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  • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
    I don't think that is true. Boys still do manly aggressive things- football, hunt etc. Look at the gang culture. No lack of aggression there. To be sure, there is the couch subset, but they are the minority. And I think that we teach boys when aggression is right or wrong and it's of a net benefit.
    I am aware not all are influenced by femininity(thank the universe for that), and I know not one male(adult or not) ever completely loses their over-manliness side, but are often scolded when it appears from a long sleep. This probably occurs more in religious families than anywhere else though in my opinion, the idea to look to a "god" then your self and your intuition is what causes it for the most part.
    Last edited by Loneketo; 11-12-2012, 04:23 PM.

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    • Originally posted by Loneketo View Post
      So you afraid of the truth or something? The United States especially has become feminized by feminist bullshit and the fact they bring younger adolescent males down to believing aggressiveness is bad and unwanted. And they wonder why boys are so shy. Always put on them on a video game to play or a movie to watch or some crap like that. Then they never unlock their true masculinity and intuition and just end up being addicted to video games, Internet porn etc. and turn into anti-socials when it comes to reality.*
      The nonstop conflation of masculinity with physical aggression is telling (not just you but several other posters have done this), as is the phrase "feminist bullshit". Feminism, at its core, is the acceptance that women and men are equally valuable as human beings. It has nothing to do, necessarily, with any particular character attributes, nor does it define a set of same that are to be considered "masculine" and "feminine".

      Radical feminism can and does include these ideas and, yes, is often batshit insane, just like the Men's Rights movement, which is its equally radical opposite. Neither of these extremes is heavily represented in either our laws or our general culture; you would be hard-pressed, for example, to find a person walking down the street who would agree with the statement that "all sex is rape" (a somewhat common rad-fem meme) or that "men should be able to waive responsibility for paternity of their children" (a men's rights idea). Similarly, public policy may often be ignorant, short-sighted and misguided, but I hardly think it reasonable to suggest that some pervasive feminist conspiracy is hell-bent on "feminizing" boys.

      I don't think I need to be a brainwashed fem-bot castrato to believe that physical aggression is a negative tendency, either. I came to that conclusion all on my own the first time I got shoved off the front steps by a bigger kid at my preschool. I'm pretty sure I fell on my ass and thought some variation on the theme of "hey, that hurt and I don't like it when people hit me." As I passed through adolescence and became, myself, a large and physically imposing male adult, I learned that along with the ability to cause physical harm comes a responsibility not to do so out of aggression, nor to use my size and capacity for violence to threaten or coerce; that violence is only to be employed in the defense of self or others from aggression. No one had to indoctrinate me to bring me to this conclusion; I don't want to live in a world where aggression--either physical or implied through intimidation--is acceptable, and so I act accordingly as best I can.

      None of this is to imply that I don't have a capacity for aggression, or a desire to enact violence; that I don't feel rage and hatred; that I haven't, at one time or another, been forced to exert every fiber of my mental strength to prevent doing something to someone I would later regret. The memory of the few times I have caused someone physical harm, even unintentionally, and the sickening regret I invariably feel afterward, has always been enough to remind me to keep my head when serious violence started to seem like a good idea.

      I would argue that the cultivation of this kind of strength is superior to the kind of showy machismo that just perpetuates the antiquated feudal notions of "honor" and strength through war and conquest--whatever the modern equivalent, which mostly seems to be sports, punctuated by bar fights and invading countries full of brown people (at the upper end of the economic spectrum, of course, we also see such lovely pastimes as corporate capitalism and the endlessly inane machinations of the mostly-male political class). There was a time for that, and it was in the 13th century. We've got bigger problems to solve, and today's heroes are the people solving them, regardless of what equipment they were born with or whether they like to play with dolls or trucks.

      As for "unlocking their true masculinity", who the fuck are you to decide how a child "should" behave, how aggressive or stereotypically masculine a given teenager "ought" to be? Did you ever stop to consider that maybe we're finally arriving, as a culture, at a place where everyone feels more comfortable behaving in the way that feels most appropriate for them? That maybe we're realizing we don't need to fit everyone in a neatly-labeled box and shun them if they defy their externally-applied labels? That maybe more men are acting in ways you consider "feminine", not because someone has made them this way, but because the people that would have them deny these tendencies, just to satisfy their longing for a neat and orderly world or to assuage their fear of the Other, are thankfully fading into irrelevance? Something to think about.

      As for your allusion to the advent of modern infotainment, I fail to see how this is a gender issue. Television is an equal-opportunity stupidity machine. More and more girls and women play video games every year, as the industry begins to cater more to them instead of only targeting males age 13-30 with physically-impossible women clad in leather bikinis. Internet porn may well be a bigger problem for men than women, but this isn't due to some conspiracy; it's a simple consequence of men relying more heavily on audiovisual cues for arousal. Women, as a group, are just as addicted to their preferred form of pornography--the euphemistically-named "romance novel" genre, which perpetuates ideas about relationships and sex that are often just as ridiculous, exaggerated, fetishistic, violence-endorsing, and generally out of touch with reality as porn videos.

      *Very long reply cut very short: citation fucking needed.
      Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

      My Primal Journal

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
        *Very long reply cut very short: citation fucking needed.
        Bravo! All of it.
        Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
          The nonstop conflation of masculinity with physical aggression is telling (not just you but several other posters have done this), as is the phrase "feminist bullshit". Feminism, at its core, is the acceptance that women and men are equally valuable as human beings. It has nothing to do, necessarily, with any particular character attributes, nor does it define a set of same that are to be considered "masculine" and "feminine".

          Radical feminism can and does include these ideas and, yes, is often batshit insane, just like the Men's Rights movement, which is its equally radical opposite. Neither of these extremes is heavily represented in either our laws or our general culture; you would be hard-pressed, for example, to find a person walking down the street who would agree with the statement that "all sex is rape" (a somewhat common rad-fem meme) or that "men should be able to waive responsibility for paternity of their children" (a men's rights idea). Similarly, public policy may often be ignorant, short-sighted and misguided, but I hardly think it reasonable to suggest that some pervasive feminist conspiracy is hell-bent on "feminizing" boys.

          I don't think I need to be a brainwashed fem-bot castrato to believe that physical aggression is a negative tendency, either. I came to that conclusion all on my own the first time I got shoved off the front steps by a bigger kid at my preschool. I'm pretty sure I fell on my ass and thought some variation on the theme of "hey, that hurt and I don't like it when people hit me." As I passed through adolescence and became, myself, a large and physically imposing male adult, I learned that along with the ability to cause physical harm comes a responsibility not to do so out of aggression, nor to use my size and capacity for violence to threaten or coerce; that violence is only to be employed in the defense of self or others from aggression. No one had to indoctrinate me to bring me to this conclusion; I don't want to live in a world where aggression--either physical or implied through intimidation--is acceptable, and so I act accordingly as best I can.

          None of this is to imply that I don't have a capacity for aggression, or a desire to enact violence; that I don't feel rage and hatred; that I haven't, at one time or another, been forced to exert every fiber of my mental strength to prevent doing something to someone I would later regret. The memory of the few times I have caused someone physical harm, even unintentionally, and the sickening regret I invariably feel afterward, has always been enough to remind me to keep my head when serious violence started to seem like a good idea.

          I would argue that the cultivation of this kind of strength is superior to the kind of showy machismo that just perpetuates the antiquated feudal notions of "honor" and strength through war and conquest--whatever the modern equivalent, which mostly seems to be sports, punctuated by bar fights and invading countries full of brown people (at the upper end of the economic spectrum, of course, we also see such lovely pastimes as corporate capitalism and the endlessly inane machinations of the mostly-male political class). There was a time for that, and it was in the 13th century. We've got bigger problems to solve, and today's heroes are the people solving them, regardless of what equipment they were born with or whether they like to play with dolls or trucks.

          As for "unlocking their true masculinity", who the fuck are you to decide how a child "should" behave, how aggressive or stereotypically masculine a given teenager "ought" to be? Did you ever stop to consider that maybe we're finally arriving, as a culture, at a place where everyone feels more comfortable behaving in the way that feels most appropriate for them? That maybe we're realizing we don't need to fit everyone in a neatly-labeled box and shun them if they defy their externally-applied labels? That maybe more men are acting in ways you consider "feminine", not because someone has made them this way, but because the people that would have them deny these tendencies, just to satisfy their longing for a neat and orderly world or to assuage their fear of the Other, are thankfully fading into irrelevance? Something to think about.

          As for your allusion to the advent of modern infotainment, I fail to see how this is a gender issue. Television is an equal-opportunity stupidity machine. More and more girls and women play video games every year, as the industry begins to cater more to them instead of only targeting males age 13-30 with physically-impossible women clad in leather bikinis. Internet porn may well be a bigger problem for men than women, but this isn't due to some conspiracy; it's a simple consequence of men relying more heavily on audiovisual cues for arousal. Women, as a group, are just as addicted to their preferred form of pornography--the euphemistically-named "romance novel" genre, which perpetuates ideas about relationships and sex that are often just as ridiculous, exaggerated, fetishistic, violence-endorsing, and generally out of touch with reality as porn videos.

          *Very long reply cut very short: citation fucking needed.
          I love you. Just so you know.
          Durp.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
            swoon inducing post
            *swooning*
            beautiful
            yeah you are

            Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
            lol

            Comment


            • Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
              I love you. Just so you know.
              Everyone knows that the most masculine trait is excessive verbosity. You just can't help loving me when I use so. Many. Words.
              Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

              My Primal Journal

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                Everyone knows that the most masculine trait is excessive verbosity. You just can't help loving me when I use so. Many. Words.
                Ahhh, say it again. A little closer...
                Durp.

                Comment


                • OK, where were all the ladies swooning and talking dirty to me for being an incorrigible nerd when I was in high school, huh?

                  Oh yeah, there was that one girl. I married her.
                  Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                  My Primal Journal

                  Comment


                  • I have yet to hear a coherent explanation for why cultural marxism is a bad thing. It just means examining how relationships are affected by hierarchy and exploitation.

                    Of course people who benefit from those types of relationships are going to get upset when you point them out, just like capitalists do.
                    “The whole concept of a macronutrient, like that of a calorie, is determining our language game in such a way that the conversation is not making sense." - Dr. Kurt Harris

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Chaohinon View Post
                      I have yet to hear a coherent explanation for why cultural marxism is a bad thing. It just means examining how relationships are affected by hierarchy and exploitation.

                      Of course people who benefit from those types of relationships are going to get upset when you point them out, just like capitalists do.
                      Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                      Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                      Current Weight: 235 pounds
                      Goal Weight: 195 pounds

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
                        *swooning*
                        Right there with you.

                        “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
                        ~Friedrich Nietzsche
                        And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                          The nonstop conflation of masculinity [...] long reply cut very short: citation fucking needed.
                          25 years old? You are a wise man. I don't know who your parents are, but if you were mine (they're 24 and 26) I would be so proud.
                          Female, age 51, 5' 9"
                          SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

                          Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
                          2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                            OK, where were all the ladies swooning and talking dirty to me for being an incorrigible nerd when I was in high school, huh?

                            Oh yeah, there was that one girl. I married her.
                            And I hope she realizes what a lucky girl she is to have you. I agree with jojohaligo that such depth of wisdom in one so young is really something extraordinary.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chaohinon View Post
                              I have yet to hear a coherent explanation for why cultural marxism is a bad thing.
                              And a mosquito has yet to be convinced that the anesthetic in it's saliva is a bad thing.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Blackcatbone View Post
                                And . . . . you're wrong. See, the problem is that you're approaching it from a very biased perspective, which is actually what is keeping more women from succeeding in traditionally male dominated fields (STEM and leadership). Not just because of glass ceilings, but because most women don't want to be seen as too competitive, so hold themselves back.

                                http://www.aauw.org/learn/research/u...xecsummary.pdf
                                Better Bottom Line - Building Gender Balanced Business

                                As for heavier labor, well yes, men will always dominate those fields due to obvious physical advantages. But those aren't the careers running the world.
                                Ok, physical labor has been conceded. Thank you.

                                Why would women be as capable as men in scientific reasoning or leadership? These have always been male-dominated areas. Look back over all of recorded history. That's over 6,000 years for those counting at home. How many women have invented something extraordinary or made a scientific breakthrough? How many have commanded the respect of their peers?

                                The assumed state of things is not that all genders are equal. Since the beginning of us being human, I believe there were gender roles. This lead to differing evolution between the sexes.
                                Last edited by wiltondeportes; 11-13-2012, 01:19 AM.

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