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  • Originally posted by AmyMac703 View Post
    Front range =/= the West ... at least not anymore. Too many damn Californian transplants yuppifying our shit up =P
    amen! we have the same problem here. but i guess i tend to ignore californians.
    Originally posted by drssgchic View Post
    Well, I can tell you that I am still in awe of all the long, gray hair I see out here. Back east, once you hit a certain age, it gets whacked off at the very least and probably dyed. Heaven forbid you be FEMALE and GRAY!

    I do still have a lot of places to see out here, so the western slope will go on the to-do list
    I love nicely managed gray hair. there's something very powerfully feminine about it.

    the big L-> few of the men I know cook, though my experiences could be insular as well.
    my primal journal:
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

    Comment


    • oh i think it's all shades of ironic. here you have the californians invading the inland regions of the west, probably escaping (in part) the immigrants mostly from Mexico, which is being invaded by Central Americans. well, the invasion of the californians upsets the locals, who complain that they can barely afford the property tax on the homesteads that their ancestors stole from the Natives.
      my primal journal:
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Sihana
        I apologize in part for their behavior. I never understood why people are opposed to assimilation when they move to a new environment.
        What do you mean by assimilation in a new environment? I despise assimilation of culture. I really enjoy meeting the various people in our town that come from other parts of the country/world and bring their unique regional cultures here with them- it keeps things vibrant and interesting. Maybe you mean that you hate yuppies?

        Comment


        • i think newcomers should be careful not to bring the problems that they were hoping to escape.
          my primal journal:
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Jen AlcesAlces View Post
            I'm in Lander WY - kind of central WY, near the Wind River Range. People here, especially the women, are soooo different from other places I've lived. THey are quite independent, fun and active without the cattiness I've seen elsewhere.
            I think I emailed your husband about a ride when I was planning my hike in the Winds. I have a contact for a man and his wife, and his wife's name is Jen and he said you guys just had a baby. I ended up paying the outfitter in Pinedale to park my car at Green River Lakes rather than hike all the way to Towghee (??) Pass and attempt to hitch all the way back to Pinedale. Well worth the money, that's for sure! I was just a little sad my hike was not quite as long as I'd hoped, but it all turned out perfect anyway. Those mountains are so beautiful. Don't think I could live there, though.
            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Saoirse View Post
              oh i think it's all shades of ironic. here you have the californians invading the inland regions of the west, probably escaping (in part) the immigrants mostly from Mexico, which is being invaded by Central Americans. well, the invasion of the californians upsets the locals, who complain that they can barely afford the property tax on the homesteads that their ancestors stole from the Natives.
              I really wish the Latinos would bring more than just their food when they come. I really really want a pair of authentic tire-tread huarache sandals.

              If I was going to flee California it wouldn't be because of the immigrants. It would be because so many places are so much prettier. The desert seems prettier once you get out of the Mojave. The mountains are prettier once you get at least north of the redwood curtain or east of the great basin. Even So Cal beaches are mostly cold and fogged in, at least in Santa Barbara. Looks like we're going to go the whole summer without a summer's day. I went to work today after my nice two-week vacation and on my way out the door I sighed and said, "Time to go back to wearing jackets in the summertime again."
              Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

              Comment


              • well it was certainly a simplification, but the irony is definitely there.

                *some* Mexicans bring poverty, crime, etc. so the Californians move away. yet their voting tendencies start to encourage some of the same problems they wanted to leave. meanwhile, they love the scenery so much that they tear down huge plots of land to build giant houses for a family of 4, encroaching on our beautiful forests. they're also so afraid of *gasp* killing things that there's an uproar when the GFP decides to up the # of hunting licenses for mountain lions, even though they're seen in town with some degree of regularity. of course, the lions are just chasing the deer. and why are there so many deer? ENCROACHMENT and not enough hunting licenses!! that sort of thing.
                my primal journal:
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Sihana
                  Meaning that if I were to leave California and move to Idaho, I would be expected to follow the rules and learn/act the culture of Idaho. If I were then to move from Idaho to Finland, I would be expected to follow the rules and learn/act the culture of Finland. You are able to keep your culture a certain way in your own home environment if you like, but you are not alright in moving to a completely different place, and bringing your own values and trying to change things to how they were in the place you left.

                  It is like our Mexican problem here in SoCal. They come, seeking a better life, and yet they bring their culture here, change nothing about it, and then wonder why their life is nearly the same as it was in Mexico.

                  As for Yuppies.. bunch of spoiled brats. I have seen people of all ages do the above, however. The ones that always are the happiest are the ones that give a little bit and adapt to their new environment.
                  Are the laws of the United States vastly different in California and Ohio? Are you talking about laws or culture? I'm sorry, I'm not personally familiar with the "Mexican problem" of Southern California, and correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't non-Spanish descended Mexicans native to this region?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                    I really wish the Latinos would bring more than just their food when they come. I really really want a pair of authentic tire-tread huarache sandals.

                    If I was going to flee California it wouldn't be because of the immigrants. It would be because so many places are so much prettier. The desert seems prettier once you get out of the Mojave. The mountains are prettier once you get at least north of the redwood curtain or east of the great basin. Even So Cal beaches are mostly cold and fogged in, at least in Santa Barbara. Looks like we're going to go the whole summer without a summer's day. I went to work today after my nice two-week vacation and on my way out the door I sighed and said, "Time to go back to wearing jackets in the summertime again."
                    So true...
                    We spent a year at Vandenburg AFB right next to Lompoc Ca...
                    COLDEST year of my life!

                    Seriously, we turned the heat on when we moved in, about March, and tuned it off when we left, April the following year.
                    I'm not sure the house even had AC...
                    And FOG.
                    Fog until noon...
                    Then sometimes in the evening it came in so thick you couldn't tell if lights were in in the house across the street...
                    NO driving!
                    I wore sweaters the whole year.
                    It got up to maybe 75 in the afternoon for about a week in August.
                    Blergggg.

                    Heading don to SB was actually a warm relief!
                    I like heat too much for that type climate all the time. *she says while sitting in the AC*
                    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Rasputina View Post
                      Are the laws of the United States vastly different in California and Ohio? Are you talking about laws or culture? I'm sorry, I'm not personally familiar with the "Mexican problem" of Southern California, and correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't non-Spanish descended Mexicans native to this region?
                      I had a friend once who looked Mexican and whose father even had an accent. Whenever anyone asked him where he was from, his answer was Texas. They'd always say, no, where were you from originally. TEXAS! He was native Texan. His family had been there before it was part of the U.S. Same went for her mother, only she was Spanish, not Texan. She would have been rich but she was disowned for marrying a native Texan.

                      I wish all those Los Angelenos hadn't ruined Santa Barbara. It used to be so much more laid back. There are still little pockets of what it used to be, but now it's mostly a fake amusement park full of faux Spanish-Moorish buildings and a phony history of our "Spanish" heritage with plenty of boutiques I can't afford to shop in. Ah well. Viva La Fiesta.
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by sbhikes View Post
                        I had a friend once who looked Mexican and whose father even had an accent. Whenever anyone asked him where he was from, his answer was Texas. They'd always say, no, where were you from originally. TEXAS! He was native Texan. His family had been there before it was part of the U.S. Same went for her mother, only she was Spanish, not Texan. She would have been rich but she was disowned for marrying a native Texan.

                        I wish all those Los Angelenos hadn't ruined Santa Barbara. It used to be so much more laid back. There are still little pockets of what it used to be, but now it's mostly a fake amusement park full of faux Spanish-Moorish buildings and a phony history of our "Spanish" heritage with plenty of boutiques I can't afford to shop in. Ah well. Viva La Fiesta.
                        One of our best friends, Paul, is Mexican, of Spanish and Mexican-native descent, both of his parents are from Mexico. They have a lovely two-story historic home in an upper-middle class suburb here. His father owns a painting company. His parents retain their culture, foods, holidays, etc. I'll have to ask him and his family what they think of the "Mexican Problem" in California.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sihana
                          Eh... both.

                          In laws, we are a complete nanny state. I will point you to California Political News for further asshattery, along with our ranking on the Freedom Index.

                          In Culture, you have at least 5 separate base cultures before you even consider culture by race; you have NorCal, Central Valley, and SoCal. All of these are COMPLETELY different in population demographics, jobs, voting tendencies, and values. Then, you add in Coastal California versus Inland California, which is where a lot of the disparity comes in. Coastal California has the most population, but it makes up only 1/4th of our states landmass at most (This is a CCW shall issue map, but it shows pretty much the population densities, anything non-green can be considered coastal california). I do not have official numbers, so I am guesstimating based on county lines. This causes a huge power struggle between the interests of the big cities, who tend to practice more social welfare, and the rural areas, who tend to practice more freedom and personal accountability. Also, the more rural areas tend to have more whites/asians, while the cities have more blacks/hispanics.

                          So, now you get some culture explanation. I live in San Bernardino County, which is one of the worst off in the country for unemployment, and the worst in the state (followed very closely by Riverside County). My city declared Bankruptcy even. 1/3 of all the people in this county are on Welfare and EBT, which matches the demographics of California state as a whole (who have 1/3 of the countries welfare recipients). According to census data, the welfare recipients rose almost in complete sync with the incoming immigrants (who moved from LA in early 2000's during the housing bubble). Our crime rates started jumping, our schools started doing poor, and our property values started dropping dramatically. This was reflected pretty much anywhere else that has an influx of immigrants; it is quite common to pass by a large house now and see 3 separate immigrant families living in that one building.

                          The immigrants were mostly hispanic, but some were asians. Asians seem to take pride in keeping things tidy, and they value school, and don't care for crime as much as hispanics. In speaking with some of the more friendly hispanic immigrants during my time as a Paralegal, I learned a few things: education is not valued, women really are expected to pop out kids, if there is a loophole, they will use it, since after all, they came from countries where corruption was the norm.

                          As for addressing the non-spanish mexican natives, I cannot say much, as many of them were assimilated beforehand. The ones I do know, of who have been here for generations, hold great disdain for the illegals coming in and "ruining their hard work."


                          Finally, as a disclaimer, I hold no ill will toward anyone due to their color or even their culture. I hold disdain for those who break the law and abuse the system at the expense of other people.

                          Edit:
                          I also forgot that as the influx started moving in, a lot of the business owners, the well-off citizens, and retirees started leaving the state, mostly white but of all colors. They took their money with them, and the social programs stopped getting paid into.
                          So, maybe the real problem is poverty? With poverty comes crime. With cities come jobs, at least that's what many immigrants assume, but with close quarters in a city+poverty, crime flourishes. I live in St. Louis. We have been the murder capitol of the U.S. every other year or so. But, immigration is not our problem, at all. We don't get many immigrants. In fact, most of our crime is committed, race on race, in the city, in the most impoverished areas. Our fair city systematically grouped poor people into projects, then neglected them, then blamed them for the resulting decay and crime. Here is a great documentary about our "fair" city : The Pruitt-Igoe Myth, the "Pruitt-Igoe Myth" can also be viewed on netflix.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Rasputina View Post
                            Are the laws of the United States vastly different in California and Ohio? Are you talking about laws or culture? I'm sorry, I'm not personally familiar with the "Mexican problem" of Southern California, and correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't non-Spanish descended Mexicans native to this region?
                            Laws? To an extent.
                            Culture? Absolutely. I've never really been to the deep south, but the American West, Midwest, East Coast, and West Coast are all very different in my experience ... though I tend to take notice of things like that. Politically, socially, philosophically.
                            In Gunnison, Colorado, walk into a bar in December and chances are, someone will be talking about the fresh powder in one of the local backcountry skiing spots ... or even about conditions on one of the trails at CBMR.
                            In Boulder, Colorado, walk into a bar in December and chances are, someone will be talking about his sweet new pair of top-of-the-line skis.
                            See what I'm getting at?
                            Subduction leads to orogeny

                            My blog that I don't update as often as I should: http://primalclimber.blogspot.com/

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Sihana
                              It is a part of it, yes. The link I added at my last post at the end has a much better explanation than I wrote.

                              I do know that criminals are treated better here than those that are not. No matter what, they will get free health care, three meals a day, and a bed to sleep.

                              All in all though, it comes down to two things: Career politicians, and the people who just don't vote anymore. There is a movement to turn California into a part time legislature with 18,000 their max yearly salary. I hope it passes.

                              (added the vid to watch later on my netflix)
                              I have known some ex-criminals who would be starving and homeless without prison, so they commit petty crimes on parole, just to get back into shelter with food. I work downtown, and the largest homeless shelter, aside from maybe Chicago is across the street from my building. Employment is so desperately hard to come by in our city, that some of my fellow former grad students teach college part-time, but still have to hold down 30 hour per week retail jobs. I'm actually lucky to have found a full-time library acquisitions positions in the administration sector, full-time, with benefits, but still fall into the poverty level for salary. This country is broken, and has been for a long time. I don't need to be wealthy, but if getting an entry-level job means that I have to pay back $70,000 worth of education, then I expect to be paid a salary that will enable me a chance to pay it back. But, like I said, I'm a "lucky" one, I don't starve, I rent a nice flat, and even though I am swimming in debt, I'm not starving. I strongly feel that everyone, not just criminals, should have the blessing of health-care and three meals a day. If we want a strong nation, then we should take care to develop strong people.

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                              • Sihana,

                                One thing you forgot to mention is the effect of NAFTA in the 90s and now the War on Drugs on immigration. Working in commercial kitchens I knew plenty of immigrants who were here thanks to NAFTA and every one of them would have rather been in Mexico. Things are a little different now in Mexico; most Mexican immigrants are afraid to go back to Mexico, it's too dangerous.

                                I personally like it when immigrants retain their cultures it makes towns much more interesting. I am a product of parents who thought it was best to assimilate. I wish they'd kept a little more of their cultures, but at the time the thinking was blend in as best you can. My Dad was Apache/Mexican from the barrios of El Paso and he couldn't get far enough away from his background so we kids never had any contact with his side of the family. My mother was an immigrant from Belgium and we had a little more contact with her side of the family.

                                It gets a little old hearing people complain about immigrants. About a year ago I was in Carmel (there's a town where the residents are whiter than white) and I saw some middle class whites holding up signs approving of Arizona's immigrant laws; the funny thing is Carmel would shut down if it weren't for all the immigrants working in the hotels, restaurants and private homes.
                                Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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