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  • #16
    Originally posted by KimInGA View Post
    ... I have done every single thing anybody here has listed so far, except for cold thermogenesis (I have Raynaud's and my hands/feet completely drain of blood if exposed to the cold ...
    IOW, you've done suggestions 1 to 10 out of post #3's list of 11.

    In addition you've tried:

    • phenibut (post #4)

    • a fan blowing on you (post #6)

    • white noise and acupuncture (post #7)

    • iodine and selenium (post #10)

    and

    • benadryl (post #11)

    It's a bewildering array of suggestions.

    It's a shame you can't take the cold. It seems there's been some success getting insomniacs to sleep by providing them with chilled pillows. Those seem to be on the market now.

    I liked the long list in post number #3. I wondered about this one: "9. Learn meditative breathing". Could you re-visit that even if you've done something like it before? Not necessarily the breathing but some kind of meditative technique. You might experiment with these guided meditations that combine the "being still" aspect of traditional meditative techniques with binaural beats. They have apparently sent off a few people who have had trouble sleeping. Episode 1 might be worth a try, or episode 14, which is specifically aimed at sleep:

    The Meditation Podcast - learn to meditate, guided meditations, binaural beats - free download or subscribe in itunes

    Or a more traditional technique like mindfulness meditation might help.

    Here's an off-the-wall suggestion. I don't know whether it's ever been used for insomnia, but how about neurofeedback? It seems to be capable of re-regulating many brain functions and an impressive array of general biological responses. It's even been used with success with some previously highly intransigent problems like alcoholism and combat stress. It's not cheap, but if it would work for the purpose -- which is what I don't know -- it might be worth the cost. Among Paleo people, I know Nora Gedgaudas uses it. She seems quite approachable: maybe you could drop her a line and ask if it's ever been used for insomnia:

    Contact | Primal Body Primal Mind Diet and Nutrition
    Last edited by Lewis; 06-07-2012, 10:39 AM. Reason: spelling

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    • #17
      Why do you think you need to sleep at night?

      You may be nocturnal.

      I don't naturally sleep until at least 4:00 AM. Then, left to my own wild devices, I will wake in the early afternoon. They say about 1 in 100 people are nocturnal. We are needed. Throughout history as guardsmen and night-fire keepers, we have stood watch over the day-walkers. Much like the section of ADHD people have been essential for hunting and busting spies from other tribes, the nocturns have been maintained as a slice of humanity to help the whole. It is only recently that our niche has been eliminated and we have been forced to try living an unnatural daywalker schedule. If you think you may be a nocturn, you must stand strong. Work a night shift and find out how much better life is when you sleep when you were born to sleep.
      Crohn's, doing SCD

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Lewis View Post
        IOW, you've done suggestions 1 to 10 out of post #3's list of 11.

        In addition you've tried:

        • phenibut (post #4)

        • a fan blowing on you (post #6)

        • white noise and acupuncture (post #7)

        • iodine and selenium (post #10)

        and

        • benadryl (post #11)

        It's a bewildering array of suggestions.
        I missed the bit about phenibut and acupuncture, but yes to all the others. 9 years of insomnia (since I was 21) will do that. And yes I would agree that meditative breathing is great for de-stressing, and it does let me sink down into this totally relaxed state where I feel like I'm floating. Doesn't do any good though, I still feel like someone jammed a needle full of caffeine into my vein. You can be totally relaxed, physically exhausted and yet still unable to sleep ... they call it "wired and tired".

        Every night before bed, I (1) sit/walk outside around sunset, (2) drink no caffeine all day, (3) avoid looking at the TV or computer, and if I do for a short time the computer has F.lux on it, (4) eat virtually no sugar, even minimizing the amount of fruit I consume, (5) take melatonin, (6) take Serenagen, (7) take two different herbal remedies, (8) take Natural Calm, (9) take a bath in epsom salts with lavender oil, (10) sleep in a room with blackout curtains, (11) run an air cleaner for white noise, (12) put in earplugs if I can hear anything, (13) run the fan and (14) take unisom. That's just every night, and doesn't count the myriad of things I've tried and discarded after feeling that they didn't help (or made things worse, like iodine). It's totally nuts, right?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by KimInGA View Post
          Hmm I tried 5-HTP once and was awake the entire night after I took it. Afraid to try it a second time. Although I also had a similar experience with the much-vaunted iodine. I was literally buzzing all night, physically exhausted but feeling like someone had injected me with the caffeine in 8 espresso shots. I tried that about 4x, separated by a week or more in between, with the exact same results. No more iodine for me!!
          well, good to know it doesn't work with everyone.
          I'm currently off it thanks to cognitive therapy, worth trying too

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Nossar View Post
            well, good to know it doesn't work with everyone.
            I'm currently off it thanks to cognitive therapy, worth trying too
            Maybe I'll try that or the neurofeedback ... if the naturopath I just started seeing can't help. I've only seen her once so far so I'm gonna give her some more time. I like to give everything at least a month to possibly help, unless I have a REALLY strong reaction to it. Might also have to try to 5-HTP again but take it earlier like 5 pm. I would do just about anything at this point if I thought it would mean I could actually SLEEP ...

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            • #21
              Again, why do you think you need to sleep at night?
              Crohn's, doing SCD

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                Again, why do you think you need to sleep at night?
                Because I can't sleep at all during the day, unless I'm sick. You would think there's got to be SOME time of day when I can sleep, but I haven't found it yet ...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Is your life just really busy? I mean, are you employed and never get the chance to sleep?
                  Crohn's, doing SCD

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                    Is your life just really busy? I mean, are you employed and never get the chance to sleep?
                    Employed and busy, sure. But I don't think it's that much busier than anyone else with a job and a house and errands to run. I really don't feel stressed or unhappy. I think it's just 100% physical, like my body is releasing lots of cortisol at the wrong time or something. My entire life I've always been a super calm, even-keel type of person. And I dedicate 8.5-9 hours to "sleep" every night, starting with the time when I get really tired (10:00-10:30).

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                    • #25
                      Well I know magnesium helps a ton for me. And chamomile. Meditation is a necessity I cannot live without now. Even at work, as I walk the halls between blood draws, I make it a point to slow my heart rate and let things go, scribble down things I can't stop thinking about to get my mind clear and calm. To be honest, closing my eyes and focusing on getting between three and four heartbeats per breath really knocks me out fast. Imagining that my bed is on the waves of the ocean and feeling my body rise and fall also helps. Gosh, I'm loaded with tricks from my daywalker days. What else do I do? Oh, making that tingling sensation go from my head down my neck and through my organs feels great. And imagining I'm riding a dove across a fantasy sky with happy anime clouds like happy marshmallows seems to work. Heck, imagining anything long enough will get me to REM pretty fast. But the key to all these tricks working is largely being able to make your brain shut up. Train the mind to stop, and the spirit can fly.
                      Crohn's, doing SCD

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by KimInGA View Post
                        Every night before bed, I (1) sit/walk outside around sunset, (2) drink no caffeine all day, (3) avoid looking at the TV or computer, and if I do for a short time the computer has F.lux on it, (4) eat virtually no sugar, even minimizing the amount of fruit I consume, (5) take melatonin, (6) take Serenagen, (7) take two different herbal remedies, (8) take Natural Calm, (9) take a bath in epsom salts with lavender oil, (10) sleep in a room with blackout curtains, (11) run an air cleaner for white noise, (12) put in earplugs if I can hear anything, (13) run the fan and (14) take unisom. That's just every night, and doesn't count the myriad of things I've tried and discarded after feeling that they didn't help (or made things worse, like iodine). It's totally nuts, right?
                        Yeah, it is totally nuts. I think you're making yourself a little crazy. Whenever someone gives me a laundry list, I tune out.

                        Try sleeping fewer hours. Give yourself five hours a night. And if you start falling asleep as soon as you hit the pillow, go to five and half, etc... but don't worry about getting to eight. Some people need less sleep.

                        Just don't make yourself crazy about it.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Rojo View Post
                          Yeah, it is totally nuts. I think you're making yourself a little crazy. Whenever someone gives me a laundry list, I tune out.

                          Try sleeping fewer hours. Give yourself five hours a night. And if you start falling asleep as soon as you hit the pillow, go to five and half, etc... but don't worry about getting to eight. Some people need less sleep.

                          Just don't make yourself crazy about it.
                          Oh man, but I need a LOT more. I've gotten 5 hours each night this week and I feel like the walking dead right now. To someone who's never experienced it, I'm sure it's hard to imagine that you can be really, really tired ... like feel like you have the flu, totally exhausted, thinking of nothing but sleep ... but then unable to sleep.

                          And the laundry list sounds ridiculous, I know. Trouble is, without it, I don't sleep AT ALL. I can go days on end without a wink of sleep. Being extraordinarily tired but just tossing and turning for 9 hours straight is highly unpleasant, trust me.

                          Tonight I've already decided, I'm caving in and taking 100mg of Unisom. It's the only thing that can overcome the caffeine-like effects of whatever my body is producing (I suspect cortisol).

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                          • #28
                            Have you tried actively reducing all contributors to cortisol production?
                            Crohn's, doing SCD

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                              Have you tried actively reducing all contributors to cortisol production?
                              All the ones I know about!
                              - Dim lights only after dark
                              - Bath w/epsom salts, lavendar
                              - Remove stressors from daily life
                              - Eat high quality protein, little to no sugar, lots of good fats, gluten free, plenty of Omega 3
                              - No caffeine
                              The ones I can't normally check off are "get enough sleep" (kind of a catch 22, isn't it??) and "enough" exercise. I do get some exercise, but it's hard to get enough when I feel like ZOMBIE WOMAN most days.

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                              • #30
                                Yeah, that's a pretty good list. Also try to feel fuzzy inside often. Like when you get handed a cute kitten and it melts you. Then master the activation of that sensation and deploy it often at will. Goes a long way in diffusing stress.
                                Crohn's, doing SCD

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