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Primal Women - did cave girls really exercise as much as men?

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  • #16
    Well....women can hunt and fight just fine. We only need a few men around on an intermittent basis to impregnate us, as most of a tribe doesn't need to be simultaneously pregnant and a batch of kids can be quite skillfully watched by one or two people: possibly elder people who can no longer hunt.

    I find most men stunningly useless. They can't or won't clean up after themselves, expect to be waited on and can't multitask for beans. They're just about useful for their penises, and most of them aren't particularly skilled there, either.....

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Figlio di Moros View Post
      So, it took you longer the first time you tried something, than women who've been doing it their entire life? Ever seen an Amish man drive stakes or raise barns from dusk to dawn?
      Yes, i used to live in PA. But, it's usually a group effort, and yes, most of their labor is hard. They also tend to be "sturdier" than other folks (not htat other folks aren't capable of getting sturdy).

      Point was that "primitive" women work hard. Not that men are better than women or women better than men. But, I do believe that the reason why women carry more body fat is so that we are "sturdier" in general. There are certain benefits to it in terms of things like: carrying children to term, nursing them even in times of famine, and being able to do other work besides.

      Honestly, it's not tried, tested and true, btu I think that larger body types -- in general (the endomorph) -- is a sturdier body type than my own (ecto-meso, a bit closer on the ecto side of things). I think that it's more likely to survive famine, is typically stronger (and can LHT for a longer time), and also those folks tend to have a great temperament that seems to make them really resilient. And that's men or women.

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      • #18
        Also, I was making no comment on the "usefulness" or "purpose" of men. I like having men around, and think that they are seriously awesome and useful.

        I was simply pointing out to the OP that "primitive" women "worked out" just as hard as primitive men, so there's no way to "bow out" of PB style exercise just cuz you a girl.

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        • #19
          In most hunter-gatherer societies, collecting firewood and water is women's responsibility. That means a lot of heavy lifting.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Crabbcakes View Post
            Here in this county where I currently live, the biggest compliment you can get is someone describing you as "a good Christian woman".

            Back in the village, the biggest one is "she is always industrious and works HARD".
            Huh, around here the biggest compliment is "clever". Usually accompanied by "bastard" or "bitch" depending on your gender.
            In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Alex Good View Post
              Huh, around here the biggest compliment is "clever". Usually accompanied by "bastard" or "bitch" depending on your gender.
              Might actually be worth a research study - the things that different communities value as expressed in their compliments. I'll have to ask my Amish neighbors what their top compliment sounds like - although with the Amish hugely placing emphasis on "Demut" (humility), it wouldn't really surprise me if they don't really have one.
              I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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              • #22
                The old saying goes 'a man may work from sun to sun, but a woman's work is never done'. Sun to sun meaning sun up to sun down.

                Women in first world countries may have it easier now, but back in the day I imagine the ability to gain & hold weight more easily than men was the only way women could stay upright and functional given all the labor they did.
                Seven Trees Farm - diversified subsistence farming on 1.25 acres.

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                • #23
                  Most women in first-world societies don't have it that easy. In addition to doing the majority of housework and child rearing tasks they also have to hold down a full-time job. A lot of these women succeed in their jobs at a level of perfection and hyper-professionalism that I find completely baffling. None of this may be physically strenuous but it does require a degree of endurance that is quite astonishing. I don't see men having to do anything quite the same. That's not to say that what men have to do is easier because it really isn't, but they can slough off on the housework and child rearing tasks without any societal pressure or inner turmoil.

                  When it comes to ultra-endurance races the gap between the physical achievement of women and men becomes very narrow. Many of the longest ultramarathons are won by middle-aged women. I personally am capable of walking 30 miles in a day, sometimes more, and doing it over and over again for months. I don't even lose much weight doing this. In fact, I'm perfectly capable of gaining fat doing this. Gotta love being an endomorph (that's the biggest one, right? That's me.)
                  Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                    Point was that "primitive" women work hard. Not that men are better than women or women better than men.
                    Didn't take it that way, but the trend overall seemed to be "look how lazy men are programmed to be". Just above you, there's an open misandrist. If I had said "a woman's place is chained to the stove, with just enough slack to reach the bedroom", I wouldn't hear the end of it. However, even the men in here seem to be arguing women are so much more useful.

                    Originally posted by sbhikes
                    Most women in first-world societies don't have it that easy. In addition to doing the majority of housework and child rearing tasks they also have to hold down a full-time job. A lot of these women succeed in their jobs at a level of perfection and hyper-professionalism that I find completely baffling.
                    Maybe it's just where I live, or the social strata around me, but I call bullshit. Yeah, women have to work, too(they can thank the feminists for that one), but they don't always, and "most" women aren't the consummate professionals you imagine. I've seen a few women that appear to be that, and I certainly don't want to take away from any women in here who that does describe, but my own personal experience is quite different.

                    Anyways, I think the point here was that women have a lot more functional strength thanis assumed, or atleast the potential to develop it, not which sex works harder or is more socially useful.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                      I but there seems to be a meme in our culture that men are to be managed and kept in their place by the mentally-superior women "for their own good" or for the good of society, perhaps because we are judged to be incompetent or undesirably unruly. It's not explicitly stated but I hear undertones of it quite frequently even in advertisements and TV shows, as well as in conversation by women and even some men. You see it often in the stereotypical sitcom portrayal of the fat/loud/obnoxious/bumbling husband who somehow married an attractive, articulate and put-together woman who constantly has the upper hand in all disputes while performing with supreme competence in everything she does.
                      most tv writers, especially of sitcoms, are actually men.

                      as a female who prefers the company of men, i find these shows and skits painfully unfunny and utterly non-reflective of real-life.
                      As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                      Ernest Hemingway

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Figlio di Moros View Post
                        The difference is, I've got to listen to women bitch all day about how much men suck, that we're all a bunch of assholes and treat them like shit. Maybe if you lost the weight, didn't feel entitled to drink away mens cash, and weren't a total bitch, men might find you valuable for something other than sex. But if I pointed that out, I'd be the sexist.
                        wow, angry much? this is one of the more hateful misogynistic rants i've seen on the interwebs in a long time.
                        As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                        Ernest Hemingway

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                        • #27
                          I was describing a specific coworker, not women in general. I'm not accusing all women of being worthless, slutty cunts, just saying there's more of them out there than I care to deal with. Though, it's worth pointing out I'm a misogynist for saying something about a specific woman, who complains about men, yet there was a woman on the previous page who literally said "Men are only useful for their penis, and most of them aren't even good at that", and you ignored it. A bit hypocritical, really.

                          Concerning sitcoms, I think it's a reason "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" is so much better than "Fat Idiot married to feminist poster child." Dee's way better than any sitcom wife, because she's much more fallible. See the episode where Dennis convinced her the rapper she was dating was a retard?

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                          • #28
                            I'm not pleased with the portrayal of men in the media, and I do actually agree about how women can be bitches who use people (men and women and what not).

                            But, I also see 'dual economies' at work in many families (a stay-at-home mom and housewife who does *a lot* of work to keep a household going, with a 'breadwinning' husband; or vice-versa; or two-income homes with child care outsourced, or what have you) -- with a lot of mutual respect, care, and waht not. I like to say that's what my married life has been with my husband. For many years, he was the primary breadwinner, now I am. And he is shouldering a lot more home making and child care than I am (though he does work, too). So it's a shared economy and we are both working really hard.

                            We also still both exercise.

                            DH likes to lift heavy, and he does so once a week at the gym, and then another body-weight exercise routine on another day. We both walk and do sprints. DS and I do our parkour. I also practice yoga.

                            The OP was asserting that women don't need to follow PB fitness because ancient women didn't do as much physical labor as ancient men.

                            This is not the case. Often, both parties did a lot of physical work, but their labor was divided by gender in order to get the job done. It was not because women are "better at" fetching water and men are incapable, nor that men are "better at" hunting and women are incapable. It's just how the labor was divided in those communities where it was divided in those ways.

                            But both had very physical work to be done, and so that means that both men and women would benefit from PB fitness equally.

                            Particularly in our largely sedentary society. Having the "freedom" to do PB fitness and see results is great. Instead of the CW that women "have to" work out 2 hrs a day doing chronic cardio and low weights in order to get "toned and not bulky" is an impossible task for a lot of women (and often doesn't work for those for whom it is not an impossible task). Why? Because they are working and running households and what not, and if they have a commute, there goes the two hours they MIGHT have had for such ridiculousness.

                            But PB fitness says: LHT 30 minutes 1-2x week. Sprint 20-30 minutes 1x week. Do a long slow 1x a week. Play as often as you can. I think this is accessible to the modern woman. I think it's accessible to the modern man -- who often is doing the same commute, same day job (and overtime, etc) as women are.

                            It's possible. It's easy.

                            And yes, it will be different. my husband *is* stronger than me, even if we do the same movements. He just *is*. And that's fine and ok. It doesn't mean that I don't get benefit from LHT.

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                            • #29
                              Figlio, I don't think you can "thank the feminists" for women having to work.... women working is just an inevitable outcome of the economic system we live in. Everyone must offer up their labor eventually, senior citizens are remaining in the workforce longer do you think they are there by choice? I know plenty of women (and men too!) who would love to opt out of the labor force. Blaming it on feminists is such a simplistic view of things.
                              Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

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                              • #30
                                Feminism encouraged women back into the workforce; as a result, there was more labor. Companies didn't need to increase wages as much to maintain the necessary supply of labor, so they dropped relatively overtime. As wages dropped, avg. household income dropped. Women who previously chose to work, now needed to. Women who previously chose to be housewives discovered they had to enter the workforce to help cover bills and food costs. Of course, as we shifted to two-income households, there became less time either of the parents could dedicate to children, so costs relative to that went up, too.

                                So, yes, feminism built a system which forced women to work out of necessity. Other trends didn't help, but a surplus of labor doesn't bode well for wages, which doesn't bode well for single-income families.

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