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Flu Vaccine

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  • #91
    yep, we're all lazy dumbasses who just can't wait for herd immunity to kick in
    yeah you are

    Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.


    • #92
      I think most people on this thread need to take a big step back and realize that, last year, the vaccine only around an 11% effectiveness rate. Also, anecdotal evidence was given on this board by a nurse (I think) just weeks ago detailing how the vaccine was steeply discounted 2-3 years ago due to the KNOWN ineffectiveness, yet it was sold to the public anyway.

      Additionally, regarding vaccines in general, just of the top of my head, two well-respected researchers in our community, Paul Jaminet and Art Ayers, have said most (not all) reductions in disease can be attributed to better sanitation.

      Finally, the flu vaccine is a HUGE money maker for Big Pharma. No conflict there, right. ;-)

      There are many, many factors that contribute to diseases. Washing hands and staying out of public while sick will go a long way to keeping everyone healthy.
      Last edited by jkr; 12-24-2011, 11:42 PM.


      • #93
        Originally posted by Jenny View Post
        Paleobird, there's no point in arguing with people about this, particularly here. I've never seen anyone who's anti-vaccine change their mind based on microbiology or probability (or anything, actually.) Real-world examples like the recent resurgence in whooping cough killing babies in California don't matter either.

        Certain people seem more comfortable taking higher risks passively than taking active lower risks. For whatever reason, they are more comfortable with the clearly-demonstrated side effects of diseases than the variously rumored and lower-rate side effects of vaccines.

        Just wait till they finish the universal flu vaccine:
        Then there will be an all-new thing for people to automatically assume is horrible. Meanwhile, herd immunity from the people actually willing to take it will reach an all-time high and protect those same doubters -- and due to the lower infection rates, why, that means vaccines are even less necessary amirite!

        Right. Because "playing God" has worked out so well for us so far. How much longer before GMO's take over the planet? Only humans would have the arrogance to think they could do something like this.

        So let's say this is possible. According to the article we would save 3,000-49,000 lives a year? At 49,000 people saved that's only about 1.6 percent of the population(actually I'm pretty sure I did my math wrong so it's even lower, way lower like .016%). Based on that we should make a vaccine that we don't know the unintended consequences of and start medicating everyone with it?

        What happens if the flu mutates in such a way that we can't protect against it? It could end up in widespread plague or it might not. I certainly don't know, do you?
        Last edited by Hardwarehank; 12-25-2011, 09:56 AM. Reason: Bad math. I'm dumb.


        • #94
          Originally posted by SoccerGrok View Post


          • #95
            Flu infections are relatively rare. The majority of people who claim to have flu just have a bad cold, which is caused by a group of rhinoviruses that are not closely related to influenza virus. Persistent colds are associated with having a weak immune system.

            I've only had flu once in my lifetime. Having gone to bed feeling just fine, I woke up aching all over so badly that I had to crawl to the bathroom to vomit. I felt like I was going to die and it was terrifying. My doctor advised me to stay in bed. A fever and relatively mild cold symptoms followed and disappeared after about 2 days.

            The majority of under 50s have never had influenza virus.
            F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.


            • #96
              Another vote for no. I'm not anti-vaccine - I'm fully vaccinated against things like tetanus etc. and my daughter's had all her regular shots including chicken pox - but the flu vaccine, from anecdotes and medical literature, seems ineffective and entirely unnecessary. My mom has to have it as a condition of "employment" (in quotes because she volunteers) in a senior's care home, and she's had way, way more mild to moderate colds since she started getting a flu shot every year. Seems every time I call her she's got sniffles, whereas she used to get a cold once every few years. Granted, she IS older now than she was, but she's still healthy otherwise and there's no reason she'd be getting more colds now. Other friends have had similar experiences.

              I work with new moms and babies - privately, not through any agency - and nobody's ever requested that I have a flu shot. The only time I've ever recommended it was when swine flu was going around, a friend had a newborn and wasn't breastfeeding. Her doctor recommended vaccinating the rest of the family to create a "bubble of protection" around the baby and I thought that was probably a good idea.


              • #97
                I have gotten the flu vaccine every year since 1996. I am a RN, exposed to lots of sick people. I had the flu in 1995, I was so sick I just wanted someone to shoot me. After that, I hustled my butt to employee health for my flu shot as soon as they opened every fall. I haven't had the flu since. Not necessarily because of the flu shots, but I figure they haven't done any harm.

                I think of getting a flu shot is like eating some dirt. You expose yourself to various things and keep your immune system tuned up. Flu shots do not contain a live virus - just a partial piece of the inflluenza virus. The particles cannot multiply and infect you. If you feel bad afterward, it is your immune system reacting to the dead, partial virus particles causing some symptoms. But really and truly you do not have an influenza infection.

                A couple of years ago when we had the swine flu outbreak, at the hospital where I work I met several young, previously totally healthy adults in their 20's who had been on a ventilator in the critical care unit for a couple weeks. Sometimes a novel type of influenza virus comes along that is much more virulent than the more common ones. This is what happend with the recent swine flu and the "Spanish Flu" outbreak in 1917. Most of the people who died from that were young adults - people who had not lived as long and been exposed to as many influenza viruses.

                I figure if I get "exposed" every year to various permutations of flu virus via my flu shots, when the really nasty one comes along my immune system might have a little bit of a head start in fighting it off.

                Fot truth's sake, I will also report that I have seen people hospitalized for the flu who got that years flu shot. So, they are no guarantee. There are always mutations of the virus that are different from what was in the flu shot.


                • #98


                  • #99
                    Originally posted by Barb View Post
                    I figure if I get "exposed" every year to various permutations of flu virus via my flu shots, when the really nasty one comes along my immune system might have a little bit of a head start in fighting it off.
                    You are actually more likely to get H1N1 if you take seasonal flu shots.

                    Seasonal flu vaccines increase risk of pandemic H1N1 flu, stunned scientists discover


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                          • Personally, I never get a flu shot, and neither does any member of my family. There are a number of reasons behind my decision. --Mark Sisson


                            • My 6 year old gets the flus shot every year. Whatever the effectiveness 1.5%, 11%, 50% I'll take it. Any percentage is better than the alternative. If she gets the flu she will end up in intensive care and she may not survive. I would love to think that her recent switch to primal living will help her lungs but I won't take any chances.

                              For me and my other daughter, we didn't get the shot. I don't rely on anyone else to protect my child. Sure I inwardly rant and seethe every time another parent sends their child to school with an obvious cold but I can't put her in a bubble. I'm lucky that she has a good immune system and doesn't get sick easily. Unfortunately no about of vitamin D is going to help her once she does.
                              Became Primal August 2011

                              SW - 84kg / 185lb
                              CW - 60kg / 132lb
                              GW - 60kg / 132lb