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  • #16
    1



    Yeah. thanks for the link. That's what prompted my question above. What side effects are bad enough to risk those diseases?

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    • #17
      1



      I found this article very informative:


      http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/1...omment-page-5/

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      • #18
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        I'm glad you got your child vaccinated, kam904s. I hope he feels better soon.


        To the non-vaccinators, there's been extensive studies that found no connection between vaccinations and all the ills that they're blamed for. Recently, there was a teenager in the UK who collapsed and died shortly after receiving her swine flu jab. Of course the news was all over it and suddenly the swine flu vaccination was going to kill us all and blah blah. Anyway, it turns out that this girl had a massive undiagnosed tumor ravaging her body and that it was just a coincidence that she died after her flu shot. Sensationalist news media drives a culture of fear.


        Millions of children get vaccinations every year and only a tiny few have any sort of reactions. Autism and gastrointestinal problems are increasing even though vaccination is decreasing. So how could vaccinations be causing these problems? The diseases we are vaccinated against used to be the top cause of death and disability for children. If it wasn't for vaccinations many of our parents and grandparents wouldn't have survived to adulthood. Now that so many parents are opting out of vaccinating their children, when one of these diseases does pop up again (which they periodically do), then it sweeps through communities and children do die.


        The thing that gets me is that when parents choose not to vaccinate their children, they aren't just putting their own children at risk, they are also risking all the children who are too young to have been vaccinated yet. So please don't listen to all the sensationalistic reports. There isn't a vast conspiracy or cover-up.

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        • #19
          1



          @ Icme, just fyi, the forum I linked above discusses vaxes from various perspectives, along w/ pros/cons/alternatives to the regular schedule, etc... Here is a link to a subforum there specifically about personal experiences irt vaccinations: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...play.php?f=240


          Here is a link about various vaccine ingredients and side effects by vaccine. http://www.knowvaccines.com/vaccineingredients.htm


          Also, the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) has lists of reactions that have been reported (they state that reactions are under reported, just fyi) if you check out their site. You can click on the links by year--'symptoms' will give you a list of various reactions folks have experienced/reported. http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/data/


          These are very difficult, complex, and loaded decisions we must make as parents. Wading through the info and misinformation out there on all sides is a heavy task, as is deciding what is best for your own, unique child. Not something to go into lightly, no matter what you decide.


          This is a link to a page of anti-vax sites, if you want to look more at that side of the vaccine story. I've not reviewed all of them, but did utilize some when researching the vax issue for my family. http://www.knowvaccines.com/links.htm As with anything, you really need to do a lot of legwork for yourself to figure out what the best decision will be for your own family. I am not trying to convince anyone that one decision is better than another, but I do believe in being informed from all angles irt to health decisions...


          Edited to add:


          I also find the generation rescue site very helfpul as well. http://www.generationrescue.org/index.html If you look at the top bar, one label says "vaccines" and you can scroll over it to choose from different links there.


          Vax ingredients and possible side effects: http://www.generationrescue.org/vaccine_information/

          Vax damage stories: http://www.generationrescue.org/gr-c...ine-injury.php

          Some basic (helpful imo) info on vaccines: http://www.generationrescue.org/vaccines.html **** I think this link is really worth checking out/reading if you're just starting to look into/research the vaccine topic.

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          • #20
            1



            I'm not against vaxing in general, i'm against vaxing *for my family.* And i only got that way when my oldest started having negative reactions to them. That's when i stopped, not because some internet article told me to. I'm also specifically against the standardized and generally accepted schedule for vaccines--they're given too early, and in unnecessarily high dosages. I guess my official stance on the issue is 'pro- selective vaccinations.' Because i believe they should be given on an as-needed basis.


            In a perfect world, children would be tested for immunity and dosed accordingly with the vaccines they might really need. But that's not how it's done. Instead, they're pumped full of everything at once and sent on their way. It's cost-effective, afterall. Just like standardized testing in schools (which i'm also against).


            Both sides of this particular issue are right, and both sides are wrong. I think the best thing a parent can do is read all the research they can, make the decision that best fits their family, and remain flexible--because you can bet your ass that if a local threat came into play, i wouldn't hesitate to get my kids vaccinated. But as it stands, they don't even get colds or flus most years.

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            • #21
              1



              *Hugs* I completely understand what you mean. I accompanied my sis 5 years ago when she took my niece to get her shots. It broke my heart to see my 2-month old niece wailing in pain. What you describe will be me in about 8 months!


              Sheesh, isn't there are thing that's commercially sold that doesn't have HFCS or some corn derivative!!!


              I hope you and Baby are feeling better now Kam.

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              • #22
                1



                I took a look at that forum. It was just a bunch of emotional responses to things like formaldehyde and and mercury. Also, people were saying things like "I can't overstimulate my child's developing immune system" What? It's not meant to overstimulate, it's meant to have as directed a response as possible. Do you know the difference between a T-cell and B-cell immune response? A cell-mediated and a humoral response? No? Well the people that develop vaccines sure as hell do. There are a lot of good immunologists out there studying vaccine technology such as adjuvants. Are vaccines perfect? I doubt it, and I don't deny that a VERY small percent of the population may have a long-term negative response, but it is nothing compared to the impact that the diseases we are vaccinating for can have.


                I'm getting a little upset, but I guess it doesn't really matter, because if these diseases ever make a comeback we know who's going to be effected. Whereas, if they don't make a comeback then you made the best choice. So it's a trade off and parents can decide what side of the equation they want their children on.

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                • #23
                  1



                  The American vax schedule is far more aggressive than in other countries, which is why selective-vaxxing is skewed towards Americans. Just something worth noting, that in other developed countries they space out the vaxing and don't do quite as many to infants, so if an American mother is wary of the American schedule, that is quite reasonable.

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                  • #24
                    1



                    It should also be mentioned that un-vaccinated kids are not necessarily being left to the proverbial wolves. Many of those kids (mine included) were breastfed, which does provide a pretty significant amount of immunity to many things. There's also such a thing as 'herd immunity' so let's not get judgmental and assume parents are being irresponsible in their decisions.

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                    • #25
                      1



                      @hippie_mama -


                      Breastfeeding doesn't not provide a complete set of antibodies from mother to child. Only certain antibodies. As far as I can tell from the literature, it does not appear that childhood illnesses for which children are vaccinated for are hindered in any way by breastfeeding.


                      Herd immunity doesn't appear to have any basis, at least for humans. The recent measles outbreaks in California and Iowa affected only those babies who weren't vaccinated for measles--that's telling. In the UK, where the autism/vaccine hysteria reached a much higher peak than it did here, measles is on the rise and kids are dying because they're not being vaccinated.


                      Remember that while Grok did have robust health thanks do diet and exercise, infant mortality is incredibly high in hunter-gatherer societies, and the mortality rates for women during childbirth was also incredibly high. We enjoy much lower infant mortality rates and much higher childbirth survival rates thanks to vaccinations and modern obstetrics.


                      The CW may be wrong on its nutritional guidelines, but it isn't wrong on vaccines. Not by a longshot.

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                      • #26
                        1



                        I'm glad other people are with me on this. I have actually read information on the other side (no-vax) and am in no way convinced that it is the right choice for my loved ones.

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                        • #27
                          1

                          [quote]

                          And i only got that way when my oldest started having negative reactions to them. That's when i stopped, not because some internet article told me to. I'm also specifically against the standardized and generally accepted schedule for vaccines--they're given too early, and in unnecessarily high dosages. I guess my official stance on the issue is 'pro- selective vaccinations.' Because i believe they should be given on an as-needed basis.


                          In a perfect world, children would be tested for immunity and dosed accordingly with the vaccines they might really need.
                          </blockquote>


                          I really agree w/ your post hippie mama. It&#39;s just not a black and white issue.


                          And I&#39;ve found, for me, looking at both stats along w/ personal stories (emotional as they may be), has been helpful in my decision making. I just think it&#39;s great when folks look into this issue at all (something I did not do before my son got his first few vaccines.)

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                          • #28
                            1

                            [quote]

                            So it&#39;s a trade off and parents can decide what side of the equation they want their children on.</blockquote>


                            I think it&#39;s more than an either/or situation--there are many alternatives to the standard US vax schedule. You can delay vaccines, selectively vaccinate, get just one vax at a time (vs. 3) etc. I just think there are a lot of shades to this issue.


                            I&#39;m also all for &#39;greening&#39; vaccines and getting some of the crap out of them...

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                            • #29
                              1



                              "I think it&#39;s more than an either/or situation--there are many alternatives to the standard US vax schedule. You can delay vaccines, selectively vaccinate, get just one vax at a time (vs. 3) etc. I just think there are a lot of shades to this issue."


                              FairyRae - I agree that there is definitely room for disagreement on scheduling. But the decision not to vaccinate at all strikes me as deeply dangerous. It wasn&#39;t that long ago, prior to vaccines, that horrible diseases struck children from all walks of life. I mean, Franklin Roosevelt was a privleged son of a VERY wealthy family, with access to the best money could buy. But he still got polio.

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                              • #30
                                1



                                @hippie_mama:


                                Yes, there is such a thing as herd immunity. The parents who choose not to vaccinate their children are causing quite a bit of damage to it. For most of these diseases, herd immunity requires that upwards of 80% of the population be immune. If a bunch of children in the same area are unvaccinated, the herd immunity in that area is shot. That puts all kinds of people at risk - the elderly, the immunocompromized, the people for whom the vaccination didn&#39;t work for some reason, the infants who are too young to have been vaccinated yet. Remember that for some vaccines, immunity wears off after years or decades. You may be able to survive whooping cough, but what about your hypothetical 90-year-old grandmother? What about your neighbor&#39;s new baby?


                                @PrimalJak:


                                Herd immunity definitely has a basis in humans. It&#39;s just not a bulletproof defense. Basically all it means is that if there is an outbreak in a population with herd immunity, it will be unable to spread. Those areas of England where kids are dying of measles no longer have herd immunity. Otherwise, the outbreaks would have been much more contained.


                                The Wikipedia article on herd immunity is pretty handy:


                                http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

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