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The Feminization of Males

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  • Back to topic, I don't think most women want a feminine man anymore than most men want a woman who looks like she'll snap in half easier than a toothpick. But I think some women don't understand that the first step to getting a male to "man up" is to stop trying to cut his nuts off every chance she gets.

    This has been a long thread, so excuse me if I don't quote right, but I think Rita said something about her man being in charge? Well, I tend to think if more women had that attitude, then more men would act like... men. Treat a man LIKE a man, and he'll act like one.
    Female, 40 yrs old, 5', 120 lbs (post-pregnancy)
    Went Primal January 2, 2012!

    Paleo Cooking for Cavekids cookbook

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    • Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
      I never got these. It sounds awkward to use 'dear' before every single classification, and is it really that hard to simply say "son", "daughter", "husband"?
      I'm pretty sure it's a north Korean thing- "dear leader"

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      • Originally posted by banananutmuffin View Post
        That's a completely different situation. Apples to oranges. Not every cheater is justified. But... some women are treating their husbands in a manner that is pretty much guaranteed to drive their man away. Period. Do a google search for "My wife won't have sex with me." The stories you read are horrifying. Women never putting out. Women controlling their husbands with sex. Decent men dying for some intimacy and affection from their wives, and not getting it. Believe me... those women ARE asking for their hubbies to have an affair.

        But people are human. And they do make mistakes. And in a loveless marriage, temptations are greater, I am sure.
        I don't think any cheater is justified. Let's remember, there are other options. How about this one (drum roll):
        break up with your partner first. Be an adult; take responsibility for your actions instead of blaming them on your interpretation of someone else's.

        The cheat scenarios I gave of a woman putting out and a woman withholding each have the same ingredient and outcome - apples to apples. Any perceived differences are in the motivation of the cheater who should be held responsible for their actions, just like anyone else. Being married to a frigid bitch is not an excuse. Staying married to a frigid bitch isn't either. Sure, one has a better explanation for why they cheated, but it still doesn't excuse or validate it. On this, we will continue to disagree - sadly, there are many who blame themselves for their partners infidelity regardless of the cheater's reasons/excuses/explanations because of thinking as you have. Everyone has responsibility in a relationship, and I'm not absolving one for the other, but they can certainly own their actions. I do not believe in blaming the victim.

        I'll agree with you about how hard it is to be starved for something you crave (although didn't make comment about working things out). If a person is locked into a situation where they get nothing from someone (their wife), and suddenly someone comes along who is giving them something (attention, respect, etc.), it's very, very difficult, and some say impossible, for them to ignore it. Wandering a desert while dying of thirst and stumbling upon cool water...

        If they want to be a masculine manly man about it (let's just go with 'responsible adult'), we can hope they know themselves well enough to recognize the slippery slope they're stepping onto and will get out of their current relationship before starting another one.

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        • Originally posted by banananutmuffin View Post
          That's a completely different situation. Apples to oranges. Not every cheater is justified. But... some women are treating their husbands in a manner that is pretty much guaranteed to drive their man away. Period. Do a google search for "My wife won't have sex with me." The stories you read are horrifying. Women never putting out. Women controlling their husbands with sex. Decent men dying for some intimacy and affection from their wives, and not getting it. Believe me... those women ARE asking for their hubbies to have an affair.
          Absolutely. In my opinion, any woman who tries to manipulate her husband by withholding sex, has no business complaining when he goes and gets it somewhere else. You've basically asked him to cheat, don't bitch when he does.

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          • Originally posted by banananutmuffin View Post
            This has been a long thread, so excuse me if I don't quote right, but I think Rita said something about her man being in charge? Well, I tend to think if more women had that attitude, then more men would act like... men. Treat a man LIKE a man, and he'll act like one.
            Uh, no. If that's how a particular relationship works, then fine. But a man doesn't need some kind of artificial role playing to be a man, he just is. A man is secure enough in his manhood to not be threatened by letting a woman make decisions. That said, I have no problem with the person who is better at something doing that thing. My boyfriend is a carpenter so he's obviously better at building and fixing things, traditionally male duties. I'm a better cook and am better at cleaning so I do a lot of the traditionally female things. But there's overlap. When the house was being built I was grouting tiles, helping install the hardwood floors, finishing cabinets and so on. Major decisions are discussed and both viewpoints are taken into account. Neither of is is in charge of the other. We work as a team.
            Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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            • Originally posted by Rosegin View Post
              I haven't said anything personal about "that guy" so how can you even make that statement. Did I mention a MARRIAGE COUNSELOR told me that? I think it's good advice.
              Marriage counselors aren't in the ethical habit of giving advice, but unfortunately, there are lousy therapists able to pass exams and get their credentialing. I'm not saying that was the case with this one, but it was poor professionalism and potentially damaging to suggest to a their client that you just can't trust anyone these days, least of all your spouse (pardon my paraphrasing).

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              • Originally posted by Man is Truth
                I think infidelity is largely the result of the fact that husbands and wives in the modern world are likely members of different tribes for a significant about of their time in a week, and each of those tribes has its own internal mating dynamics and pressures. Also neither tribe really deals with the wife's husband or husband's wife, so the marriage in each of their respective tribal circles is only a concept that people discuss, rather than a relationship that they would smell on your face like in a natural setting.
                Interesting. It would be fun to know what infidelity rates were in paleo social constructs when you could, in fact, smell a relationship in the natural setting.

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                • Originally posted by Dig62 View Post
                  Absolutely. In my opinion, any woman who tries to manipulate her husband by withholding sex, has no business complaining when he goes and gets it somewhere else. You've basically asked him to cheat, don't bitch when he does.
                  Wait a min...does the man have any business demanding sex?

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                  • Originally posted by Clabbergirl View Post
                    it was poor professionalism and potentially damaging to suggest to a their client that you just can't trust anyone these days, least of all your spouse (pardon my paraphrasing).
                    yup.

                    it's not good advice. so stop thinking it. in the long run it will cause more harm than good

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                    • Originally posted by Man is Truth
                      blackcatbone, do you think fixing things is a "man" quality? In primal societies, the men were probably often away on hunts or territorial patrols or other glory-seeking/mate-stock-increasing risky behaviors. The women were the ones in the little tent clusters doing low-risk work, staying close to their fires. I am sure they had the handicraft traditions and the men were better at things that related to their functions in the tribe.
                      Traditionally, yes, but I meant larger scale stuff that involves power tools. HGs didn't build permanent structures so things that needed to be fixed tended to be smaller. Women weren't doing framing and roofing, hanging sheetrock. That said, there tended to be a lot more crossover before romanticized gender ideals took hold. Especially amongst the poor, women worked in the fields, had to haul wood and fend for themselves up to a point. But certainly women fixed things involving textiles and pottery, possibly even making weapons, but when we started building bigger and heavier men tended to do a lot more of the fixing and building.
                      Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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                      • Originally posted by Clabbergirl View Post
                        Wait a min...does the man have any business demanding sex?
                        No, I'm not talking about pulling a Mel Gibson.

                        I'm speaking of the intentional withholding of sex specifically for the purpose of manipulation.... emotional, financial, material, etc.

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                        • Originally posted by Man is Truth
                          I think "man-roles" in "civilized" societies spring from the social engineering of the aristocracy that hungered to humiliate the strong men in the tribe, so they put them to demeaning labor. Homo stuff at bottom, really.
                          More likely the advent of agriculture which allowed people to amass surplus, thus the origin of inheritance rights. In order to keep your woman sequestered you had to provide for her and offspring. Did you read Mark's post from yesterday? Through male and female specialization we became dependent on each other.
                          Buy house, Demolish house, Build house.

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                          • I am very metrosexual but I can't stand when people assume that because I am fit and dress elegantly people assume I'm gay.

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                            • Originally posted by Dig62 View Post
                              No, I'm not talking about pulling a Mel Gibson.

                              I'm speaking of the intentional withholding of sex specifically for the purpose of manipulation.... emotional, financial, material, etc.
                              OK, gotcha. I've known women who do this and it's always a bad idea. Always. I wonder if, in relationships where the woman has more power as the provider/leader, this is an issue.

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                              • Originally posted by banananutmuffin View Post

                                I know someone who refers to people as their "Dear Daughter" and "Dear Husband." It's annoying as hell. Although... I call my husband "My Beefcake." I'm sure that annoys people, too.
                                Wow~ I do it ONE time (habit for another bulletin board) and get slapped four sides to Sunday! I'll remember to spell out every word from now on~ for all you challenged people.

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