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  • They have- Paleolithic Venus was a representation of pregnant women, not fat ones, particularly with steatopygia.

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    • Originally posted by Grok View Post
      So, do you think there have been obese people since the beginning of the human race?
      Maybe. I have no way of knowing. I would think that as soon as our social structures were complex and stable enough to support people who were less-than-effective hunters and gatherers, that it would have become possible for people with genetic propensities toward obesity to survive and reproduce through being supplied with food by others. Whether this actually happened or not, of course, is impossible for me to know.

      Originally posted by Grok View Post
      Please, put forth your own theories instead of just laughing at mine. If you have better theories, then why not present them to us instead of just trying to act like a know-it-all?
      I don't have to have an explanation for a phenomenon to point out that you are making leaps that you don't have enough information to make. I don't know all of the factors that can cause obesity even in modern people (and neither do you; no one does!), and I certainly don't know enough about paleolithic dietary and lifestyle habits over a broad span of time, social and technological states, and environments to try and make inferences about how, when, or how often people might have become fat under those conditions.

      Originally posted by Grok View Post
      I don't see why I can't make that assumption. Wild cereal grain eating started about that time as far as we know, as well as sedentary tribes forming about that time also as a result of eating wild grains.
      You can certainly ask the question, "might increased sedentarism and grain consumption have contributed to an increase in the rates of overweight and obesity in hunter-gather peoples of the late Paleolithic?" It's quite an interesting question, actually, and you might even be on to something. Keyword "might". The problem for me comes with the degree of certainty you are expressing that this "must" have been "the cause" of the widespread image of the obese Venus. Your posts read more like "Aha! I have discovered the Truth About Ancient Obesity" to me than they say "Hmm, this is an interesting but ultimately very difficult-to-test hypothesis that bears further thought." Maybe I am reading that attitude into your posts where it doesn't exist, and if I am doing that, I apologize for the mischaracterization.

      Originally posted by Grok View Post
      Explain to me why I can't make that connection. That is what discussions are supposed to be about -- learning from each other. It's not about trying to prove who is smarter than the other, or trying to make someone else feel dumb.
      I definitely made fun of you a little bit before. I was getting very frustrated with your continuous and seemingly willful misinterpretation of the points Wilton and I were making several pages ago on the previous topic and when I start feeling that way I tend to get sarcastic and lash out verbally, because it makes me feel better. It's not an admirable quality and I'm sorry if I made you feel belittled or unwelcome.

      On my end, I was feeling as though you were intentionally doing me the disrespect of not taking the trouble to understand the arguments I was making and responding to a simpler, less accurate version instead. I hope you can see why that was causing me some frustration.
      Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

      My Primal Journal

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      • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
        The problem for me comes with the degree of certainty you are expressing that this "must" have been "the cause" of the widespread image of the obese Venus. Your posts read more like "Aha! I have discovered the Truth About Ancient Obesity" to me than they say "Hmm, this is an interesting but ultimately very difficult-to-test hypothesis that bears further thought." Maybe I am reading that attitude into your posts where it doesn't exist, and if I am doing that, I apologize for the mischaracterization.
        It was just me postulating.

        A lot of advances took place between 50kya and 10kya. I wouldn't be surprised if obesity first showed up around this time as well. Perhaps there were extremely rare cases of obesity prior to this, but I posit that obesity first really started becoming more common around the late stone age with wild cereal eating sedentary tribes. Perhaps high sugar fruits such as dates also contributed to the obesity rate as well.

        I wonder if eating cereal grains is what actually triggered the great leap forward into the late stone age. If it allowed the people to settle down and no longer be nomadic tribes following the migration of animals, it could have also led to much more leisure time to think about other things instead of just surviving.

        Could it be possible that the first wild cereal grain eaters were the first ones to invent music and art simply because it allowed them to think about what to do with all the free time they now have?

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        • No

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          • Originally posted by justyouraveragecavemen View Post
            We should probably all get together and sing Kumbaya around a campfire.

            I'll make s'mores!
            This is a good idea.

            You all get together in the dark near a large light source and make lots of noise.

            Out in the open.

            I like this idea.

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            • Originally posted by DarthFriendly View Post
              This is a good idea.

              You all get together in the dark near a large light source and make lots of noise.

              Out in the open.

              I like this idea.
              It's odd how much your comments tend to mirror my thoughts.
              In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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              • Originally posted by GeorgiaPeach View Post
                Just out of curiosity, do any of you not believe in evolution and follow PB and Paleo for the health and other scientific support behind the diet and lifestyle? Christians, creationist, etc.
                Muslim here and I love PB for both the health benefits AND the science behind it. Although may I'm the wrong person to answer since I've got no problems with evolution/natural selection/whatever you want to call it, plus I've found nothing in my religion that contradicts that view.

                It's all a moot point anyway. I would assume that if one believed in an omniscient omnipresent all powerfull etc. God, then that God might have the wherewithal to be able to create using his own rules that he presumably put down for the universe... including natural selection. Just because it may have happened over millions of years rather than overnight doesn't make it any less spectacular.
                My art blog.

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                • I am a Christian and I love the primal lifestyle. In fact I found out about the Primal Blueprint from Tom Woods a libertarian Catholic scholar. Tom's whole family went Primal.

                  I trust science quite a bit and I doubt it just as much. Newtonian physics was not completely correct, the physics that replaced it are still not completely correct and more than likely never will be. Evolution obviously makes more sense than the Genesis story, but it too will be replaced with hopefully a better or more complete explanation someday.

                  I am an ameteur programmer and too me the advances in genetic cataloging and mapping are fascinating. Its like a four bit programming language for chemical computing. We'll learn more about how lifeforms change from genetics than we ever will from rebuilding models based on a few scrap bones and when we do we'll learn to program better too.

                  Someday when we are timewarping around the universe on beams of light with fully synthetic bodies we will laugh at our old ideas of physics and biology. I'll keep living primal in the hopes I'll live long enough to see a little of it
                  Primal Journal | MikeZentz.com

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                  • Originally posted by DarthFriendly View Post
                    This is a good idea.

                    You all get together in the dark near a large light source and make lots of noise.

                    Out in the open.

                    I like this idea.
                    As the people stoke the blaze their bacon-wrapped liver-stuffed rodent dinner is to be cooked upon, they Force informs them that a bigger roast is in the offing... for when has a Darth ever escaped the pyre...
                    I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

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                    • Originally posted by Crabbcakes View Post
                      As the people stoke the blaze their bacon-wrapped liver-stuffed rodent dinner is to be cooked upon, they Force informs them that a bigger roast is in the offing... for when has a Darth ever escaped the pyre...
                      When he's using a high powered scope and landmines.

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                      • Originally posted by DarthFriendly View Post
                        When he's using a high powered scope and landmines.


                        for all your disdain of rednecks, you would fit in amazingly well here... are you sure you are not an escapee of these parts who now turns his evil nose up at the people who perhaps have spawned him?

                        You seemed to know an awful lot about tick-ology as it pertains to here...
                        I have a mantra that I have spouted for years... "If I eat right, I feel right. If I feel right, I exercise right. If I exercise right, I think right. If I think right, I eat right..." Phil-SC

                        Comment


                        • So, you have faith in the handful of nutritionist experts who agree with a Primal diet approach and tell you that all that cholesterol won't kill you etc. They basically hold your life in their hands so they'd better be right!

                          But you don't believe in evolution. Despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of palaeontologists, geologists, geneticists et al., tell you it's a generally accepted fact? Don't you think that the oil and gas companies have faith in the theory, when they spend billions of dollars drilling in the places that the geologists tell them to?

                          If you follow a diet based on science, gleaned by real scientists, I think it's rather rude to them to say that you'll use the practical application of their findings but not accept the reasons why it works.
                          Start weight: 238 lbs (March 2012)
                          Current weight: 205 lbs (July 2012)
                          Loss so far: 33 lbs!!!
                          WOE: Primal + IF
                          Movements: Hiking, sprinting.
                          Goal: to see my abs some time in 2013!

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                          • Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
                            This is true, however we are just apemen. We aren't gods. Why should we know everything? Is that the destiny of all sentient beings in the universe?
                            I think the destiny of all beings is to simply adapt as well as possible to their environment to survive. Humans have adapted so well, that they have become sedentary and contemplate on whether or not a greater being has some greater destiny in mind for them.

                            Originally posted by jojohaligo View Post
                            That's great!
                            The difference between the two egalitarian tribes was that one had equality of rights, and the other tried to achieve equality of wealth through the means of violence to redistribute the wealth from productive members of the tribe to unproductive members.

                            Egalitarianism where everyone has equal rights, known as libertarianism, is achieved through voluntary action. This leads to an abundance of wealth.
                            Egalitarianism where everyone has equal wealth, known as socialism, is achieved through coercive action. This leads to a scarcity of wealth.

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                            • Originally posted by CaveWeirdo View Post
                              If you follow a diet based on science, gleaned by real scientists, I think it's rather rude to them to say that you'll use the practical application of their findings but not accept the reasons why it works.
                              It's a little rude to say that, if I agree with what someone says, I have to accept every single thing they say without question.

                              Having said that, I actually do believe in evolution. I'm just showing the failings of your statement. Blind devotion to ANY authority is dangerous.
                              Durp.

                              Comment


                              • I am a Christian and a creationist. I don't believe that the earth is millions of years old. I believe that Adam and Eve were created by God fully human. However, I also think it is absolutely correct that people were healthier before the agricultural revolution, regardless of how long or short a time that was. So I am following a primal/paleo diet (working on the lifestyle part) without buying into the evolution piece.

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