gandhi
                        "The flogging will continue until morale improves." ~ Unknown

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by brighthorse View Post
                          no..no..no...I really did like your post. I thought it was very passionate. I am sorry if I offended you. It is just odd to me that someone in another country that allows gay marriage can get feel so much about what goes on in my country. Your post makes my apathy on the topic seem pathetic. I just can't seem to get worked up about people being intolerant. The fellow at Chick-fil-a's opinion really doesn't matter. Even my opinion doesn't matter.

                          The only opinions will matter soon are the Supreme Court Justices. Prop 8 has been sent up to them. Who knows what this particular court will decide. I am very pessimistic about what the possible outcome could be. I can imagine how bad it will be if corporations are considered people with rights and gays are not. I think we will soon see.
                          I was confused, not offended

                          America is still a "Big Mouth Strikes Again" in the world-at-large, even though some people think those days are coming to an end. I'm not one of them. It always baffles me how extreme views are in the US. It's part of the balance, I suppose. But those morons who call themselves "Christians" and display this type of behaviour are the ones that infuriate me the most. Those "Big Mouths" are given too much power. These morons give money to ex-gay organizations. They voice their opinions loud and clear and in doing so, rally the other morons in the US who feel the same.

                          Anyone in this day and age who thinks you can "pray-the-gay-away" needs to get their head checked. They also need a history lesson on certain books of the Bible. Nowhere does the Bible condemn healthy, loving homosexual relationships. These so-called "Christians" really ought to shut up. But they don't. I'm still convinced to this day that anyone who has that big of a prob with us gay folk are seriously repressed homos.
                          A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                          Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by brighthorse View Post
                            I can imagine how bad it will be if corporations are considered people with rights and gays are not. I think we will soon see.
                            Corporations are already seen as people with rights. Psychopathic people, nonetheless.

                            Have you seen the doc "The Corporation"? Excellent, but seriously infuriating.
                            A Post-Primal PrimalPat

                            Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

                            Comment


                            • Originally Posted by wiltondeportes
                              June and Cori, thanks. I figured there were more legal rights.
                              Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                              Yeah, but all that can be taken care of with some forethought as noodletoy eluded to.
                              the papers are drawn. my only family is a mother with dementia in a nursing home, so obvz she will not be overriding any healthcare decisions. as for my b/f, myself and one of his brothers are listed on all the health-care proxy stuff, so we are on the same page.

                              btw, we don't live together either, lol, which everybody thinks is utterly bizarre.

                              when we retire, my may reevaluate our circumstances. financially he is quite sound, so income will not be a problem, but the cost of health care is the monkey-wrench in the ointment.
                              Last edited by noodletoy; 08-05-2012, 04:13 PM.
                              As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                              – Ernest Hemingway

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by patski View Post
                                I don't know; I still disagree with changing the status of the word marriage. There are gay people who believe in God (myself included), but aren't even part of a formalized church or institution of any kind. I still call it 'marriage'. Let the bigots kill themselves over it. I don't care.
                                We need to go beyond just words though. Whatever they call it, government will still be involved and that is the fundamental problem. Government should not be regulating marriage, nor should it be conferring special benefits on "government approved married" persons at the expense of others. Most homosexuals, particularly male homosexuals, don't have the slightest desire to get married. What about single heterosexuals? The idea that just granting homosexuals the same marriage privilege that heterosexuals have will bring about equality is a total crock. What we need to do is get government out of marriage and strike all mention of the word "marriage" from state and Federal statutes. This solution is not only consistent with Civil Rights, but also happens to be the one solution that everybody would be happy with- except maybe the government, which is why it will probably never happen.

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