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  • Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Leida, I honestly think that's because you're chronically on a diet. You're constantly concerned about your weight and constantly undereating your TDEE in an attempt to "lose weight." You've been on a diet since I tried the UD2. Except you've never gotten off. I'm willing to bet you were on it before I tried the UD2 as well.

    I tried experimenting with low-cal for awhile and this is what I noticed:

    I was losing all the weight in my muscles. My big lifts (deads and benchpresses mainly) went down while my supplemental lifts plateaued. My body fat stayed unchanged, I was having water weight fluctuations and looking bloated and, the funny thing was, as soon as I upped my calories near maintenance I would pile on fat. It was strange to watch. What is fixing it for me is eating a whole lot more food. All my lifts have gone through the roof (I just PR'd my deads AND benchpresses this week), a lot of water came out from under my skin, I feel a whole lot better and I haven't gained any body fat except for an initial increase that went away pretty quickly.

    Any time I've dropped calories significantly, I have gained back all the fat within a week or two of normal eating. I'm almost positive you have a downregulated metabolism. If I were you, I'd totally abandon the calorie counting and just EAT NORMALLY. No, don't eat normally. Actually make yourself full often. There will be an initial weight gain, but I think you're metabolically messed up so any time you eat an extra calorie it partitions way more to fat because of the ensuing "famine" you keep putting yourself through. Eat normally for a month or two and let yourself gain. Focus on getting stronger in the gym and give up tracking. I don't think you have the ability to get the body you want because you don't have the ability to burn body fat. You only burn muscle and connective tissue.

    The UD2 made me the leanest I've ever been in my life and chubbiest I've ever been since starting the PB. I came from a healthy place, so the first 6 weeks of the UD2 resulted in a lot of body fat loss. Then I downregulated, gained tons of fat in the 2 weeks after and the next 6 week cycle did nothing but make me chubbier. I lost all the UD2 fat by eating more food and building muscle instead. RECOMP. STOP CUTTING. You probably have sky high cortisol 25 hours a day/8 days a week.
    I don't normally agree with Chaco but I agree with this.

    And I think he also explained something about the fat acceptance movement. The fat people out there are always on a diet. They are down-regulating their metabolisms. They may or may not lose some weight but once off the diet they gain it back and become the "chubbiest I've ever been." Over and over it goes with ever-increasing fatness. No wonder they want to give up.

    The beauty of giving up on dieting and accepting your fat self is now you can look other people straight in the eye. People with that kind of confidence make more money and excel at more things. Confidence is good, if it is real. If that confidence is fake and full of identity politics, then it will ultimately fail. It remains to be seen which is which and ultimately, it's not my job to decide for someone else anyway.

    If anything, giving up is why Primal worked for me. I pretty much gave up on the idea of ever losing weight. All I wanted was the appetite control so maybe I could feel normal like other people. It is quite a surrender to purchase bacon and butter in our culture, that is for sure. You really have to give up to do it.

    As for Chaco's advice above, I'm finding it somewhat true for my own fat self. After the appetite control, I got some great results with Primal but it went only so far. Just like I gave up initially with Primal, I have given up again lately. Egads I sometimes eat a lot now. Oddly, I don't gain any weight, at least not so far. Instead, I started sprinting, which is something I've never tried. It just burst forth from inside of me one day. It was really quite cathartic and fun. It makes me eat more, but maybe, not quite sure yet, it might be making me look better. It wasn't something I did because I "should", I just one day started running fast and wanted to keep doing it.

    And for RitaRose's point, I wanted to mention that the mail carrier lady that delivers my mail is really fat. And today I saw the meter reader lady and she's fat too, like I used to be. I initially lost weight hiking the Pacific Crest Trail but by the time I got to Washington, I was already gaining it back. I could totally see it in my face. I went from double-chin to straight jawline to double-chin again. Exercise, even a marathon every single day, doesn't really work. Dieting doesn't really work. If anything works, I think for some of us anyway, it's just giving up.
    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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    • People make excuses because they don't want to change. It's not so much laziness as much as a fear of change.

      I didn't get obese from sitting on my arse in front of the telly, gorging on takeaways. I didn't get obese from yo-yo dieting. I got obese over the course of many years, exercising but not with enough focus, eating a fair amount of healthy foods but also, a little too much of the bad stuff as well. I got obese because I made excuses, because I didn't want to have to change.

      I changed my diet significantly, and I am losing weight now. I feel like a different person not only in my body but in my personality too. I believe most people can do something like this, but they have to want it enough to make the changes. A big person might look at before and after pics for inspiration and say 'It is possible for some people, who have the time/money/a personal trainer/more willpower than me.' but it takes a huge leap of faith to say 'It is possible for me too!'

      It was so hard for me to quit my favourite foods, but in the end I had to say 'ENOUGH to feeling crap!'. It was hard to accept the fact that no magic pill or gimmick was going to do it for me, I had to do it myself. I think it takes a momentous 'SHIT JUST GOT REAL!' revelation, of knowing that only YOU can take control of your health, to really kick you up the arse, and sometimes it has to happen more than once for you to stay on track.
      Last edited by CaveWeirdo; 06-15-2012, 11:31 AM.
      Start weight: 238 lbs (March 2012)
      Current weight: 205 lbs (July 2012)
      Loss so far: 33 lbs!!!
      WOE: Primal + IF
      Movements: Hiking, sprinting.
      Goal: to see my abs some time in 2013!

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      • Being fat is not a sin just as being fit is not a virtue. Our ultimate destination is the same either way.

        Anti fat is really the last acceptable prejudice. I think it needs to go the way of all the others.
        Wheat is the new tobacco. Spread the word.

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        • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
          Not to mention the original question was why americans are fatter.

          If they answer is "Because they are lazy" then the question becomes, why are americans lazier than the rest of the world?

          I don't think that they are (or more virtuous, or more athletic, or more democratic). Americans are people, and they are much the same as people everywhere when you get right down to it.

          I would argue that large scale differences between cultures are invariably the result of differing cultural beliefs or historical / resource based differences.

          I've already suggested the US's farming subsidies distorting the food economy as one factor.
          I think that the American lifestyle of stressing themselves over work, and expecting everything else to come easy, is a huge part of it. Stress coming in from both sides.
          My chocolatey Primal journey

          Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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          • Originally posted by sakura_girl View Post
            I think that the American lifestyle of stressing themselves over work, and expecting everything else to come easy, is a huge part of it. Stress coming in from both sides.
            +1

            My recent weight gain is directly tied to how stressed out I am by work. I'm actually eating relatively ok foods (not great, but better than they used to be) and still packing on the pounds.
            http://cattaillady.com/ My blog exploring the beginning stages of learning how to homestead. With the occasional rant.

            Originally Posted by TheFastCat: Less is more more or less

            And now I have an Etsy store: CattailsandCalendula

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            • Originally posted by Leida View Post
              Kim, I am with you. Just replacing the bad food with good food and having a champ exercise regimen is not going to make it! It takes either being young and childless (or genetically lucky) or the chronic shortage of food. If an average woman is full and not overeating, plus trains, she will end up in the 22-25% comfy zone and that set point will be held by the body no matter what you do, marathons, Olympic lifting or climbing Everest with no oxygen.



              I don't know what BF% I am, likely about 20% BF (who the heck knows, all the methods tell different, most of them giving me <20% number) but I lift, I eat healthy, I do HIT, and I do not look firm/muscular, even when I do have muscle now on the upper body. I still look soft and pudgy because of the fat on the thighs and the layer of fat around the waist. I don't think any man will honestly look at my figure and go: Whoa! HOT!" . I have my husband, so what other men think is irrelevant, but it is still far from what I want to see in the mirror. I want the muscle to show and no dribble, and no fat filling up the sit like dough in a plastic bag when I sit down on a char. I have a gut feeling that it comes with below 20% BF only if the fat distribution is localized.



              Merlyn Monroe's waistline was 22-23", she was comparable to the modern models in her built in Size 0-2 (READY TO WEAR! NOT PATTERN that is often quoted), but shorter. I walk, train, eat right, take care of my family, work and has been forever and ever, and my waist is still 26", and not budging.
              Leida, I really worry when I hear a woman who is at <20% body fat and has a 26" waist constantly refer to herself as fat. I am at about 20% with a 26" waist, and I'm delighted to be here. Would I like to maybe be a little leaner, perhaps 18%? Yes, but at 20% fat, you are leaner than the vast majority of women out there, and you are getting down toward the low end of a healthy body fat range for a woman. If you want to be ultra lean, then I understand that, but please stop calling where you are fat. Some of us battle enough body image demons already without hearing that our hard-earned lean and healthy bodies are still "fat". I also worry that you have some distorted body image ideas to talk about yourself the way you do.

              Oh, and Choco, I'm 5'8", 155 lbs, at 20% fat. I think your idea of what an athletic woman can weigh and look good is pretty off.
              “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

              Owly's Journal

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              • Originally posted by sakura_girl View Post
                I think that the American lifestyle of stressing themselves over work, and expecting everything else to come easy, is a huge part of it. Stress coming in from both sides.
                Yeah, and I would couple that with advertising. "You DESERVE this car/holiday/burger" is a pernicious message that creates a sense of entitlement that undermines attempts to expend effort to achieve goals, whether it's healthy eating or staying out of credit card debt.
                Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                Griff's cholesterol primer
                5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                bloodorchid is always right

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                • Originally posted by KimInGA View Post
                  and maybe, just maybe, a little higher BF % is where we're SUPPOSED to be. I'm not saying 40%, but 25%? Maybe.
                  There are some studies that indicate 24-28% body fat would be healthy for most women, and that below that starts the processes that would put women at health risk (though we know that below 15% is really risky for women, the reality is that each woman is different, so some women will have a problem at 20%, and others might at 25% and others at 18% etc).

                  I'm still trying to dig up the study -- I read it about a year ago.

                  Comment


                  • I really liked this "art essay" where an artist "thinned" women in the "great masters" paintings.

                    What is interesting to note is that when I look at the first pictures, I see "thin/fit" women. They are likely somewhere between 25-30% body fat, and then they are moved to the 15-18% of our current beauty ideals.

                    And by the by, above 30% is considered obese, and by some categories, over 28%, which means that *some* of the women in these painting (in the originals) would be considered 'obese.'

                    I find it interesting that most of us would not necessarily say that these women (in the original pictures) are 'fat' or 'unhealthy' -- but when you look at them side-to-side, it's really interesting how perception and reality interplay.

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                    • This is an interesting blog describing Marilyn Monroe's sizes.

                      According to her dressmaker, she was between 36-23-37 and 36-24-37. She was 5 ft 5.5in and between 118-140 lbs. The best sizes for a model these days? 5 ft 9 in, 33-36 in bust; 22-26 in waist; 33-37 in hips.

                      Jezebel weighs in, too.

                      Marilyn would have been "too short" to be a model, as would I, but our measurements fit their common measurements.

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                      • Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                        There are some studies that indicate 24-28% body fat would be healthy for most women, and that below that starts the processes that would put women at health risk (though we know that below 15% is really risky for women, the reality is that each woman is different, so some women will have a problem at 20%, and others might at 25% and others at 18% etc).

                        I'm still trying to dig up the study -- I read it about a year ago.
                        My best is somewhere around 26%. Any lower than that and it doesn't feel right, not to mention being near to impossible to maintain even when things are perfect, which never happens.
                        Durp.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by zoebird View Post
                          According to her dressmaker, she was between 36-23-37 and 36-24-37. She was 5 ft 5.5in and between 118-140 lbs. The best sizes for a model these days? 5 ft 9 in, 33-36 in bust; 22-26 in waist; 33-37 in hips.
                          Crap. Now I have the theme song from the movie "How to Stuff A Wild Bikini" in my head.

                          "36, 22, 36, that's how you... stuff a wild bikini"
                          Durp.

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                          • Originally posted by Owly View Post
                            Oh, and Choco, I'm 5'8", 155 lbs, at 20% fat. I think your idea of what an athletic woman can weigh and look good is pretty off.
                            Eh. You can still be 5'6", 155 lbs, and at 20% fat. Just more muscle :3
                            My chocolatey Primal journey

                            Unusual food recipes (plus chocolate) blog

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                            • Originally posted by sakura_girl View Post
                              Eh. You can still be 5'6", 155 lbs, and at 20% fat. Just more muscle :3
                              Yup. It's going to be different for everyone. For me (also 5'6"), 155 is about 28%. Most of my muscle is in my legs, but I could use more everywhere else.
                              Durp.

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                              • Originally posted by spacey47 View Post
                                One thing I would say on the subject of PE i

                                The one thing I learned from
                                That's two things.

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