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  • This annoys me to no end

    Health - Ellen Ruppel Shell - Eschewing Bananas Is Not the Cure to America's Health Woes - The Atlantic

    OK... you know, low fat is probably a great correction for people who overeat fat and meat. BUT MOST PEOPLE OVEREAT GRAINS AND SUGAR. Lowfat does nothing if you are a sugar addict or a wheat addict. I was at a party last night and no one was touching the cheese, there was no meat, but overweight people were stuffing themselves with crackers, cookies and baked goods.

    Meat is not why most people are fat. An over consumption of sugar and wheat is why.

    Ugh, people need to be encouraged to find the way that works for them, not get a lecture on over consumption of meat. I stopped eating meat FOR YEARS. I have now lost over 30 lbs since restarting my meat consumption and ditching grains.

    And I eat bananas. I just ate one!!!!!!

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

  • #2
    I think that the biggest problem is that people think that weat, corn, and sugar are "healthy" sources of carbs. We'd see a big improvement alone if people would stick to tubers like sweet potatoes, yams, carrots, ect. and moderate amounts of fruits.

    And, people need to understand that they should moderate carbs based on activity level as well. That's another concept that slips by 95% of people these days. If you are sedentary, go VLC. If you do some good walking, go LC, if you walk and weight lift, go LC on walking days and moderate carbs on lifting days, if you are a serious endurance athlete, go moderate or high carbs depending on how much you've trained in a given day. Exact numbers, of course, will vary.

    People seem to think that regardless of their activaty levels, they should be eating the same level of carbs daily. We here at MDA know it doesn't work that way. If you don't burn it, it becomes fat. So you adjust your intake to the appropriate level that you think you are burning.
    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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    • #3
      Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
      OK... you know, low fat is probably a great correction for people who overeat fat and meat. BUT MOST PEOPLE OVEREAT GRAINS AND SUGAR. Lowfat does nothing if you are a sugar addict or a wheat addict. I was at a party last night and no one was touching the cheese, there was no meat, but overweight people were stuffing themselves with crackers, cookies and baked goods.

      Meat is not why most people are fat. An over consumption of sugar and wheat is why.

      Ugh, people need to be encouraged to find the way that works for them, not get a lecture on over consumption of meat. I stopped eating meat FOR YEARS. I have now lost over 30 lbs since restarting my meat consumption and ditching grains.

      And I eat bananas. I just ate one!!!!!!
      The healthiest people I see at parties eat most of the same things I do when I look at their little appetizer plates. Lots of veggies and fruit, some cheese but usually no crackers (or only a couple if they take them), some cold cuts, and none of the squares or cookies. It's funny that those people probably don't think of themselves as eating primal or anything like it, but I notice that my most trim friends are the ones who tend to eat less of the breads and baked goodies, even when they might think of themselves as loving those foods. Their portions of them seem to be so much smaller than most.

      And yeah, most people aren't binge-eating meat or eggs. They're eating a whole bag of chips, or boxes of cookies, or whatever like that. Even when people binge on protein/fat foods, they're usually either highly sweetened as well or they're dairy-based like cheeses.

      The headline in itself is right--bananas aren't the problem. I don't think we'd be in this fix if people were eating a lot of fruit.
      “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

      Owly's Journal

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      • #4
        From the article:

        For most people, strictly limiting one food group in their diet -- be it carbohydrates or fat -- also reduces the number of calories in that diet.
        Oh, Brother! She really doesn't understand, does she? It's a kindergarten-level misunderstanding of the problem. And you have to either not know about or close your eyes to much real-world data to maintain that. I don't know which it is in her case: she may be ill-informed but she also has a motive, if she begins to suspect she's been wrong, for hiding things from herself and not admitting to have been wrong all these years.

        One's reminded of Marxist academics even as the Eastern Bloc was collapsing under the weight of its own absurd ideology. Just keep repeating the mantras and hope reality goes away. Meanwhile this is the reality:



        Apparently, the commentators who were, by the sound of it, berating her for some earlier article are confused, too:

        I stand corrected. A diet rich in lean meats, fish, veggies and berries sounds like a very sensible diet indeed.
        So the protein over-consumers were evidently out in force. Dukan Diet? Doesn't work long term: after awhile people can't stomach low-fat-low-carb -- because you can only eat so much lean meat -- and then they go on a carb-binge.

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        • #5
          I was watching a documentry last night on the food industry and how they made us fat with loads of sugar, a rough quote from one of scientists interviewed - we wanted to study obesisty in rats so we needed to make fat rats, we tried giving them fat and they didn't over eat or gain weight so I sent my pHD student to the store to buy the types of food people like to eat, they were all high in sugars, cookies etc, the rats ate and ate these and all quickly gained weight and fat.

          I just wish there was some way to prove that eating sugar is makes you gain weight????
          You know all those pictures of Adam and Eve where they have belly button? Think about it..................... take as long as you need........................

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          • #6
            Originally posted by BurdEmelry
            I don't think we'd be in this fix if people were eating a lot of fruit
            Sugar is sugar. Fruit may be better than refined sugar, because of the water, nutrients, and fiber. But it still fucks with your insulin (unless you're an extreme athlete).

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            • #7
              Yeah that article is a pile. Oh well.

              I wonder when Mark will abandon his "carbohydrate curve". I think it would be a good thing

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              • #8
                “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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                • #9
                  ^Maybe it's my sleep deprivation but that is hilarious.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bosnic View Post
                    Sugar is sugar. Fruit may be better than refined sugar, because of the water, nutrients, and fiber. But it still fucks with your insulin (unless you're an extreme athlete).
                    You're arguing with a spambot.

                    And I don't buy the idea that fruit is anywhere near as problematic as sugar--there are many groups of hunter-gatherers who eat very large amounts of fruit and honey, and they are in good health and not obese or diabetic. But that's the unending argument around here, so I'm not particularly interested in turning this thread into yet another round of it.
                    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                    Owly's Journal

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Owly View Post
                      You're arguing with a spambot.

                      And I don't buy the idea that fruit is anywhere near as problematic as sugar--there are many groups of hunter-gatherers who eat very large amounts of fruit and honey, and they are in good health and not obese or diabetic. But that's the unending argument around here, so I'm not particularly interested in turning this thread into yet another round of it.
                      Just a quick point, so as not to go round with it, but I think the point a lot of people miss is that the HGs who eat a lot of fruit and honey are also spending a whole lot of time in the sun and moving. Fructose, which is found in both, is inflammatory in large amounts but sunlight (D3) and exercise will counteract much of it, hence eating seasonally and getting outside. It's safe for someone who spends most of the day outside moving around. Most of us don't or can't spend nearly as much time outside so it isn't a good idea to go crazy with it.
                      Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Blackcatbone View Post
                        Just a quick point, so as not to go round with it, but I think the point a lot of people miss is that the HGs who eat a lot of fruit and honey are also spending a whole lot of time in the sun and moving. Fructose, which is found in both, is inflammatory in large amounts but sunlight (D3) and exercise will counteract much of it, hence eating seasonally and getting outside. It's safe for someone who spends most of the day outside moving around. Most of us don't or can't spend nearly as much time outside so it isn't a good idea to go crazy with it.
                        It's also much easier to eat forms of refined sugars (just slides down your throat) than eating three apples (my jaws get tired just thinking about it).
                        Female, age 51, 5' 9"
                        SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

                        Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
                        2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

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                        • #13
                          I think what annoyed was her dismissing the fact that some people just can't handle whole grains or wheat. I am convinced that grains and wheat are why I am fat and I think more people need to know about/understand just how much they can *(&(& with some people.

                          I guess some people are that way about fruits and sugar. For me there is no moderating my consumption of wheat and grain products.

                          At any rate we need more solutions than "low fat" or moderation.... and she kind of dismisses that. It seems like everyone has a different mix of eating for successful loss- from full on low fat vegan to all I eat is meat and veggies. I LOVE that Mark focuses on experimentation and finding what works for you.

                          http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                          Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Blackcatbone View Post
                            Just a quick point, so as not to go round with it, but I think the point a lot of people miss is that the HGs who eat a lot of fruit and honey are also spending a whole lot of time in the sun and moving. Fructose, which is found in both, is inflammatory in large amounts but sunlight (D3) and exercise will counteract much of it, hence eating seasonally and getting outside. It's safe for someone who spends most of the day outside moving around. Most of us don't or can't spend nearly as much time outside so it isn't a good idea to go crazy with it.
                            Most research on fructose is on isolated fructose in large quantities. There's simply not good evidence that fructose in the context of whole fruit has anywhere near the same effect. We are quite adamant around here about the difference between other isolated nutrients (micro or macro) and whole food consumption. Consider our debates about the carcinogenic issues in studies of grilled red meat and the offset we claim comes from antioxidant spices, for example.

                            In the same way, some of the impacts of fructose may be offset not only by sunlight and activity, but also by the presence of antioxidants and other chemical compounds in our fruit.

                            I'm not in any way stating that someone who is seriously obese with metabolic syndrome should go out and eat piles of fruit and buckets of honey. But I don't think that we would be seeing the epidemic of metabolic disorders that we see if people were eating lots of fruit instead of eating lots of sugar-laden processed foods (and even worse, sweet beverages). We simply wouldn't be getting sick the way we are now.

                            And as jojohaligo says, it's really hard to eat a large quantity of fruit, especially if one is also consuming adequate protein and fat. I probably eat vastly more fruit than many primals--usually 2-3 servings per day, sometimes more--and that's spread over an entire day and still contains far less fructose than one sees in studies of isolated fructose, which in many cases can be 100+ grams of fructose per day. For a reference, an apple contains about 10g of fructose.
                            “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

                            Owly's Journal

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                            • #15
                              I truly think it depends on the person what the right mix of whole foods is. No one should eat processed.... but in the realm of meat, fruit, veggies, dairy- it's all good. I mean there are people who's health changes for the better when they eliminate meat... It makes sense that some flourish when they eliminate fruit.

                              http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                              Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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