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  • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    I didn't realize fat people were anti gay and anti smoking.
    I'm not saying they are but some are no doubt. My point was that everyone has a cause and often those causes are about the freedom to do, whatever, to your own body. Smoke, have sex with whoever you want (of legal age), eat, drink, inject...whatever. Which is fine but to me it seems like that people either a) get so caught up in their own causes that they don't support other people's causes if they are not aligned with their own or b) they believe that their cause is right and the others are wrong.

    As an example, I was raised in a Baptist church and a good number of them were fat. Now this was during a time when there was no such thing as a fat acceptance movement but I can see them getting onboard with one. However, I can never see them supporting a gay and lesbian rights group.

    And before someone jumps in with homosexuality being a sin, look up gluttony.

    As to smoking, a lot of cities are restricting smoking in almost anyplace but your own house. Even bars and resturants are not allowed to have smoking sections. There have been cities that tried to pass laws against smoking in your own house if you have children at home.
    Randal
    AKA: Texas Grok

    Originally posted by texas.grok
    Facebook is to intelligence what a black hole is to light
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    • Originally posted by Saoirse View Post
      well said zoe. canio I know you don't really get it, but a lot of women are negatively effected by this. it's not just "oh people think she's hot, i don't look like her so i should just off myself"; it's more ubiquitous than that. I wish i knew how to explain it to you.
      Oh, I get it that it is a problem. I am being willfully obtuse, because getting an eating disorder so you can look like a model seems really f'ing stupid to me. To allow the media to have that large an effect on your own self-image just makes me shake my head and say 'WTF?' I wonder why a person would allow it to get to that point. I have a friend with an ED. As she was physically, emotionally and sexually abused as a child the only form of control she could manage was what she put in her mouth. Also the hospital was the only safe place. That seems like a legit reason for having an ED. "OMG I want to be skinny!" doesn't. I didn't want to come right out and say it though because that is probably really insensitive to people with eating disorders and given I have never been a woman nor had an ED perhaps there is something I am missing that makes a person in a magazine have more control over a young girl/guy's self-image than their parents/peers/good sense.

      Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
      Sorry, I wasn't meaning to and am not criticising her as an individual, or other individuals who happen to be thin. I was meaning the fashion industry glamorising thin women.
      I know, I was just being a dick, because while I know you were not doing it, many people do seem to blame the models themselves. That said, I still do not see how we can blame the fashion industry. If I look at Ryan Reynolds or some body builder and decide to take steroids is that their fault? I don't think so. If I see a model and only eat two spoonfuls of dry oat meal a day I don't see how that is their fault either. I am my own person making my own (poor) choices.
      Last edited by canio6; 06-28-2012, 02:58 AM.

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      • Oh, I get it that it is a problem. I am being willfully obtuse, because getting an eating disorder so you can look like a model seems really f'ing stupid to me. To allow the media to have that large an effect on your own self-image just makes me shake my head and say 'WTF?' I wonder why a person would allow it to get to that point. I have a friend with an ED. As she was physically, emotionally and sexually abused as a child the only form of control she could manage was what she put in her mouth. Also the hospital was the only safe place. That seems like a legit reason for having an ED. "OMG I want to be skinny!" doesn't. I didn't want to come right out and say it though because that is probably really insensitive to people with eating disorders and given I have never been a woman nor had an ED perhaps there is something I am missing that makes a person in a magazine have more control over a young girl/guy's self-image than their parents/peers/good sense.
        You've never been a teen girl. I was a chubby teen- other kids are (were?) brutal to fat kids. Think people calling you names constantly.... it gets old. I can see constant bullying causing an eating disorder. Then you have people like "coaches" telling girls to lose weight to be more competitive. Very prevelant in riding where a think body is preferable due to an elegant appearance (never mind that strength is more imprortant).

        There is a lot of positive reinforcement for looking like that model no matter how you do it. Thank god there is now a lot of positive reinforcement for looking like the fit woman. But really.... there is pretty much no positive reinforcement out there for being fat, beyond a small movement trying to give people support in just going on with their lives instead of obsessing over their weight. Let people be defined by something other than their body.

        I remember being a young rider and my mom made the comment that because I was fat, I'd always have to be that much better at riding than everyone else to win because I didn't look as elegant on my horse. The sad thing is it carries through most aspects of life.

        http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
        Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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        • I could be wrong, but I believe canio is not talking about what you've described, magnolia, but the kind of "eating disorder" that people ADOPT rather than develop. Like "I cut myself because it will get me attention from this boy and he will think I'm troubled and hot" as opposed to "I cut myself because I'm in a lot of emotional pain and don't know how else to express it."
          Depression Lies

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          • Well.... the mentality of a teenage girl is not the same as the mentality of a grown man. Teenage girls face a lot of pressure to be thin, and even if your family is great and supportive, you are bombarded by thin=pretty images, a lot of sports put pressure on you to be thin... I don't think it takes much for those outside influences to outweigh your parents. Let's face it, we've glamourized thinness, and remember heroin chic? Thank god we've gotten away from the thin druggie glamour ideal, but now we have the lovely unacheivable ideal of very thin, boy like body with ginormous boobs thanks to photoshop.

            It would be nice to have more bodies represented as beautiful by mainstream.... and even better if it was more like 1/3 waif like, 1/3 jock, and 1/3 normal... instead its 90% waif, 5% kick ass and maybe 5% normal (but very curvy).

            http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
            Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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            • I'd like to add that I had a TON of issues with self image and I wasn't even 'chubby'.

              I worked on our own farm, and several others, alongside men, and I enjoyed being physical so in the afternoons when I had to wait for brother at football practice I would join in the running portion of the work outs and sometimes in the weight room too.

              I was one of those young ladies that could bulk some muscle(a gift from my father who has a huge upper body and was a gymnast... you know rings and stuff... iron cross and everything)... I was basically eating "Primal" because that's what we had on the farm, and I could out leg press and out incline situp MOST of the team. I could even beat a good portion of them arm wrestling.

              I probably looked like what a young crossfitting girl looks like now... Not so much the six pack but I wasn't trying to work towards anything. I was just having fun... but I got called names. I was called Amazon. The guys didn't want to date a girl who was stronger than them. And the girls in my small town were BRUTAL. I was once asked if I had been in an accident because I wore a scoop necked top that revealed my traps. They told me my neck looked all "swollen up". Same thing with my thighs... SO big... "thunder thighs"... yeah, well... thunder rock hard thighs at the time from lifting lots of heavy things from low on the ground, riding horses, riding motocross bikes, etc.
              And the magazines/media all showed soft slim women, not muscular fit.

              By the end of highschool I had backed way off of physical activity because I had been pushed so far out of the social structure by others opinion my fitness. I had even stopped eating much of anything for a while in an attempt to look thin and be accepted... it didn't work... I looked like a too low BF girl, and looked sick with dark rings under my eyes, and felt awful. Even the chunky girls were included more... because having some chunky girls around is expected.
              And that was in a small town... probably LESS affected by mainstream media messages than what city girls have to live in/with.

              Young girls just don't really have a defense against this kind of thing unless they have VERY proactive parents who put them into contact with lots of alternative lifestyle communities such as maybe taking them to see a crossfit competition if they are muscular girls... or pointing them towards other women's lifting sports.

              IMO the biggest problem is that most mothers went through the same things that their daughters go through and STILL believe the media messages, and think that that struggle for women to conform to a single body type is normal. It's really insidious.
              Last edited by cori93437; 06-28-2012, 09:41 AM.
              “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
              ~Friedrich Nietzsche
              And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

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              • Abs! Er, Ghost of Abs! Sorry I'm too late, but I discovered Julian McMahon as Balthazar on Charmed, and he's the reason I watched Nip/Tuck at all

                Actually, technically, he was only ever Cole. Whoever was the body in the makeup of Balthazar would be worth a *thoughtful pause* or two as well, I'm sure

                (Sorry, I know the conversation had returned to topic, but I had to give Cole some love)
                http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

                Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

                And now I have an Etsy store: CattailsandCalendula

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                • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                  Well.... the mentality of a teenage girl is not the same as the mentality of a grown man. Teenage girls face a lot of pressure to be thin, and even if your family is great and supportive, you are bombarded by thin=pretty images, a lot of sports put pressure on you to be thin... I don't think it takes much for those outside influences to outweigh your parents.
                  this is what i'm talking about. don't forget it happens to teenage boys in some sports (track, swimming, wrestling) too, albeit at a significantly lower rate.

                  i'm not claiming i had an eating disorder, because i don't think i did. however, last summer i was going through a great deal of stress (canio i think you can remember the backstory here), which triggered some self-esteem issues, which then triggered some body-image issues. while my ego was being attacked by another person, i felt like i didn't have any other ego boosters to fall back on (what can a constantly-tired housewife in a dirty house feel proud of?) In the end, I could only feel pride about my personal accomplishments, and taking care of kids meant i didn't have the time alone to really accomplish much, so my body was the only thing left that i could mold and feel proud of. at the same time, i struggled with the concept of gaining my sense of worth from how i looked; i just didn't feel that was a healthy attitude to adopt. so i didn't really accomplish much there (except a 10 lb weight loss which i've gained back). it wasn't really logical, but we all act in illogical ways sometimes (and if you think you don't, then you're not self-aware).

                  anyway, i guess what i'm saying is that i think these body issues are usually created the combination of stress, low self-esteem, and a lack of other skills/successes to fall back on. Maybe a girl is smart, but maybe that seems irrelevant to her. i don't know. as far as the development of eating disorders in kids with no problems, i'm not sure if i believe they exist. otherwise loving parents can give their kids the wrong messages without meaning to, then the kid absorbs those messages and runs with them.
                  my primal journal:
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                  • I have typed my response 3 times and there is no polite way to say it so I am going to bow out of this conversation.

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                    • I would say that the media images don't help, but aren't the underlying causes of eating disorders.

                      Most eating disorders are about control/anxiety. So, they come from something else, btu the media images of beauty don't help.

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                      • Originally posted by canio6 View Post
                        I have typed my response 3 times and there is no polite way to say it so I am going to bow out of this conversation.
                        So?

                        Dispense with politeness, tact, pleasantries and say what's on your mind.

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                        • Really only one solution

                          S.O.D. - Season The Obese - YouTube

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                          • Originally posted by canio6 View Post
                            I have typed my response 3 times and there is no polite way to say it so I am going to bow out of this conversation.
                            You have been eliminated by excuses
                            Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                            Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                            Current Weight: 235 pounds
                            Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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                            • I don't know. Why is it that in just about every sit-com or other TV show, the husband gets to be fat and the wife has to be wicked thin and gorgeous?
                              5' 9" 47 YO F
                              PB start June 2, 2012
                              Pre PB SW = 180 (no scale at home, Mom's scale January - 153lbs!)
                              Current deadlift 245 lbs, squat 165 lbs, bench press 135 lbs


                              PB Journal

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                              • Originally posted by June68 View Post
                                I don't know. Why is it that in just about every sit-com or other TV show, the husband gets to be fat and the wife has to be wicked thin and gorgeous?
                                Why is it on almost every tv show the guy is stupid and the woman is smart?
                                Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                                Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                                Current Weight: 235 pounds
                                Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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