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  • #31
    1



    arthur: I don't think you realize how offensive your statement "most fat people choose to be fat" is. If they are not aware of how the body works - and CW makes sure that most people aren't - then deriding them for their choices which are made without the necessary information to make the right choices is unkind at best and cruel at worst. Saying they're "choosing" implies they know what the choices are. And we all know that when you're eating the SAD, not eating is just as bad for your body as eating.


    It's not a choice if it's not an informed choice. CW does everything it can to make sure that people are uninformed.


    I will be frank: I tend to cringe when I see that you've responded to me, because your responses almost always come across as if you think you are somehow superior to me because you work out and work on getting a ripped body, and I don't. You seem to think that that somehow makes me less deserving of respect than you, because right now I'm just focusing on my blood sugars and not trying to have the ripped, "normative" body that you seem to think everyone should have. I don't like responding to you because I always wonder when that attitude is going to pop up again.


    The fact of the matter is, SerialSinner is right. CW and big business work together to keep Americans ignorant of what their food choices do to their bodies. And I hate to tell you this, but you're not helping the problem by blaming the people who are being fooled.

    Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

    Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


    Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

    My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

    Comment


    • #32
      1



      I think I get it.


      I read this "Being skinny is easy to maintain once you get there... so hurry up and get down here "


      And I was definitely, inexplicably offended. I mean, we are all trying like hell. There is no hurrying to be had or convincing to be done.

      Comment


      • #33
        1



        arthur: And what amazes me the most is, you start out saying that it isn't about willpower, and that fat people aren't lazy, etc., acknowledging that the common view of fat people is fundamentally incorrect - and then you trot out the "people choose to be fat" canard. Don't you see that that is PART of the common view of fat people which is fundamentally incorrect?


        It's not a choice if you aren't aware of what the choices really are. How many people has CW bamboozled and brainwashed into believing they DO know what their choices are?


        But you know they don't, and I know they don't, and so saying "it's a choice" is offensive. Because you KNOW that they don't know what we know about nutrition and health.


        That's why I'm offended.

        Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

        Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


        Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

        My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

        Comment


        • #34
          1



          @stop_hammertime: Yes, that's exactly the point I'm trying to make here.

          Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

          Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


          Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

          My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

          Comment


          • #35
            1



            I was just saying that's how some people view significantly overweight people.


            Even by CW standards, french fries, soda and pizza are not ok if you are trying to stay in shape


            If you find yourself 20 pounds overweight, a bell should go off in your head... "hmmm, I'm doing something wrong here."

            Comment


            • #36
              1



              arthur: And the fact that it doesn't go off for most people is their fault? It sounds to me like that's what you're saying.


              I'm not going to respond to you here anymore because obviously I'm not getting through. Maybe someone else can help you understand why your responses are offensive, but I apparently can't.

              Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

              Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


              Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

              My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

              Comment


              • #37
                1



                arthur- You mean that bell...the one that has been ringing every day of my life since I was 9 years old. Yeah, I hear it loud and clear.


                Makes things harder if anything

                Comment


                • #38
                  1



                  Sorry man... didn't mean to offend you.


                  I guess I just think people should take responsibility for themselves... and not blame Pizza Hut or the government because they are 200lbs overweight. I just don't view obese people as helpless victims.


                  Sure the info out there isn't great but even CW says fast food, chips, soda and sweets are not a good choice and that's how most people end up overweight. Nevermind lack of physical activity.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    1



                    arthur: Many people out there are unaware of how bad the carbs are for them, and many of them think that they're doing the right thing by eating pasta instead of steak. Many of them think that baked chips are okay because they're low-fat. Most of them think they ARE taking responsibility for themselves, because they've been conditioned to think that way about what they're eating. And sure, CW says "it's bad for you" but you probably have no idea how strong the push to conform and eat the same way everyone else does is for most people.


                    You're being incredibly judgmental, and it's really off-putting.

                    Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                    Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                    Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                    My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      1



                      I understand the point, Griff. I think the airline industry does have much to answer for, but not necessarily for seat size. That's something of a red herring.


                      Case in point, the seats were built and measured at a time when people were generally thinner. They haven't kept up very well. Some seats are larger and roomier. First Class for instance, or even Business Class. They also cost more. To increase seat size means to fly fewer passengers, which affects their bottom dollar. In order to fly fewer passengers each trip, they will need to increase the rates exorbitantly, and people will complain about that,too.


                      But again, that's a red herring we're getting stuck on. Being overweight isn't something people choose to do. Being ignorant is sometimes something people choose to do. What annoys me the most is willful ignorance - having the tools and the knowledge, and refusing to look. But that's not most people, and there are many, many factors involved. It's not just food, because the mind and emotions are often involved.

                      Start weight: 250 - 06/2009
                      Current weight: 199
                      Goal: 145

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        1



                        arthur....most people wind up overweight because of DIETING.


                        Yes, DIETING.


                        I was 13 years old the first time I joined WW. Looking back on pictures, I wonder why. I was just not a small girl, that's all. But I dutifully starved, lost weight, then binged and gained more. I repeated this cycle over and over, each time struggling more to lose and gaining more back.


                        I have NEVER been a junk food junkie. I don't eat fast food, ever. I am good cook.


                        But I have had a damaged metabolism from repeated cycles of conventional dieting, diets recommended to me by physicians.


                        We are getting fatter as a society because of the diet industry on the one hand and the food industry on the other----coupled with the absolute effort it takes to avoid being sedentary.


                        Do you know that my husband and I actually moved homes because we were living in a cul-de-sac in a suburban neighborhood bounded by sidewalk-less highways? I hated it that my kids were trapped on our block like rats in a maze. So we moved to a village, one block from the main street, and my kids were able to walk EVERYWHERE because there were SIDEWALKS.


                        It's insiduous, the things that consprire in our environment to make us unhealthy.


                        Sooze

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          1



                          "And sure, CW says "it's bad for you" but you probably have no idea how strong the push to conform and eat the same way everyone else does is for most people."


                          People make fun of my food all the time It goes with following the paelo/primal approach.


                          Pressure to eat the same way as everyone esle?!? Who cares what other people think. Even when following CW, I made "good" choices... like brown rice and caught guff... who cares.


                          I'm not trying to be a jerk (although I guess that's how I sound) but try to understand it from the other side of the fence too. It sounds like you don't want to take responsibility for your weight.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            1



                            I think everyone on this forum is taking a huge step towards being responsible for their weight. Unless you mean you as in people in general...

                            Start weight: 250 - 06/2009
                            Current weight: 199
                            Goal: 145

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              1



                              Griff,


                              Most of what you're saying is completely valid. The only thing I'm having a hard time understanding is your own personal stance on being fat. You've mentioned multiple times in the MDA forum that you only want to be healthier and that you have no real interest in losing weight for any reason other than health. I believe you've said before that you like being fat and like the way you look.

                              I applaud you for that, and that's fine with me.

                              I think people should be able to look and do pretty much whatever they want. The only disconnect is that you say you feel "humiliated" when people react to your appearance or to the objective fact that you are too big to fit in an airplane seat without infringing on the space that others have paid for. Why?


                              The reality of the situation is that some people are too big to fit in one seat. This doesn't just apply to fat people but to pro bodybuilders or football players as well; they're really big. Everyone else paid for the space they're taking up, and if you need more space, pay for more space. On an airplane, you're paying for space on the airplane. I don't understand how that's "discriminating"... it's just accounting for the reality of the situation.


                              How exactly are we supposed to treat fat people in a more respectful way? Are people just supposed to pretend that you aren't fat? Should we offer to drive you places in our cramped compact cars or try to cram into an elevator with you when there isn't enough space?

                              I'm not being sarcastic here. I really want to know your take on this.


                              I have fat friends, and we treat each other with kindness and respect... but they also realize that there's some objective limitations to their physiology.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                1



                                @arthur: Trust me, I never ate at McD's or BK or Pizza Hut, when I was overweight. I truly thought I was eating healthy when I chose whole grains over fatty cuts of meat. If I wanted pizza, I made it at home with whole-wheat flour at home. I chose the over-priced multi-grain pasta over regular pasta, believing I was making healthy choices. I worked out regularly. I was still fat! I tried everything I could, given the information I had available to me, to lose weight other than starving myself and working out 5 hours a day. Griff summed it up precisely, "It's not a choice if you aren't aware of what the choices really are."


                                And I agree completely with Serial Sinner, the subsidies need to be stopped and an end has to be put to the lies we are being fed day in and day out.

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