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    • The first stone tools were used by Hominines 2.6 million years ago.[1] Assuming we have evolved from Homo Habilis, then we have been eating meat for at least that long. The earliest evidence of control of fire is about 1.7 million years ago.[2] So, we have been eating cooked food for at least that long.

      [1] Oldowan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      [2] Control of fire by early humans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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      • Homo Erectus is considered to be the first species to live in a hunter-gatherer society.[1]

        Their society was most likely that of of Band society.[2]

        [1] Homo erectus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
        [2] Band society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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        • Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
          IS it better than the "Aliens" crowd? Do "Aliens" believers believe they have holy land and are willing to kill for rights to use it? Do "Aliens" directly and indirectly lead a more damaging way of life, to themselves and their surroundings, because their gods told them it was ok?

          Well, actually there are Alien belief groups that are off the rails fanatical and cause harm to themselves and others. Scientology for instance... which is an Alien belief based "Religion". Other Alien cults have formed, been led by abusive nuts, and ended in mass suicides. The biggest difference in Alien belief cults and Religion IMO is scale.
          Other than that all things are pretty equal... except that Alien cults tend to get more fanatics and less types who are more mellow "it's just about the Love of (insert god/christ figure here)".


          You are right that the very basic element of "Aliens" and "Jesus" crowds are the same. They believe something is true without complete proof. At the end of the day, we are all believers of something.
          (...snip...)
          I do have my beliefs. The difference is that my story fits together a million times more accurately and in more detail than any religious text. Science proved these religions were antiquated and wrong. Anthropology proved our totalitarian ag society is not the only society of people on this Earth.
          For sure... right there with you.

          I totally get some aspects of religion... the Tao Te Ching for instance... Zen Buddism...
          BUT, I get them from a philosophical standpoint, not some magical worship type of thing.
          I read them the same way I read some of the ancient Greek philosophical offerings.
          There are some good ideas stuck in between a bunch of awful stuff in the Bible too... that's how I look at it.
          No, I don't worship any god, but I probably live my life closer to the rules set down by "God" than many people who jump up and down professing their devotion.

          I'll always take science, logic, and philosophy. I'm not handing my intellect over to any Religion.
          I honestly haven't ever understood why anyone would...
          “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
          ~Friedrich Nietzsche
          And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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          • Originally posted by cori93437 View Post
            For sure... right there with you.

            I totally get some aspects of religion... the Tao Te Ching for instance... Zen Buddism...
            BUT, I get them from a philosophical standpoint, not some magical worship type of thing.
            I read them the same way I read some of the ancient Greek philosophical offerings.
            There are some good ideas stuck in between a bunch of awful stuff in the Bible too... that's how I look at it.
            No, I don't worship any god, but I probably live my life closer to the rules set down by "God" than many people who jump up and down professing their devotion.

            I'll always take science, logic, and philosophy. I'm not handing my intellect over to any Religion.
            I honestly haven't ever understood why anyone would...
            +1.

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            • Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
              There is no perceived need for black pigs. Pink pigs and white pigs do the job quite well. For that matter, there's no specific need for pigs in general. Sure, they have a role in the world, but we could just as easily eat cows and chickens and fish and do quite well. The world does not demand their existence. And yet they exist.

              The one failing of science (often attributed to theology) is that there must be a reason, a "need", for the existence of everything, and every action must have a compelling reason.



              And yet quantum physics makes sense?
              Regarding the pig analogy: That is no reason for me to worship a god. If black pigs had never before been encountered by man, what reason would anyone have for stating, as a matter of fact, that they exist? Their existence would be completely possible, even likely, from an evolutionary stand-point. Each generation of a given species will have variances in its' genes that may or may not give it a new physical trait. If this trait increases, or at least does not decrease, the organisms chances to reproduce, then it might just stick around. However, anybody saying this, would be justifying their HYPOTHESIS, not belief. Anybody who stated that the knew black pigs existed as a fact, would be LYING. Answer me this, please: Do you know, as a matter of fact and faith, that there is a god?

              Now to the second point: When you get into the unseen bits of our universe, "common sense" has no place. "common sense" was developed and is useful only in, our day-today, macroscopic world. Particles can be in two places simultaneously. That has been successfully demonstrated in many experiments. Particles have particle-wave duality, space "warps", etc. All these things are logical, and sensible once you begin to understand the how and why,

              Finally, the third point:The atheistic explanations for the universe do not require a "need" for anything. They just give the reasons. And there always is a reason, perceived or not.

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              • Originally posted by Grok View Post
                The first stone tools were used by Hominines 2.6 million years ago.[1] Assuming we have evolved from Homo Habilis, then we have been eating meat for at least that long. The earliest evidence of control of fire is about 1.7 million years ago.[2] So, we have been eating cooked food for at least that long.

                [1] Oldowan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                [2] Control of fire by early humans - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                Originally posted by Grok View Post
                Homo Erectus is considered to be the first species to live in a hunter-gatherer society.[1]

                Their society was most likely that of of Band society.[2]

                [1] Homo erectus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                [2] Band society - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                Were these intended to be a response to someone or are you just putting them out for educational value?
                Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                My Primal Journal

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                • I like how Pratchett put it in Thud...

                  “You know, your religion really messes people up,” said Vimes.

                  “Not in comparison to what they do to one another,” said Bashfullsson, calmly folding the dead dwarf’s hands across his chest. “And it is not a religion, Commander. Tak wrote the World and the Laws, and then He left us. He does not require that we think of Him, only that we think.”

                  I like creationism because I like a good story. I do not have the brain power, knowledge of quantum physics, or the required give a f*ck to know about appearing and disappearing particles, bangs big or small, or the other scientific theories, laws, proofs, and guesses that make up the beginnings of the universe. Created by some bigger, smarter, more powerful entity? Sure I can wrap my little - evolved from a common ancestor kinda-monkey - brain around that. But I think said creator has better things to do than watch to see if I am praying, beating off, abusing my fellow man, or eating grains. He got it all started and went off to do better and more godly things, which left us to think, evolve, progress, digress, and generally make a pig's ear of it all. Is that just a fancy way to say, "I don't know the answer; physics happens"? Maybe. Frankly I don't care, but 40 days of rain, a big f*cking ark, and a dude dying on a cross makes a far better story than "Yeah, so then some particles formed and blah blah" so I will stick with that and let reality fall where it may. Beliefs make us human. To quote Pratchett again...


                  Death: Humans need fantasy to *be* human. To be the place where the falling angel meets the rising ape.
                  Susan: With tooth fairies? Hogfathers?
                  Death: Yes. As practice, you have to start out learning to believe the little lies.
                  Susan: So we can believe the big ones?
                  Death: Yes. Justice, mercy, duty. That sort of thing.
                  Susan: They're not the same at all.
                  Death: You think so? Then take the universe and grind it down to the finest powder, and sieve it through the finest sieve, and then show me one atom of justice, one molecule of mercy. And yet, you try to act as if there is some ideal order in the world. As if there is some, some rightness in the universe, by which it may be judged.
                  Susan: But people have got to believe that, or what's the point?
                  Death: You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?


                  so long story short, I think Creationism makes a good story so i will buy into it because frankly it doesn't matter how we got here, here we are. A little fantasy goes a long way.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                    Were these intended to be a response to someone or are you just putting them out for educational value?
                    Just educational value.

                    I was about to respond to one of your posts about using traps and fishing nets etc.

                    After some more research, we need to be clear if we are referring to the Middle Stone Age or the Late Stone Age.

                    Homo Sapiens appeared roughly 200,000 years ago[1] and The Great Leap Forward occurred some 40-50k years ago along with the extinction of the Neanderthals.[2]

                    [1] Human - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                    [2] Behavioral modernity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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                    • Again, I'm seriously not proselytizing. I don't want to convince anyone that God exists. I was merely stating that the lack of a need behind God's existence does not automatically preclude there being a God. I'm really confused as to why there is a need to debate that.

                      My original purpose in posting in this thread was to explain that not all Christians believe in a literal reading of the Bible or deny evolution. I'm one of those that believe wholeheartedly in evolution. And I'm not trying to get anyone to believe in anything other than that they (and I) can't possibly know everything there is to know about the universe and beyond.

                      I'm done debating because I never did want to debate. Unfortunately, that's where it went, whether I liked it or not. I shouldn't have been surprised. It always does. I was just trying to explain that not all Christians fit the stereotype. Shame on me.

                      Yet again, believe whatever you want. It really is no business of mine. I never thought it was.
                      Durp.

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                      • It's really interesting, I'm reading about Cro-Magnon man[1] in Europe about the time of this so called Great Leap Forward, and how the Cro-Magnon were really big on art like cave paintings and figurines. But their Venus figurines were of fat women.[2]

                        This makes me wonder if these people were the first to start eating grains as part of their diet.

                        [1] Cro-Magnon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                        [2] Venus of Hohle Fels - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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                        • booooooooring.

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                          • Meh. Liberal christians can hem and haw all you want about how you don't believe in the murdery and crazy parts of the bible, but just look at the empirical evidence that history lays out. All it takes is one little slip, one gasp of air against the house of cards our civilization rests on, and Christians, Jews, and whoever else will immediately re-radicalize and revert back to being the murderous authoritarian douchebags they've always been.

                            Liberal theism and happy jesus kumbaya time is just a modern 1st world convenience. One that, given current economic conditions and constantly escalating warfare could easily be taken away from western civ. All it takes is a little more poverty and landmines, and america & western europe could easily end up looking like the middle east. I really don't want to be here when SHTF and the dominionists get cut loose.
                            “The whole concept of a macronutrient, like that of a calorie, is determining our language game in such a way that the conversation is not making sense." - Dr. Kurt Harris

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                            • To be fair, I think there are very few moderns who have any understanding of religion that gives them any right to sound-off like they are authorities. Most people don't even know how to $&!£ properly Squatty Potty Toilet Stool, Prevent Colon Disease, Avoid Constipation, End Painful Hemorrhoids, Solve Pelvic Floor Prolapse Issues, Poop Faster and More Effectively and Help Prevent Colon Cancer.
                              All the best!

                              PDJ

                              The quieter you become the more you're able to hear.

                              Mawlana Jalaludin Rumi

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                              • Originally posted by Hoss2626 View Post
                                To answer the OP, I am a Christian who takes the Bible at face value (i.e, a literal Adam and Eve) and I follow the PB lifestyle.
                                But... but aren't you contradicting yourself?

                                The PB is as opposite of creationist Christian belief as you can get, as Paleo is based on the idea that our bodies adapted to a certain type of diet in the Paleolithic era, and it is our nature to consume Paleo foods.

                                You believe that there was never a Paleolithic era. Humans magically poofed into existence and grazed on cotton candy and Skittles in the Garden of Eden alongside velociraptors and T-Rexes, which in the language of the time were called "behemoths" and "leviathans". Sadly, the dinosaurs died out sometime between A.D. 64 and now, but we know that Jesus rode velociraptors. The very word "Paleo" should not even be in your vocabulary. Do you see what I mean?

                                I am very concerned about your faith, son. It seems weak, if you're willing to pay attention to - shudder - what those evil, fallen scientists have to say. Open your bible and turn to Leviticus and prayerfully read the whole thing, not just the kill the gays part. I hope you're not eating pork and shellfish or wearing cotton-poly blends, for they are an abomination unto you. I think you would be more holy and righteous following the Bible Diet, even if their food pyramid is illustrated with the accursed rainbow of the homosexual abomination. (Let us all say a prayer for the designers of the rainbow food pyramid. They know not what they do.)

                                The Bible Diet emphasizes plants bearing seed. It's granola and Essene bread all the way if you want to stay saved. Jesus commands it!

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