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  • I don't know if you can say I'm a christian primal guy.

    I'm only christian when it's convenient in a given situation. So maybe sometimes I am a christian primal and sometimes I am not.

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    • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
      It might be worth your while to study some art history; you will find that indeed FAT women have been revered through out history. As Cori said they were symbols of the goddess and fertility.

      If those sculptures are historical representations of the first fat women caused by eating grains then what about those gigantic phallus in Greek sculpture do you think those too actually existed?
      I suggest you look up Priapus. Maybe you also believe that the images you find are actual documents of the anatomical structure of Ancient Greek men. Hmmm, I wonder what those men ate and did their women really prefer men of those proportions?

      I don't know, but I think Grok is making a type of joke.
      Female, age 51, 5' 9"
      SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

      Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
      2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
        A flawed person has flawed genetics. A flawed society has flawed beliefs.

        How could a non-flawed person have flawed beliefs? We are a species that evolves not just genetically but memetically too. Our memetic evolution took a wrong path. Normally, this was corrected much more quickly during our history as a species. The Hohokam and the Anasazi did not waste time enjoying their sucky way of life. They left. In other cases, this way of life could have nearly killed out the entire group or tribe which attempted it.

        Now you ask "why did our memetic wrong-path continue instead of being stopped in its tracks"? The very memes we adopted were sustaining memes that are possibly more strong or somehow slightly unique from previous attempts at totalitarian agriculture. Our attempt continued because we believed we were meant to live that way, suffering/hard work is good and natural, that we were flawed, that we will get salvation, that our way of living is the right way, that more will always solve the problem of not enough (unlimited abdundance of nature to expand into as well as a shallow economy involving monetary/resource hoarding).
        Last edited by jojohaligo; 06-24-2012, 07:45 PM. Reason: embedded instead
        Female, age 51, 5' 9"
        SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

        Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
        2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

        Comment


        • Grok once again you are far too literal and it is too tiresome to attempt to educate you. FYI Priapus was not a an artist he is a god, the personification of male reproductivity, the male counter part to Venus. The depiction of exaggerated male attributes is not unique to Ancient Greece.

          I agree the creators of the Venus sculptures probably did see some fat (most likely pregnant) women. But can we say that they were fat from eating grain? I am not so sure. Look at the Ancient Egyptians, they were a very successful grain based culture and yet we don't have images of fat women from them. In fact when Hatshepsut sent an envoy to Nubia they were so impressed at the size of the Queen of Nubia that her image was reproduced many times. Clearly they had never seen any one like that before.
          Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by jojohaligo View Post
            Thank you Jojohaligo! I think I will join you in a glass of wine.
            Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jojohaligo View Post
              What's so hard to understand? Memetics and genetics being different?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                Grok once again you are far too literal and it is too tiresome to attempt to educate you. FYI Priapus was not a an artist he is a god, the personification of male reproductivity, the male counter part to Venus. The depiction of exaggerated male attributes is not unique to Ancient Greece.

                I agree the creators of the Venus sculptures probably did see some fat (most likely pregnant) women. But can we say that they were fat from eating grain? I am not so sure. Look at the Ancient Egyptians, they were a very successful grain based culture and yet we don't have images of fat women from them. In fact when Hatshepsut sent an envoy to Nubia they were so impressed at the size of the Queen of Nubia that her image was reproduced many times. Clearly they had never seen any one like that before.
                I don't think the Pharaohs ever ate the grains. I bet that was only used for the slaves who toiled all day long. However...

                I did my research...

                Ancient Egyptian stone reliefs show occasional obese people, such as a cook in Ankh-ma-Hor's tomb (Sixth Dynasty; 2340-2180 B.C.), and a fat man enjoying food presented to him by his lean servant, in Mereruka's tomb.[1]

                [1] http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...1bepSl8bTNmy0w

                Comment


                • Actually, I guess the Pharaohs did eat the grains because that study says that the skin folds of the ancient mummies indicated that some were fat.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                    It might be worth your while to study some art history; you will find that indeed FAT women have been revered through out history. As Cori said they were symbols of the goddess and fertility.

                    If those sculptures are historical representations of the first fat women caused by eating grains then what about those gigantic phallus in Greek sculpture do you think those too actually existed?
                    I suggest you look up Priapus. Maybe you also believe that the images you find are actual documents of the anatomical structure of Ancient Greek men. Hmmm, I wonder what those men ate and did their women really prefer men of those proportions?
                    It's also important to remember that these are small crude figures. More like something that would be used as an amulet object for active use in ceremony rather than set on a pedestal as an idealized statue such as the greeks had around.
                    Sophisticated art was not yet in practice... there were no pictures or figures during these times where fine fully detailed human are in represented. Venus and phallic symbols are the two most prominent types.

                    The earliest known Venus, Hohle Fels, is currently about 35-40 thousand y/o.
                    Have a look at the fat lady in question > Ancient Venus rewrites history books : Nature News
                    In addition to a big round stomach area and exaggerated breasts (looks "fat"), it also has an hugely exaggerated vaginal opening...
                    It is very obviously a symbolic representation.

                    There is also a Hohle Fels phallus that has been dated to approx 30k years ago... which was likely used in fertility rites/rituals that actually involved sex.

                    Also... If anyone thinks that Priapus was the only fella with a huge phallus in world culture... might want to get back to studying.
                    There are several Greek gods and demi-gods who are hugely endowed. Their representations are of gods of fertility and the artists who represented them were all across Greek culture/class/time... and wondered outside the bounds of Greece to neighboring populations as well.
                    There is evidence of phallic worship in many other countries as well... most early civilizations as a matter of fact.

                    What about this fella? File:Cucutenimalefigure.JPG - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                    Not a venus... but fat/lazy looking...
                    That assessment would be silly... this little clay man is just primitive because he was made a long bloody time ago... 7kyrs?
                    (The same groups that made that cute lazy lil guy were also into making clay phalluses BTW.
                    Just like the Venus figures. They are not perfect representation of beautiful pregnant women because they are primitive. They are symbolic... they are humanity's first simple steps into self representation. They are not, and are not meant to be the same sort of representation of "idealized perfection" that Michelangelo's Statue of David is.
                    Seriously.

                    Also... the Greeks and Egyptians were not Paleolithic peoples. They were neolithic.
                    Show me some grain evidence to go with Hohle Fels Venus... Yeah, not happening.
                    Last edited by cori93437; 06-24-2012, 08:14 PM.
                    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                    Comment


                    • Yes, the Pharaohs did eat grains but probably not as much as the average folk. The other evidence of their grain consumption can be seen in their teeth. Good job on your research.
                      Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

                      Comment


                      • Also... giantic phalluses don't exist in real life...
                        Me thinks someone has never seen a Mandingo video!
                        Google that at your own risk...
                        “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                        ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                        And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
                          They are not perfect representation of beautiful pregnant women because they are primitive. They are symbolic... they are humanity's first simple steps into self representation. They are not, and are not meant to be the same sort of representation of "idealized perfection" that Michelangelo's Statue of David is.
                          Seriously.

                          Also... the Greeks and Egyptians were not Paleolithic peoples. They were neolithic.
                          Show me some grain evidence to go with Hohle Fels Venus... Yeah, not happening.
                          Nobody suggested the Greeks/Egyptians were Paleolithic...

                          Eh? primitive art? What about this 32kya lion man?[1] And no, I'm not suggesting lion men actually existed back then, that's symbolism.

                          I'm holding onto my theory that the Venus figurines were historical accounts of the first ever fat women, and not goddesses. You don't have to believe my cockamamie theories.

                          I've already shown the evidence of cereal grain eating at Ohalo some 19,400 years ago[2]. Not quite as old as some of the Venus figurines, but pretty close.

                          [1] Lion man of the Hohlenstein Stadel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                          [2] Ohalo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Grok View Post
                            Actually, I guess the Pharaohs did eat the grains because that study says that the skin folds of the ancient mummies indicated that some were fat.
                            I really love that you think that eating grains is the only possible method anyone could use to become fat. It's kind of cute.
                            Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                            My Primal Journal

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                              I really love that you think that eating grains is the only possible method anyone could use to become fat. It's kind of cute.
                              Yeah, I suppose they could have gorged themselves on fruits and tubers, but considering that they had fields of wheat readily available to them, I'm guessing they gorged themselves on grains instead.

                              Comment


                              • BTW, if you have a better theory as to why the Pharaohs got fat, let's hear it...

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