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  • Originally posted by Chaohinon View Post
    Meh Ron Paul. The state releasing its controls on everything except for women's uteri does not liberty make.
    He told Leno in the last interview that he is NOT against the morning after pill. In fact, he's mentioned he would treat a rape victim with estrogen to reduce the chance of pregnancy. What I've heard him say is he believes life begins at conception. But, when conception actually happens is not totally clear. What he's correct about is it does not need to be a federal issue.

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    • Originally posted by Chaohinon View Post
      Meh Ron Paul. The state releasing its controls on everything except for women's uteri does not liberty make.
      Wedge issue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      Considering only Ron Paul gets criticism for this and not every other candidate who has a similar or identical stance on the issue, this is the conclusion I reach.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by js290 View Post
        He told Leno in the last interview that he is NOT against the morning after pill. In fact, he's mentioned he would treat a rape victim with estrogen to reduce the chance of pregnancy. What I've heard him say is he believes life begins at conception. But, when conception actually happens is not totally clear. What he's correct about is it does not need to be a federal issue.
        To add to this, Ron Paul is a constitutionalist. Anything not specified in the Constitution, by default, is left up to the states. How hypocritical would it be for a constitutionalist to make one exception and abuse his position of power just like the hundreds of other politicians already do.
        | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

        “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

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        • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
          First I want to make an observation; I find the 2 terms used in this thread, Statists and Anarcho-Capitalists problematic.These terms are unnecessarily opaque. From what I've gathered in this thread a Statist is a Liberal Reformist who believes the role of government to to mitigate the effects of capitalism and an Anarcho-Capitalist is a Free Market Entrepreneur who believes that the less government the better.

          Statist and Anarcho-Capitalist are both on the same train and that train is headed straight off a cliff.

          The Statists want to make every one as comfortable as possible and feel there must be some sort of governing structure to ensure that it happens. The most perceptive of this group want to find a way to slow the train down.

          Anarcho-Capitalists want to be able to sell seats on that train unencumbered by regulations. The few in this group who are aware of where the train is headed think they should be rewarded for their cleverness.

          Neither group is really saying anything new. One thing to keep in mind is: there is no way to change the trajectory of the train, the tracks were laid long ago, thousands of years ago.
          Talk about presenting a false dilemma then beating down a straw man...

          Your use of the term liberal doesn't have much meaning as it's been equivocated by various sides of the political spectrum. Anarchy still allows for voluntary statism. It's called syndicalism. Not sure why anybody would choose this as it doesn't address the principal-agent problem, but as long as it's voluntary. Therein lies the difference. The state imposes social structure by threat of force. Anarchy, OTOH, promotes voluntary association. Just like we voluntarily choose to associate here on MDA.

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          • You see a lot of straw men, don't you?

            I guess it's a convenient way of dismissing points of view you don't agree with.
            Last edited by magicmerl; 05-06-2012, 06:20 PM.
            Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

            Griff's cholesterol primer
            5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
            Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
            TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
            bloodorchid is always right

            Comment


            • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
              You see a lot of straw men, don't you?
              Stop committing them?

              Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
              I guess it's a convenient way of dismissing points of view you don't agree with.
              No, that's how Straw Man Fallacy is used to dismiss someone else's point. If you're going to argue, don't misrepresent the other person's premises.

              Logical Fallacies» Straw Man Fallacy
              A straw man argument is one that misrepresents a position in order to make it appear weaker than it actually is, refutes this misrepresentation of the position, and then concludes that the real position has been refuted. This, of course, is a fallacy, because the position that has been claimed to be refuted is different to that which has actually been refuted; the real target of the argument is untouched by it.

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              • But, you are misrepresenting other people's positions by accusing them of putting forward straw men.
                Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                Griff's cholesterol primer
                5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                bloodorchid is always right

                Comment


                • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                  But, you are misrepresenting other people's positions by accusing them of putting forward straw men.
                  LOL... You're still trying to reconcile how you can support a system that feeds its people faux foods that makes them sick so that they require a healthcare system that has the problems you enumerated? I happen to agree with the problems you've listed, BTW.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                    But, you are misrepresenting other people's positions by accusing them of putting forward straw men.
                    I don't think he's accusing anybody of using straw men, he's pointing out when they actually do it. Big difference.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by js290 View Post
                      LOL... You're still trying to reconcile how you can support a system that feeds its people faux foods that makes them sick so that they require a healthcare system that has the problems you enumerated? I happen to agree with the problems you've listed, BTW.
                      Let me see if I'm doing this right.

                      Nice.... straw man.

                      Yes?

                      Edit: taking it slightly further, with regards to healthcare, I don't think that it's helpful for *any* participant here to characterise others as being in support for the status quo US medical system. What we are all talking about is the alternatives that we think are better than the current status quo, yes?

                      Can we agree on that? Then it becomes a matter of exploring the implications of the various alternatives.
                      Last edited by magicmerl; 05-06-2012, 07:28 PM.
                      Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

                      Griff's cholesterol primer
                      5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
                      Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
                      TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
                      bloodorchid is always right

                      Comment


                      • The Judge asks, "Whatever became of the right to be left alone?"

                        Must see video for anyone who could use a dose of reality.

                        | My (food) Blog | Follow me on Facebook | Pinterest | Twitter |

                        “It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.” - Samuel Adams

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by canio6 View Post
                          Can I just get off and walk?
                          Right on Canio! Maybe we could have a dance and a picnic.
                          Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                            Edit: taking it slightly further, with regards to healthcare, I don't think that it's helpful for *any* participant here to characterise others as being in support for the status quo US medical system. What we are all talking about is the alternatives that we think are better than the current status quo, yes?

                            Can we agree on that?
                            Try to keep up... I've agreed with you on the enumerated problems with the healthcare system, twice. It's important to define status quo. For me the status quo is defined by the perverse incentives caused by the inflationary monetary policy. If you do not understand that our debt based monetary system is the fundamental cause of the problems you correctly observe, then this argument will continue to be filled with fallacies of ambiguity and rhetorical. I think your problem is really that you're finding it hard to corner the anarchist argument with your pre-canned rhetoric.

                            Originally posted by magicmerl View Post
                            Then it becomes a matter of exploring the implications of the various alternatives.
                            Yes, I have offered one alternative that allows for both your desired solutions and my desired solutions: decentralization. In a previous post in this thread about anarchy, I defined anarchy as the solution to the principal-agent problem: principal = agent. Decentralization encourages the principal to be his own agent and is a step in the right direction. Decentralization in context of the USA is simply moving power back to the state and local govt. If your state wants to implement mandated healthcare, fantastic. If my state does not, also fantastic. Notice, I haven't made any value judgements on mandate vs no mandate. Because for each state, the circumstances will be different. Which ever state has the worse plan will eventually have the incentive to do better. Even if they don't, eventually people will vote with their feet and move to a more reasonable state.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                              Right on Canio! Maybe we could have a dance and a picnic.
                              Only if the TSA says it's safe...

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Urban Forager View Post
                                Right on Canio! Maybe we could have a dance and a picnic.
                                I don't dance well, but the picnic sounds good.

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