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Dr. Mcdougall rips apart the paleo diet - your thoughts?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Brent* View Post
    ok...but I care about learning what is the optimal diet and if there is research to disprove the paleo/primal diet I'm always curious what it is and what other people think of it.
    Hey Brent, have you checked out Dr. Terry Wahls? You might want to search for some of her stuff on youtube. She's the medical doctor that basically cured her MS by eating paleo, it's a pretty amazing story, and she goes into her food recommendations which, from what I saw, were very primal like (i.e. primal if you're basically healthy, more restrictive paleo if you're not.)

    I didn't read the McDougall article, like everyone else, my response was "who cares". I think that paleo people were able to live well on a range of diets, some were higher in carbs (I can't remember, but there's one group of people that usually gets named as an example here), and others ate almost exclusively meat/fat/animals (i.e. Eskimos). You might also want to check out the Weston Price book on nutrition if you haven't. (The dentist who made a study of many cultures, to see firsthand the effects of different foods).

    I think the key that comes up over and over is, eating natural UNPROCESSED foods is best for your health.

    Oh, and not sure if you saw this... Mark did write about his experience McDougall-ism at one point, and wrote about it here:
    My Escape from Vegan Island | Mark's Daily Apple

    Last edited by jendoe; 07-03-2012, 06:17 AM. Reason: grammar!


    • #17
      Originally posted by Brent* View Post
      am curious what your guys' thoughts are
      My guys are busy undermining various national governments and do not have time to read silly articles.
      You lousy kids! Get off my savannah!


      • #18
        Everybody wants to push their agenda. This Dr. used words like "required" in reference to eating exotic animals (cozy up to PETA much?), and I am sure some do, but I don't see too many going out of their way to eat rattlesnake. I would try kangaroo if it was in front of me, but I am not ordering it from Australia!

        I personally have chosen to eat Paleo because I am fat (87 pounds lost, another 40 pounds to go) and was sick, and at 45 looking at an early grave. Before I started eating Paleo, I had high blood pressure and was boarding on "high cholesterol", now I have a normal BP and a total cholesterol of 170. I still have work to do, but I am on the road to health.

        I have 4 cousin-in-laws who are all vegan, and militant about it. 2 appear healthy enough, the other 2 not so much.

        In the end, folks have to choose for themselves. The info is out there, so you must weigh the pros and cons and put what works best for you in action!


        • #19
          Mcdougal's article is poorly writing and full of very erroneous assumptions.

          The Second article basically promotes a moderate Paleo diet no biggie.

          Vegetables should make up a big part of primal (if you read the book).

          As for the acidity issue grains (esp wheat) raise acidity levels much more than beef so replacing your grain portion of your plate with veg should do the trick. Have you heard the term meat and 2 veg? There is more than a sexual connotation to that phrase it should echo the food on your plate.
          Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
          Don't forget to play!


          • #20
            I stopped reading after

            People become too sick to eat too much.
            Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
            Starting Weight: 294 pounds
            Current Weight: 235 pounds
            Goal Weight: 195 pounds


            • #21
              thanks guys. I'm just trying to play the devils advocate here because I'm curious how people interpret research. Since the research out there is lots of abstracts its hard to read it obviously. A mark sisson response to this article would be cool, just refuting his research and claims. I know the difference between primal and paleo, but reflexively lump them together because they are very similar...relative to the other crap diets out there.


              • #22
                This diet works by starving the human body of carbohydrates in order to induce a state of illness (ketosis), which can result in weight loss.
                Well that's just bull straight off the bat, so I wouldn't put too much credence in the rest of the article either.
                carl's cave


                • #23
                  First article is not worth reading cause it' s a long prologue to author's own diet that by looks of things is incompatible with Paleo. The second (if you manage to read far enough) actually recommends something close to primal - the author basically just summarised what other people within the paleo/primal movement have voiced as the critique of the original paleo... It's actually not a bad summary to use for defining differences between Cordain's original Paleo and its many, more recent "offsprings" that have taken into consideration a lot of drawbacks, like sourcing of meet, attitude to dairy, nuts etc.


                  • #24
                    Pretty amusing read. Cavemen made flour (so you're wrong!), but they were cannibals (so they were bad!), but they ate starch (which is good!). Starches fueled the great conquerers (which is... good?), agriculture marked the rise of civilization (which is good!), animal agriculture is destroying the planet (which is bad! but it wouldn't be happening if not for agriculture), and you'd have to kill 9 of your friends so paleo dieters can have their meat.


                    Basically the only thing he's right about is hunter gatherers getting the bulk of their calories from starch. What he didn't mention is if they didn't hunt to pick up the difference, they never would have survived.

                    This guy's a hyperbolic nutbag. Let's fly him to New Guinea so he can live on starch in the jungle, like a REAL human being. See if he'll turn down a bird liver if it's the difference between life and death.

                    And I'm also unclear if I should be eating sorghum like our more recent grain-loving ancestors or if I should be eating trees like our more distant ancestors, the Australopithecines.
                    Last edited by Timthetaco; 07-03-2012, 08:29 AM.


                    • #25
                      I'm a vegetarian that eats liver and pork bellies and oxtails and fish and muscle meat. What's destroying the environment is people having babies in excess, driving your car everywhere, air conditioning, and shipping your food (wrapped in multiple layers of plastic every step of the way) all the way from South America so you can have strawberries in the dead of a Michigan winter. Not to mention clearing every diverse ecosystem on Earth to overproduce commodity crops and destroying the desert for solar and wind projects. Good luck with your soy burgers, McDougall.
                      Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.


                      • #26
                        McDougall is a vegan and a leader at Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine who in turn are associated with PETA. So there you have people with a militant/religious agenda of promoting vegetarian diet and who tell anyone who will listen that eating meat is unethical and will kill you. I find them ignorant and biased.

                        Regarding the destruction of the planet due to food production: WHY does no one, vegan or omnivore ever realize the destruction of the planet is because there are too many people? People have bred like a plague of rats and no one wants to acknowledge that.

                        Beware of the vegan menace.
                        Last edited by Moochy; 07-03-2012, 09:15 AM.
                        Primal/Paleo is not for everyone, it's for those who have committed to understand.
                        READ THE BOOK! Robb Wolf says: "Trying to convince people to save their own ass will burn you out."

                        Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for -- the pure enjoyment of food. Anthony Bourdain

                        and yes, calories DO count my little piggies


                        • #27
                          "In addition to the usual beef, veal, pork, chicken, and fish, a Paleo follower is required to eat; alligator, bear, kangaroo, deer, rattlesnake, and wild boar are also on the menu. Mail-order suppliers for these wild animals are provided in his book."

                          REQUIRED?!?!?! i didnt read that anywhere hahahahahaha

                          this is the most ridiculous article i have ever skimmed
                          Last edited by JennaRose; 07-03-2012, 09:30 AM.


                          • #28
                            LOL, I couldn't get past the 1st line. Hey you guys! We're destroying the earth with our diets. Last one out turn off the lights.



                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Brent* View Post
                              A mark sisson response to this article would be cool, just refuting his research and claims.
                              You could email him with that request if you want.

                              For myself I don't see that it's necessary to respond every time someone makes a (usually ill-informed and ill-considered) attack on the Paleo Diet or on low carb diets.

                              Why would one? Out of nervousness thinking one was on the wrong track and wanting to reassure oneself?

                              The arguments from evolution, from the evidence of the excellence in health of hunter-gatherer (and some other relatively non-modern) populations, and from biochemsitry are pretty impressive. The case-stories from people who've healed bad -- in some cases supposedly intractable -- conditions with such diets equally so:

                              Watch "TEDxIowaCity - Dr. Terry Wahls - Minding Your Mitochondria" Video at TEDxTalks

                              And besides all that, the evidence for what happens to people when they eat according to current dogma -- high carb, plenty of gluten-containg grains, pasteurized industrial dairy products ("for the calcium" doncha know), excessive quantities of fruit, and "a calories is a calorie" and "a little of what you fancy does you good" and all the rest of it .... well, the results are all around you. To be frank, it means disease and early death.


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by McDougall
                                Only plants synthesize carbohydrates (sugars). The body parts of animals, including red meat, poultry, seafood, and fish, and eggs, contain no carbohydrates. Animal secretions (like mammalian milk) contain sugars synthesized by plants (the cow eats the grass that made the sugar).
                                LOL. Apparently gluconeogenesis doesn't exist, and all obligate carnivores have a blood sugar of zero, or are all secretly eating plants every day when the scientists aren't looking.

                                Seriously, is he claiming that grass contains lactose? Really? What an idiot.

                                That's about as far as I got. I certainly agree that Paleo ought not imply low-carb, and that the anti-carb scare-tactics need to end, because they seem not to be true. However, that doesn't justify painting animal foods (which are excellent foods to eat!) with the same propaganda brush that low-carbers use on rice and potatoes.
                                Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                                My Primal Journal