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  • #16
    1



    "My husband's life is getting smaller as he is getting bigger."


    --Sooze


    This sums up my experience. As I have grown in size, the experiences I used to enjoy--playing basketball, playing outsode with my children, dressing up for a night on the town--have become inaccessible. It's the reason I chose to follow a more Primal lifestyle; I want to DO things.


    As my world grew smaller, I went through all the normal emotions--disbelief, embarrassment, anger. Though I am not morbidly obese, I am fat, and people have commented on it. It hurt, but it was the truth, unvarnished as it was.


    I realized that my life was as disjointed as my diet. As I let my weight go, I let other things go, as well. My life had no intention. Starting Primal is my first step of putting intention into my life, living the life I want to live.


    The value of a person is not measured by size. That value is not measured by what a person says. Value is measured by what you do--what you offer yourself, your loved ones, and mankind in general. And folks of all sizes can do and offer. The point of the PB, as I see it, is to make ourselves healthier so we can do more and offer more to ourselves, our loved ones, and the world.

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    • #17
      1



      I gotta speak in opposition of this. I'm not for being cruel to the obese for who they are, but if their obesity puts them in situations which are cruel, that's not my problem, nor the airlines' problem. That's my gripe with fat-activism; there's no solution. Under-booking a flight, overhauling their seating designs, or telling other paying customers to "deal" with the fat person spilling into the seat they paid for are not options. This is how our country got fat in the first place. It's increasing the cupholder sizes in cars to fit our Super Big Gulps, the average dinner plate going from under 10 inches to 12 - 13 inches, the Super Size meals at McDonalds. Loosen the belt enough times and soon enough, you run out of notches.


      I don't think this should matter, but I'll say that 6 months ago, I was in the extremely obese BMI category. I was the fat kid in grade school, scared to death to play on the skins team in gym class. I dropped most of my excess, but I felt the same back then as I do now.

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      • #18
        1

        ...
        Last edited by Asturian; 09-08-2010, 03:06 PM.
        “It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creeds into law if it acquires the political power to do so, and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young, and by killing, locking up, or driving underground all heretics.”
        —Robert A. Heinlein

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        • #19
          1



          The rights of one should not infringe upon the rights of the whole.

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          • #20
            1



            Griff, I read your post, but I do not have the time right now to read all the other replies. I am not over-weight, but I truly believe that nobody who is over-weight or obese chooses to be that way. People are simply given the wrong information about how to be healthy. It is the fault of the food industry when it comes down to it.


            As for finding comfortable space on airplanes for everyone, who should pay? The crap-food industry should be the ones to pay for the addition of a few larger seats reserved for people who are over-weight, or who have other special needs. Or, the airlines should take it upon themselves to cater to ALL people, no charge--this should be good for business. You should not have to pay, and you should not be humiliated.

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            • #21
              1



              @gottaluvalab "Imagine how a 19 year old buxom but healthy and attractive girl feels standing in a line at the college bookstore and listening to a couple of gusy "check out" a perfectly attractive and slim girl, saying to each other, "Hot as a friend, but too fat to ----." At 19, being that girl, a little part of my will to fight my own metabolism died. And a little part died every day because of comments such as this."


              I was that girl, too. I know exactly what that feels like. We need compassion, but we also need education.


              Considering the questions someone raised above: Once we supersize everything, have we lowered our expectations of health as a society?

              Start weight: 250 - 06/2009
              Current weight: 199
              Goal: 145

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              • #22
                1



                Some people have gotten the point, and some people have sort of gotten the point. And a few people haven't gotten the point at all.


                My point is this. Fat people, by and large (so to speak), don't choose to be fat. Saying things like "fat biffa" or insinuating that the fat dietician, who has been trained in CW all her career, should somehow magically "know" that CW is wrong and that's why she's fat - those things are insulting and derogatory and, frankly, beneath anyone I've met here. And my points about the plane were to bring it home that, free market or not, it's still not okay to say the things I've read here in the last few days. My point about the plane was that the fat person is not fat just to inconvenience YOU. Believe me, it's a lot more inconvenient for THEM than it is for you. I know, because I've been them more than once. And treating them as if they're being fat at you, intentionally? Not helpful, especially if they're a grieving person on the way to their mother's deathbed (and you don't know that they're not).


                As far as the price of airline seating, well, the airlines have a lot to answer for, in my opinion. They keep cramming more and more people into smaller and smaller spaces, which means that someone over 5'10 and 180 pounds, which is a normative size, is going to be squashed even if he's sitting next to two other people who are the same size as him because there simply isn't enough space even for a "normal" person in those seats anymore. It's time for the airlines to widen the seats and have a few less passengers per plane. But that's an entirely different discussion, and not the one I wanted to have.


                The discussion I'm trying to have is one about respect. It has seemed to me from some of the comments I've read here in the last few days that respect is lacking for people who are fat, and that bothered me, and so I decided it was time to speak up about it. I decided to remind people that when they swing that broad brush and paint fat people with derogatory terms, it hits me too - because I'm a fat person. Even after six months of PB, I'm still a fat person.


                That's all.

                Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

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                • #23
                  1



                  Griff, thanks for sharing your story.


                  About flying, I do understand airline requests to require big-enough people to purchase 2 seats. It's based on the basic premise that one's rights end when other people's rights begin. Tarlach's photo should illustrate this point clearly enough.


                  On the other hand, I think that we really need to change America's perspective about obesity.


                  People who don't know better and have had the luck to be raised free of metabolism-hijacking foods or happen to be genetically better equipped to handle sugar than average tend to see obesity as the result of lack of discipline, laziness and gluttony.


                  The above is a direct consequence of the calorie-in / calorie-out mentality. "Obese people are obese because they eat too much". No. Obese people are obese because they happened to eat enough starch and fructose/O-6 rich foods at the wrong time, triggering metabolic changes and obesity.


                  Obese people are victims of a system that subsidizes corn, allowing the fast food industry to thrive, injecting HFCS in everything and promoting the irrational premise of low fat/high carb diets.


                  Griff, if I was a "fat activist" I would leave the airline issue and focus on the root problem: cracking CW and politics/healthcare/food companies. Obese people are victims of the system and should group up and force the government to acknowledge that subsidizing crap food and persisting in misinforming the public -all thanks to corporate lobbying- has resulted in 1/3 of America being overweight. Who is being held accountable?

                  “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
                  "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
                  "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

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                  • #24
                    1

                    [quote]

                    My point is this. Fat people, by and large (so to speak), don&#39;t choose to be fat.</blockquote>


                    you beat me by a minute

                    “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
                    "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
                    "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

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                    • #25
                      1



                      What would you prefer airlines do? Lose the money for an extra seat to accommodate people?


                      As others have said, don&#39;t you think people who have paid for their seats deserve to sit comfortably as well? Do your feelings of embarrassment somehow take priority over that?


                      At my highest weight I was 100lbs overweight and I never would have ever questioned an airline if they requested I get two seats. Am I taking up the space? Then I need to pay.


                      Everyday most people encounter disparaging comments about something that relates to them. To sanitize everything we say to spare feelings seems reactionary and pointless (the sentiment still exists but then it just evolves in to unexpressed bigotry and vitriol)


                      And for the record Kevin Smith actually fit in the seat and that is a good part of what made him angry.


                      If airlines wanted or needed business from overweight passengers they would change their policy, but they have not. You are using your consumer vote for what you believe in and that is a very good thing to do.


                      As a whole your post was more about comments on MDA which I have either missed are was not offended by and do not remember them. I think it is reasonable to request that people be sensitive to members who are still losing weight, although I wouldn&#39;t go so far as to request the same.


                      Edit: My plane response was started before Griff&#39;s second post.

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                      • #26
                        1



                        Griff, thanks for posting about this. I&#39;m one of the morbidly obese here and seeing the harsh comments that often pop up in regard to the obese is disheartening.


                        In regards to the Airline issue, it&#39;s public transportation plain and simple. It&#39;s supposed to suck...for EVERYONE. Yet, the obese are the only demographic singled-out for making others uncomfortable.


                        Screaming kids and brats kicking the back of the seat are uncomfortable. The person in front of you reclining their seat into your lap is uncomfortable. The tall guy with his legs stretched into your foot space is annoying and instrusive. The guy next to you with BO, the lady on the other side of you with obnoxious perfume, and the two hens behind you clucking away are all obnoxious and annoying and discomforting.


                        This is just the reality of public transportation. Thankfully airlines serve alcohol to help us cope with all the annoyances.


                        The safety issue of obese passengers is thrown around all the time but no one ever specifies exactly what those safety concerns are. The only legitimate one I can think of is the weight of the plane but the airlines adjust for that issue.

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                        • #27
                          1



                          Griff, thanks for sharing your thoughts. I know it took courage to share them.


                          I completely understand what you&#39;re saying about respect. Certainly you&#39;re responding to comments made in these forums and blogs etc.


                          However, I find it really offensive that some fat activists assume that all thin people are somehow inconvenienced by fat people. I&#39;m not inconvenienced. I&#39;m just a person, going along on my path, who meets and interacts with other people who are also on their path. I assume that wasn&#39;t your point, but I&#39;ve been reading blogs too and just wanted to get it out there. Some thin people respect everyone. We usually practice a lot of yoga .


                          gini


                          p.s. For the record, I&#39;m what some would consider to be thin: 5&#39;10" and 140 lbs. And trust me, planes are not comfortable for me either. I have three feet of leg. Where am I supposed to put them, airplanes?

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                          • #28
                            1



                            I am curious to see some of these posts, I really have not noticed rude comments directed at fat people.


                            Maybe there is something I am not getting?

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                            • #29
                              1



                              "Obese people are victims of a system that subsidizes corn, allowing the fast food industry to thrive, injecting HFCS in everything and promoting the irrational premise of low fat/high carb diets."


                              Very true. Something has happened in our food supply over the last 25 years to trigger this change. When I first moved to Southern AZ in 1986, I remember being told that people moving here lost 5-10 pounds due to the extreme heat and I experienced that myself. While there were heavy people here (my future husband among them), they tended to be overweight in a "classic" sense (carrying the extra weight all over)


                              We left AZ for Connecticut in 1992. People seemed heavier there, but I figured it was due to the colder climate. However, when we returned to AZ in 2002, we were shocked at the amount of obesity we were seeing. Many, many more people were overweight, they were much MORE overweight than previously, and they were carrying the weight differently - now one sees people carrying the extra weight disproportionately around their middles).


                              Did people suddenly become less caring about what they eat? Perhaps, but enough to cause this? Probably not. Is the food that most people are consuming less healthy than it was 20-25 years ago? My guess is yes.

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                              • #30
                                1



                                Overweight people should be treated the same as everyone else. You are 100% right, they are not treated the same. A lot of folks view overweight people as lazy, don&#39;t care about themselves, mentally weak, no willpower, etc. It&#39;s not right but it&#39;s true. I have no idea what can be done about that... except the fact that more people are becoming overweight in America so the "norm" may change.


                                Airplanes suck... way too small for "average" people, nevermind overweight. I wish they were bigger. How should they handle larger people... I don&#39;t know.


                                I disagree on one topic


                                "Most" fat people choose to be fat.


                                Every time you eat a cookie, you are choosing to be fat. Every time you go to burger king, you are choosing to be fat. Every time you skip a workout, you are choosing to be fat. You don&#39;t wake up fat... it&#39;s a gradual thing... but it was your choice.


                                Sure you can say you were fooled by some slick media marketing making Cookies seem ok or McD&#39;s seem ok... but that&#39;s like saying I am an alocholic because of Budweiser commercials.


                                Being skinny is easy to maintain once you get there... so hurry up and get down here


                                -Arthur

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