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  • #31
    Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
    Hm yeah my urine is usually pretty much like water. And I often sip on water when I'm bored, so I will just drink when I'm thirsty, though I hardly ever am, probably because I'm drinking quite a lot and eat "a lot" of fruit. Just a CW habit
    I used to have the same habit of sipping water out of boredom, so I know what you mean!

    You can deplete your body of electrolytes drinking all the time like that. So ironically, you might actually need some iodine! But you can get plenty by just drinking less water and eating tasty, salty foods. So you can still ignore Grizz.

    You might find that you feel warmer and/or more energetic, too--being low on salts can give you mild hypothyroid symptoms.
    Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

    My Primal Journal

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Lewis View Post
      How about "micturating"? LOL

      micturating - definition of micturating by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


      I'd guess your circadian rhythms are off, if you're waking up to do it.

      Why you do it too much in general, though ...

      I guess it's possible that your very high protein intake is a factor. You were going to take protein powder to Ireland, on the assumption that there isn't enough protein in that island, weren't you? Reminds me of the old Dean Martin joke: they said, "Drink Canada Dry," to him, so he went there and tried do it. (Pardon me for pulling your leg, but you don't seem to mind a joke, so I thought I would.)

      I could imagine that your kidneys would need to eliminate quite a lot of waste nitrogenous material, and maybe that would make you go more often.

      But that wouldn't explain why you have a life-long propensity.

      You could try cutting to back to something more like 100 to 120 grammes of protein per day, which is ample and still likely more than you need, and make that from real food sources (i.e. not powders), and see if that makes a difference.
      The simplest answer is also probably the correct one:
      Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
      Hm yeah my urine is usually pretty much like water. And I often sip on water when I'm bored, so I will just drink when I'm thirsty, though I hardly ever am, probably because I'm drinking quite a lot and eat "a lot" of fruit. Just a CW habit
      This habit is a very easy one to get into, as well as an easy one to break, and it's more than sufficient to explain the symptoms. There is no reason at all to suggest arcane pathologies until the simple and obvious solution fails to produce results.

      An overabundance of protein and high urea output should make his urine yellower/darker, not clearer.
      Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

      My Primal Journal

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
        I used to have the same habit of sipping water out of boredom, so I know what you mean!

        You can deplete your body of electrolytes drinking all the time like that. So ironically, you might actually need some iodine! But you can get plenty by just drinking less water and eating tasty, salty foods. So you can still ignore Grizz.

        You might find that you feel warmer and/or more energetic, too--being low on salts can give you mild hypothyroid symptoms.
        Since yesterday I started adding iodized salt to my meat, according to cronometer I'm extremely low on sodium. Iodized salt is refined right? But whatever really
        well then

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Lewis View Post
          How about "micturating"? LOL

          micturating - definition of micturating by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

          i
          I'd guess your circadian rhythms are off, if you're waking up to do it.

          Why you do it too much in general, though ...

          I guess it's possible that your very high protein intake is a factor. You were going to take protein powder to Ireland, on the assumption that there isn't enough protein in that island, weren't you? Reminds me of the old Dean Martin joke: they said, "Drink Canada Dry," to him, so he went there and tried do it. (Pardon me for pulling your leg, but you don't seem to mind a joke, so I thought I would.)

          I could imagine that your kidneys would need to eliminate quite a lot of waste nitrogenous material, and maybe that would make you go more often.

          But that wouldn't explain why you have a life-long propensity.

          You could try cutting to back to something more like 100 to 120 grammes of protein per day, which is ample and still likely more than you need, and make that from real food sources (i.e. not powders), and see if that makes a difference.
          Wait, I don't get the joke?
          But anyway, I do eat a lot of protein, but not on purpose. It just comes with the high calorie diet. Today for example i ate around 260g protein. BUT together with 360 g fat and 230g carbs.
          I never eat with the intention of "getting protein" I just eat meat, fruit, nuts, veggies, coconut milk, dairy.
          I have never used protein powder but I was thinking on buying it in case I'd only be fed bread and fruit
          well then

          Comment


          • #35
            Gadsie, like yourself, I too have this problem. I'm a young male and have suffered with ~3 visits per night to the toilet at fairly regularly-spaced intervals. I've had ultrasounds of my bladder and my prostate has been checked. What I would say is that I tend to have moderate success when I re-train my bladder; that is, deliberately holding the urge off during the day to strengthen. I can get it down to 1-2 visits per night that way. It does however take a lot of mental willpower and effort. You might want to ask a GP about bladder retraining, or just Google it (the information is the same for all!).

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
              ... I do eat a lot of protein, but not on purpose. It just comes with the high calorie diet. Today for example i ate around 260g protein. BUT together with 360 g fat and 230g carbs.
              I think the logic behind that "but" doesn't really hold up.

              Primal Blueprint 101. The amount of protein you need is best gauged by calculating it from your lean bodymass:

              How to Eat According to the Primal Blueprint | Mark's Daily Apple

              And this is because protein is needed for body repair, so basing the intake on the size of one's body makes sense.

              Accordingly, your needs stay much the same, regardless of your calorific intake.

              If you're eating more protein than you need for body repair then:

              Deamination is the process by which amino acids are broken down if there is an excess of protein intake. The amino group is removed from the amino acid and converted to ammonia. The rest of the amino acid is made up of mostly carbon and hydrogen, and is recycled or oxidized for energy. Ammonia is toxic to the human system, and enzymes convert it to urea or uric acid by addition of carbon dioxide molecules (which is not considered a deamination process) in the urea cycle, which also takes place in the liver. Urea and uric acid can safely diffuse into the blood and then be excreted in urine.
              Deamination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

              If you're eating what sounds like more than twice as much protein as you're likely need for body repair, then you have to excrete the nitrogenous waste in your urine.

              Here is perhaps a possible reason for frequent urination, though it's only a suggestion.

              AFAICT, rations for highly physically active soldiers going back into the Renaissance and Middle Ages frequently allowed a pound of meat (and usually a pound of bread, too). (Whether troops often got the stipulated ration is perhaps another matter.) I'd have thought a pound of meat a day would be enough for anyone.

              Why you're eating quite as many calories as you are seems like something you might want to look into. It doesn't sound like a normal metabolism. It's not as if you're performing high-intensity physical exercise all day in the Arctic or something.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                I think the logic behind that "but" doesn't really hold up.

                Primal Blueprint 101. The amount of protein you need is best gauged by calculating it from your lean bodymass:

                How to Eat According to the Primal Blueprint | Mark's Daily Apple

                And this is because protein is needed for body repair, so basing the intake on the size of one's body makes sense.

                Accordingly, your needs stay much the same, regardless of your calorific intake.
                Protein needs do increase with physical activity level, because more damage is done to muscle and other tissues, and tissue turnover is therefore higher.

                Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                If you're eating more protein than you need for body repair then:



                Deamination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                If you're eating what sounds like more than twice as much protein as you're likely need for body repair, then you have to excrete the nitrogenous waste in your urine.

                Here is perhaps a possible reason for frequent urination, though it's only a suggestion.
                Again, this doesn't explain the high volume/frequency of urine or the fact that his urine is always clear. Drinking too much water does. High nitrogen (urea) content in the blood should simply increase the concentration in the urine, not the total urine volume. I.e. he'd have a normal amount of very yellow pee instead of a large amount of very clear pee.

                Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                AFAICT, rations for highly physically active soldiers going back into the Renaissance and Middle Ages frequently allowed a pound of meat (and usually a pound of bread, too). (Whether troops often got the stipulated ration is perhaps another matter.) I'd have thought a pound of meat a day would be enough for anyone.

                Why you're eating quite as many calories as you are seems like something you might want to look into. It doesn't sound like a normal metabolism. It's not as if you're performing high-intensity physical exercise all day in the Arctic or something.
                He's a (very) thin, (very) active, and growing teenage boy. He's described his daily activities before and they include frequent basketball, biking and other outdoor activities. Couple that with teenage growth and he probably needs as many calories as he can physically stuff down his throat. Teenagers can sometimes require twice as many calories as similarly-sized adults because the demands of rapid growth are so high.

                That said, there's no reason so much of his intake needs to come from meat, necessarily--he might do better with a higher proportion of starches. But that would be something for him to experiment with, not something for us to prescribe to him. He may be taking in more protein than he needs, but it won't hurt him any.
                Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                My Primal Journal

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                  I think the logic behind that "but" doesn't really hold up.

                  Primal Blueprint 101. The amount of protein you need is best gauged by calculating it from your lean bodymass:

                  How to Eat According to the Primal Blueprint | Mark's Daily Apple

                  And this is because protein is needed for body repair, so basing the intake on the size of one's body makes sense.

                  Accordingly, your needs stay much the same, regardless of your calorific intake.

                  If you're eating more protein than you need for body repair then:



                  Deamination - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                  If you're eating what sounds like more than twice as much protein as you're likely need for body repair, then you have to excrete the nitrogenous waste in your urine.

                  Here is perhaps a possible reason for frequent urination, though it's only a suggestion.

                  AFAICT, rations for highly physically active soldiers going back into the Renaissance and Middle Ages frequently allowed a pound of meat (and usually a pound of bread, too). (Whether troops often got the stipulated ration is perhaps another matter.) I'd have thought a pound of meat a day would be enough for anyone.

                  Why you're eating quite as many calories as you are seems like something you might want to look into. It doesn't sound like a normal metabolism. It's not as if you're performing high-intensity physical exercise all day in the Arctic or something.
                  I think I have a normal metabolism, I'm gaining weight. I was underweight for a while so I'm purposefully eating this much. The theories look logical, but if I would keep my calories the same and lower my protein while upping my carbs/fats I think I would eat an unnatural balance of nuts, fruit, butter and such. I'd rather try to imitate "grok" as much as possible.
                  well then

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                    Protein needs do increase with physical activity level, because more damage is done to muscle and other tissues, and tissue turnover is therefore higher.

                    Again, this doesn't explain the high volume/frequency of urine or the fact that his urine is always clear. Drinking too much water does. High nitrogen (urea) content in the blood should simply increase the concentration in the urine, not the total urine volume. I.e. he'd have a normal amount of very yellow pee instead of a large amount of very clear pee.

                    He's a (very) thin, (very) active, and growing teenage boy. He's described his daily activities before and they include frequent basketball, biking and other outdoor activities. Couple that with teenage growth and he probably needs as many calories as he can physically stuff down his throat. Teenagers can sometimes require twice as many calories as similarly-sized adults because the demands of rapid growth are so high.

                    That said, there's no reason so much of his intake needs to come from meat, necessarily--he might do better with a higher proportion of starches. But that would be something for him to experiment with, not something for us to prescribe to him. He may be taking in more protein than he needs, but it won't hurt him any.
                    I think I'm going to try lowering my calories. And i never though I'd ever say this but, I hope I can get by healthily on less calories now. It's getting a little tiring to constantly make sure i have such high amounts of primal foods etc. Plus I guess I'm at 10-12% body fat right now so it won't hurt
                    well then

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Gadsie View Post
                      I think I'm going to try lowering my calories. And i never though I'd ever say this but, I hope I can get by healthily on less calories now. It's getting a little tiring to constantly make sure i have such high amounts of primal foods etc. Plus I guess I'm at 10-12% body fat right now so it won't hurt
                      As long as you don't try to restrict yourself, dude. Listen to your hunger and make sure you get what you need.
                      Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                      My Primal Journal

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                        Protein needs do increase with physical activity level, because more damage is done to muscle and other tissues, and tissue turnover is therefore higher.
                        It's simply downright kooky of you to imagine that an intake of 260 grammes per day of protein could be in any way shape or form necessary for a person who weighs around 140 pounds whatever pretentious "explanations" you attempt to rationalize that with. But carry on providing us with your nonsensical rationalizations, by all means.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                          It's simply downright kooky of you to imagine that an intake of 260 grammes per day of protein could be in any way shape or form necessary for a person who weighs around 140 pounds whatever pretentious "explanations" you attempt to rationalize that with. But carry on providing us with your nonsensical rationalizations, by all means.
                          I never said I thought he needed 260 grams per day. Read more carefully. I was responding to your assertion that the only relevant variable was body size, which it is not. Since you neglected to quote the end of my post:

                          Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                          That said, there's no reason so much of his intake needs to come from meat, necessarily--he might do better with a higher proportion of starches. But that would be something for him to experiment with, not something for us to prescribe to him. He may be taking in more protein than he needs, but it won't hurt him any.
                          I don't know why you are ignoring the relevant parts of my responses and attacking me by taking my points out of context, but it's getting more than a little annoying.

                          EDIT: To be even more clear, my position, summarized, on Gadsie's frequent-urination issue:

                          --he has said he drinks water out of habit/boredom instead of only out of thirst
                          --he has reported that his urine is always clear/colorless
                          --high urea concentration in urine will make urine yellow
                          --high nitrogen output in urine does not increase the liquid volume of the urine
                          --this suggests that his protein intake, while it may be unnecessarily high, is not a factor in his frequent urination
                          --the colorless quality suggests this is a matter of over-consumption of water
                          --the first and most obvious intervention is to drink less water
                          --only after the obvious intervention fails is it reasonable to investigate more convoluted theories
                          --eating "too much" protein is harmless as long as it does not displace other necessary nutrition

                          Anything else you are reading into my replies is coming from your brain, not mine.
                          Last edited by Uncephalized; 07-23-2012, 02:07 PM.
                          Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                          My Primal Journal

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            I'd also like to point out that Gads has stated that he gets full and has problems eating the volume of starches that would be required to get him to the caloric level that he needs to maintain his weight...

                            Being very thin, and growing, I think that this is relevant and that he should not be discouraged from seeking calorically as well as nutrient dense sources of food.
                            Eating that amount of protein isn't going to hurt him.
                            If he tries to replace half of it with foods that have less calories for the same volume, because he has trouble eating higher volumes, he may be faced with being unable to maintain his weight again.
                            He's a growing kid, not a sedentary/moderately active adult.
                            “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                            ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                            And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Gads, remember that fruits and vegetables also contain their fair amount of water.
                              Evee since I went primal I'm drinking less
                              If you kept drinking the same whlle eating more fruits and vegs, that might be it.
                              Everything is bad for something - How do you feel today?

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Kinda OT but your comments are no longer irritating
                                Looks like you passed the stage of freaking out and perfecting everything to teh point of obsession
                                Good on you!
                                Everything is bad for something - How do you feel today?

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