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  • #61
    Originally posted by karatepig View Post
    So, to kinda stay on topic, I think that those who eath paleo/primal, yet are Christians (or Muslims, or Jews, or Pagans) are contradicting themselves.
    Only because you assume that the one most stereotypical version of Christianity is the only one that all Christians follow.

    As stated by myself and others, not all Christians believe in a completely literal version of the Bible.
    Durp.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by GeorgiaPeach View Post
      Just out of curiosity, do any of you not believe in evolution and follow PB and Paleo for the health and other scientific support behind the diet and lifestyle? Christians, creationist, etc.
      Muslim! God creates how, what and when He wills. I'm not strictly PB and doubt I ever will be - as I wrote in my introductory note). Though, I should add, that many of the protocols and practices of PB are consonant with my perception of aspects of 'religious' practice .
      All the best!

      PDJ

      The quieter you become the more you're able to hear.

      Mawlana Jalaludin Rumi

      Comment


      • #63
        I like black cars.
        Don't let anybody tell you, "You can't" just because they can't.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Crabbcakes View Post

          Dark chocolate helps, too, when enthusiasm is flagging from trying to herd cats...
          And thank you for this great one...that is exactly what half my life has been like - herding cats!
          Female, age 51, 5' 9"
          SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

          Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
          2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

          Comment


          • #65
            Present! How's that for a KISS response
            If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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            • #66
              Originally posted by lssanjose View Post
              Present! How's that for a KISS response
              Excellent!
              Don't let anybody tell you, "You can't" just because they can't.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
                Only because you assume that the one most stereotypical version of Christianity is the only one that all Christians follow.

                As stated by myself and others, not all Christians believe in a completely literal version of the Bible.
                Ahhhhhh, but does it not strike you as odd that you must manipulate what you have read to conform to your per-determined conclusion? A good analogy is medical studies. Those who are interested in propagating CW often look at studies/evidence which directly defy their foregone conclusions, then "interpret" them to show how said studies/evidence support the CW position.
                Is this not what you are doing with the Bible, since it DOES NOT indicate a beginning that is consistent with what we have learned about the universe? And, not to sound like a smart-ass, but just what is it that motivates you to seek-out, and defend religion as an explanation for the universe/Man?

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by karatepig View Post
                  The problem, as I see it, is that this approach to health and wellness makes extensive use of scientific inquiry. It requires the use of a scientific mindset. Faith is an unwavering, unconditional, belief. Evolution PREDICTS that this way of eating will work best. Paleo/Primal can be viewed as further supporting discoveries. The problem with religion (by which I mean the belief in any sort of a creator), is that no real reason is given for why anything should be as it is. It is merely "god's will, and you'll be damned if you question it!"
                  If Earth were only 6000 years old, and all the creationist psuedo-science true, then why would eliminating grains be beneficial? If evolution had taken place so rapidly, then why haven't we adapted to neolithic foods? Why aren't we adapting to HFCS now? The answers to the question about our origin/evolution ARE important, and, to those who claim they don't care, yes you do. What else gives you a desire to "have faith?" Are you afraid, perhaps? If religion requires you to alter your way of thinking, WORSHIP an entity, and instruct you children in its' ways, then isn't it important enough to MAKE SURE that you aren't just making a fool or yourself? I have seen and heard of people becoming very impassioned about faith, be hateful, self-deprecating (as is often the case in worship music), irrational, even murderous. To me, it is as absurd as one child stabbing another over whether or not Rudolph flies every Christmas.
                  So, to kinda stay on topic, I think that those who eath paleo/primal, yet are Christians (or Muslims, or Jews, or Pagans) are contradicting themselves.
                  Agreed. I was a little more outspoken in the other thead with someone who was claiming a "modern religion" (anything in the past 10-12,000 years like Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, etc).

                  After doing some research and thought on mental health, I have come to decide that these religions are basically chosen and defended by their followers because the religion is good for their own mental health. It's almost a one-size-fits-all bandaid. Bandaid for what? All the crap that happens to people that is due to our totalitarian agriculture society.

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                  • #69
                    Would not Grok have been a believer?

                    Is not the theory of evolution another wrong headed presentation from the world of CW?
                    All the best!

                    PDJ

                    The quieter you become the more you're able to hear.

                    Mawlana Jalaludin Rumi

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by pdjesson View Post
                      Would not Grok have been a believer?

                      Is not the theory of evolution another wrong headed presentation from the world of CW?
                      I would think that the adherence of 75% of the planet to a Judeo/Christian/Islamic one-size-fits-all "god" is a FAR better representation of CW, and thus a far better target for doubt.

                      -signed, your friendly neighborhood Asatru heathen
                      Peak weight on Standard American Diet: 316.8 lbs
                      Initial Weight When Starting Primal: 275 lbs
                      Current weight: 210.8 lbs
                      Goal weight: 220 lbs (or less): MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

                      The way "ChooseMyPlate.gov" should have looked:
                      ChooseMyPlate

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by karatepig View Post
                        Ahhhhhh, but does it not strike you as odd that you must manipulate what you have read to conform to your per-determined conclusion? A good analogy is medical studies. Those who are interested in propagating CW often look at studies/evidence which directly defy their foregone conclusions, then "interpret" them to show how said studies/evidence support the CW position.
                        Is this not what you are doing with the Bible, since it DOES NOT indicate a beginning that is consistent with what we have learned about the universe? And, not to sound like a smart-ass, but just what is it that motivates you to seek-out, and defend religion as an explanation for the universe/Man?
                        Nope. I don't twist anything around. I don't have to. I don't take the Bible literally. Lots of people like that around.

                        Seriously, like you could really explain intricate scientific principles to a mostly illiterate populace back then - you're going to have to tone it down a bit so they'll understand the concept.
                        Durp.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Religions like these teach a few things I will talk about below. The funny (or not so funny) thing is that that these ideas persist in our society as memes even in places where people are not actually religiously connected to any of the modern religions I already mentioned (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc). These memes run deep in our society and require an actual dialogue about them for anyone to ever notice them.

                          1. People are flawed. No natural living animal would think it is flawed. Our culture does. Why? It explains to our simple minds why there is so much tragedy and chaos in the world. It's easier than saying "we effed up by creating a system where you have possessions and have to work to make money to buy food, and this system hurts the majority but helps an upper class minority of 10-20%", etc.

                          From believing that people are flawed, we begin to believe that the world would be better if people were better. From this, everything in our modern society is based upon utopian ideals. Our governments, schools, police squads, etc would all work fantastic if everyone was perfect!

                          If people are flawed, then shoot...couldn't that leave someone even more depressed than they were when they first started learning this religion? This religion has it's answer here though. Our culture either believes that "gods will save us" (salvation), or "we are gods of our own world" (scientific ignorance). These are the only comforting notions when faced with the fact people are flawed.

                          Plus, the "people are flawed" idea works great for the believer to be confident that they KNOW the one right way to live. *I mean, if other people are flawed, maybe they would be trying to 'dirty' me by trying to convert me away from my religion. Maybe I am better off with my religion than those primitive peoples who don't believe. Maybe those primitive peoples just need enlightenment.* This takes me to the next point...

                          2. There is one right way to live. We know the right way to live.
                          If it wasn't for this belief, our totalitarian agricultural society would have never spread. People HAD to think that their way was better than the tribes and other modern people they would kill in pursuit of their 'holy' goals. They HAD to think that hard work was good, divine, natural, and praise-worthy. They HAD to think people were meant to suffer.

                          3. More of anything will solve the problem of not enough. You won't find this last belief in the religious texts because no one likes a selfish person or god. However, it pervades all parts of our society. I'm including it just so that my list of totalitarian agriculture memes is complete. So, why or how did this belief come to be? Totalitarian agriculture always destroyed the soil after enough use, so peoples had to expand to more land. In the earlier times, this expansion was easy. There were gobs of land to be easily taken from unwary tribes. We as a society have an unfailing, ignorant belief that there will always be something over the horizon that will make us ok. It used to be 'more fertile land', and in the 21st century it is beginning to be "the next technological advancement" that will cleanse our destruction of the Earth. For some it's actually both.... "more fertile land in the form of a whole new planet we can colonize due to the next technological advancement."

                          Also, this whole "totalitarian agriculture" way of life destroys certain basic elements of human happiness that people start to get shallower so as to feel some happiness. We think money is the solution to our problems. We buy food, respect, and security. We used to just find/hunt food for free and give/receive support among all the tribe's members

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by keithpowers View Post
                            I would think that the adherence of 75% of the planet to a Judeo/Christian/Islamic one-size-fits-all "god" is a FAR better representation of CW, and thus a far better target for doubt.

                            -signed, your friendly neighborhood Asatru heathen
                            Oh yeh, good point. What meant is the modern manifestation of CW; the marriage between reason and monied interests; perhaps, we could, for arguments sake, date it from the Italian Renaissance.
                            All the best!

                            PDJ

                            The quieter you become the more you're able to hear.

                            Mawlana Jalaludin Rumi

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by GeorgiaPeach View Post
                              I like black cars.
                              Do you like black cars to drive into your tunnel very often?


                              Oh and I put forward this thought: If evolution essentially gets rid of weak creatures, might one eventually develop which is both omnipotent and omniscient? And might that creature travel back in time and create the universe in order to ensure that it will come into existence?

                              Who knows, "God" could be one of our descendants!
                              In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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                              • #75
                                If you really got down to the basic argument of any person who believes these memes and religion, you would see that they don't actually know these things are true. They think they are true because they want them to be true. They want them to be true because it makes their life (from their perspective) a whole lot easier, nicer, friendlier, predictable, and stress-free. Why would a natural human being need anything written in a book to feel happy and stress-free in a friendly, predictable, easy world? The modern, totalitarian agriculture society that we live in has caused trauma to people since its advent 10,000 years ago!

                                I choose to be more realistic about how I see the world.

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