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80/20 Delusions

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  • 80/20 Delusions

    When I read the PB, it was my understanding that the 20% applied to the program as a whole. But reading the forums, you see people who omit 3 or more entire rules(taking them down to a max compliance of 70%), and cheat on the ones they follow, and claim compliance.

    Thoughts?
    Lifting Journal

  • #2
    Isn't the 80/20 rule that up to 20% of calories can come from non paleo foods, rather than an indication of how many rules are to be followed?

    Are you coming to this conclusion from reading detailed food logs in journals?
    Last edited by paleo-bunny; 01-27-2012, 11:38 AM. Reason: grammar
    F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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    • #3
      yeah, i think the 80/20 rule is horribly misunderstood. it's not supposed to be allowing cheating. a plate of spaghetti with a cookie dough ice-cream sauce is not part of the 20%...it's crap.
      the 80/20 rule is about aiming for 100% and hitting at least 80% for success. i eat conventional meats and vegetables if i can't afford grass fed and organic; that's my 20%.

      granted, even mark likes to live outside his own primal laws and gobble up some crappy food...but it's a rare occurrence, not part of a weekly meal plan.
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

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      • #4
        I think Mark applies 80/20 to the food rule. How can you realistically (an sanely) apply the rule to moving frequently, or playing? for example
        www.beatingorthorexia.co.uk

        No more diets. No more stress. Health made easy. Living made incredible.

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        • #5
          I thought the 20 was ONLY wine, dark chocolate, white rice, tubers and full fat home made ice cream with maple syrup and raw dairy, raw honey <----PB approved 'cheats'.

          You mean, I could've had a plate of noodles or pie every day? Cause 2 paleo meals, 2 paleo snacks and 1 CW meal would make it 80/20, right? =P

          LOL

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          • #6
            Wow, if people are assuming 80/20 means you can follow only 80% of the recommendations, that's really misinterpreted. I mean, just ignoring the recommendation to avoid industrial seed oils right there, just that one rule, probably guarantees failure right there. The 80/20 rule would say you avoid industrial seed oils all the time but acknowledge that at times you will probably end up eating some. Like this morning when I ate some scrambled eggs someone else made. The likelihood they were fried in grass-fed butter or bacon grease is probably zero. But when I make eggs myself they are cooked in grass-fed butter or bacon grease all the time.
            Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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            • #7
              In my opinion, the 80/20 rule is there to keep people from going crazy (as I have been doing). I don't think it is possible for anyone to be 100% primal all the time, no matter how hard they try. Some conventionally raised meat, eggs, seafood, vegetables, etc. are going to get in from time to time.

              I personally don't really spend time quantifying how often I'm not perfect about PB. It is probably more often than I think, even when I'm really trying. I am using the 80% rule as my sanity clause. I can't be perfect, and that's okay.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Issabeau View Post
                I thought the 20 was ONLY wine, dark chocolate, white rice, tubers and full fat home made ice cream with maple syrup and raw dairy, raw honey <----PB approved 'cheats'.
                yep, but i would call these sensible indulgences...not necessarily foods that should be 20% of someone's diet (except maybe the tubers and rice for those who want more carbs).
                http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

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                • #9
                  80/20 is fine... but if i hear anyone complain that they can't lose weight, and they're doing 80/20, i laugh. your problem is obvious.

                  i'll be honest, i use stevia and drink diet soda and chew sugarless gum. that's my 20. the food is clean, and the exercise is there.

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                  • #10
                    Example of 20% = conventional meats, bacon, almond milk, non-organic vegetables, dark chocolate, stevia, wine and beer.
                    Example of crap you should never eat: pizza, pasta, vegetable oils, cake and ice cream.

                    Chocolate cake isn't part of your 20%, bacon is part of your 20%.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Issabeau View Post
                      white rice, tubers
                      White rice and tubers are absolutely not part of your 20%. They are perfectly fine, healthy, Primal-approved sources of clean glucose. Whether or not you want to eat chronic low-carb is up to you, but since Primal is not a low-carb diet, these are not cheats. I eat copious amounts of both and feel much better now that I do.
                      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                      • #12
                        I think Mark makes it pretty clear that 20% deviation is a maximum and one should aim to deviate a lot less than that. The rule's there particularly to help those starting out, so they don't get too hung up when they can't resist temptation from the foods they used to eat every day, and when they have to compromise when eating out.

                        I don't count white rice or tubers in my 20%. It makes no sense to lump them together with processed foods laden with sugar, PUFA and trans fats.

                        It's just a guideline and some cheats are worse than others. I think it's possible and desirable to completely eliminate some of the forbidden foods like wholegrains.
                        Last edited by paleo-bunny; 01-27-2012, 12:16 PM. Reason: typo
                        F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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                        • #13
                          I interpreted 80%/20% as, for every single thing you put in your mouth, you strive to make it paleo or the best that you can. With life the way it is, if you strive for it, you'll probably succeed about 80% of the time. But I also took not to drive yourself crazy over it. If trying to find "perfect" foods is driving you nuts or causing significant stress, strain on your budget, etc. you have to relax somewhat.

                          Honestly, I'm focusing first on just cutting grains and upping my vegetables and good fats. Most of the time, I'm at about 60%/40% with minimum effort. Yesterday I was at about 90%, but that was a good day. My 10% there was a bit of sweetener in a mug of green tea. If I really wanted to get picky, my PUFAs were probably too high, since I had some sunflower seeds. You can end up driving yourself crazy over this in the beginning, depending on the type of personality you have.

                          I think the point of 80%/20% is to try your best - truly your best and not just saying you're trying. Some days you will do better than others, but if you strive for that high bar, you'll probably end up in a good place, provided you're not rationalizing "trying."

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                          • #14
                            Remember the 80/20 Principle | Mark&#039;s Daily Apple
                            If you go to the archives and put in 80/20 rules you will come up with a lot of differernt blogs on the subject............

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                            • #15
                              I'm astonished that I'm pretty much the only one who views the 80/20 rule as apply to all the laws, i.e. LHT, moving sprinting, etc.
                              Lifting Journal

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