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  • Originally posted by sroelofs View Post
    Some people have said some heartless and selfish things in this thread. I don't for a second believe they mean it. I think it's just internet boasting. Or maybe I'm just optimistic that the things people have said don't reflect their reality.
    This rant is going to be a bit off-topic for that I apologize.

    I don't feel I'm heartless or selfish, I'd say I'm a realist.

    And if it comes up in real life conversations I have no qualms repeating the same sentiments I've shared here. There's way too many people nowadays and trying to save them all(as bleeding hearts seem to want to do) is a ridiculous task considering we all die. So if you can't save them all the next best thing is to try and make everyone happy and comfortable which is as impossible as trying to save everyone.

    The human race is eating this world up at an alarming rate(according to the world population clock we're adding around 2 million new people a day) towards two inevitable outcomes in my opinion. We either end up in some type of dystopian future where everyone is starving(think Soylent Green) and dies out or if we linger on long enough we all die because the sun has finally blown up(I don't think we'll make it this long). The other outcome is we figure out how to colonize and fuck up the rest of the universe. If you have kids or plan on having them(I don't) do you want this kind of future for their kids and their kids and so on? I'm sorry if this is too real for some of you to accept.

    Now this doesn't mean I don't care about my family and friends. And I suppose you could say "well this is all easy for you to say since you're not starving" but if I were on the other side of the coin and starving I'd have better things to worry about than what some asshole on some message board thinks.

    Richard Nikoley of Free the Animal articulates my feelings without all of the nihilism in this article - Another Simple Question: The Paleo Diet is Not The Way to a Healthy Future <i>For Whom?</i> | Free The Animal
    Last edited by Hardwarehank; 12-28-2011, 01:42 PM. Reason: added the part about the article

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    • Originally posted by kenn View Post
      :d:d
      They aren't, however, they are friendly and funny
      i'm not sure if that's a smiley or code, but i love you too

      also, those are theb est kinds of nurses
      beautiful
      yeah you are

      Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
      lol

      Comment


      • You're talking about population as a whole, which makes it easier to justify. But, let's say you get the flu, don't get sick, but pass it onto your 4 year old niece who subsequently dies (substitute a loved one here if you don't have a neice). You'd be gutted and all the talk about survival of the fittest and overpopulation goes out the window.

        I'm not saying you should or shouldn't get the vaccine, but I am saying that you would care if you directly contributed to a death of someone else when it was avoidable.

        Originally posted by Hardwarehank View Post
        This rant is going to be a bit off-topic for that I apologize.

        I don't feel I'm heartless or selfish, I'd say I'm a realist.

        And if it comes up in real life conversations I have no qualms repeating the same sentiments I've shared here. There's way too many people nowadays and trying to save them all(as bleeding hearts seem to want to do) is a ridiculous task considering we all die. So if you can't save them all the next best thing is to try and make everyone happy and comfortable which is as impossible as trying to save everyone.

        The human race is eating this world up at an alarming rate(according to the world population clock we're adding around 2 million new people a day) towards two inevitable outcomes in my opinion. We either end up in some type of dystopian future where everyone is starving(think Soylent Green) and dies out or if we linger on long enough we all die because the sun has finally blown up(I don't think we'll make it this long). The other outcome is we figure out how to colonize and fuck up the rest of the universe. If you have kids or plan on having them(I don't) do you want this kind of future for their kids and their kids and so on? I'm sorry if this is too real for some of you to accept.

        Now this doesn't mean I don't care about my family and friends. And I suppose you could say "well this is all easy for you to say since you're not starving" but if I were on the other side of the coin and starving I'd have better things to worry about than what some asshole on some message board thinks.

        Richard Nikoley of Free the Animal articulates my feelings without all of the nihilism in this article - Another Simple Question: The Paleo Diet is Not The Way to a Healthy Future <i>For Whom?</i> | Free The Animal

        Comment


        • Originally posted by sroelofs View Post
          You're talking about population as a whole, which makes it easier to justify. But, let's say you get the flu, don't get sick, but pass it onto your 4 year old niece who subsequently dies (substitute a loved one here if you don't have a neice). You'd be gutted and all the talk about survival of the fittest and overpopulation goes out the window.

          I'm not saying you should or shouldn't get the vaccine, but I am saying that you would care if you directly contributed to a death of someone else when it was avoidable.
          Right, and what if you gave her the shot and she got the flu and died?

          Comment


          • *tosses in spikes, maces and nailed bats*
            beautiful
            yeah you are

            Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
            lol

            Comment


            • So if these flu manufacturers go to China or whatever to find next year's strains for Americans, what do the Chinese do?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by sroelofs View Post
                You're talking about population as a whole, which makes it easier to justify. But, let's say you get the flu, don't get sick, but pass it onto your 4 year old niece who subsequently dies (substitute a loved one here if you don't have a neice). You'd be gutted and all the talk about survival of the fittest and overpopulation goes out the window.

                I'm not saying you should or shouldn't get the vaccine, but I am saying that you would care if you directly contributed to a death of someone else when it was avoidable.
                I completely agree. If I directly contributed to the death of a family member, avoidable or otherwise, I would care. I'd be a pretty horrible human being if I didn't. What does that have to do with flu vaccines?

                Comment


                • this is one of the inevitable 'think of the children!!' debate tactics

                  next should be 'you're a nazi'
                  beautiful
                  yeah you are

                  Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                  lol

                  Comment


                  • Wow what a thread, the other Vaccine thread only had 7 pages....

                    Yes I would have to say I don't get the vaccine either. But what I do is take high amounts of Vitamin D3 & C daily. I do other things like keep my self healthy by eating right (Paleo), keep my self stress free & take my vitamins. The best way to not to spread a flu or any sickness is not to be around people at the first sign on a cold or flu. Then I would increase my intake of D3 & C.

                    I'm not heartless either and have done my own research on the subject. I feel I have the intelligence to make my own decisions. I don't need the government to do so for me. I think I'm being "socially" responsible by being proactive. I'm probably more "protected" by not spreading the flu or getting it then someone that is "relying" on a vaccine. But then eats crappy and doesn't take care of him/her self like I do.

                    Even one on here I'm sure has strong feeling for both sides. So not pointing to anyone person. But this is my feeling on it. Oh and by the way my mother had a Kidney Transplant a few years ago. So I'm around someone that can probably easily get the flu. I'm sure she has to get the flu shot. I would never go around her if I was sick. But I can't remember the last time I got sick since taking high amounts of D3 & C.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by bloodorchid View Post
                      i'm not sure if that's a smiley or code, but i love you too

                      also, those are theb est kinds of nurses
                      I had no complaints
                      Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                      Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                      Current Weight: 235 pounds
                      Goal Weight: 195 pounds

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by sroelofs View Post
                        You're talking about population as a whole, which makes it easier to justify. But, let's say you get the flu, don't get sick, but pass it onto your 4 year old niece who subsequently dies (substitute a loved one here if you don't have a neice). You'd be gutted and all the talk about survival of the fittest and overpopulation goes out the window.

                        I'm not saying you should or shouldn't get the vaccine, but I am saying that you would care if you directly contributed to a death of someone else when it was avoidable.
                        How on earth could you get the flu and not get sick? If that were the case, then just being exposed would make you a carrier, flu shot or not. And unless your niece never left the house and you were the only person to be near her, how could you possible think you were the one to infect her?
                        Emotion and logic just don't belong in the same discussion~

                        Comment


                        • I was just making the point because some people were saying they wouldn't care. Not passing judgement on getting the shot or not.
                          Originally posted by Hardwarehank View Post
                          I completely agree. If I directly contributed to the death of a family member, avoidable or otherwise, I would care. I'd be a pretty horrible human being if I didn't. What does that have to do with flu vaccines?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by sroelofs View Post
                            I was just making the point because some people were saying they wouldn't care. Not passing judgement on getting the shot or not.
                            Fair enough.

                            Comment


                            • JKR,

                              Do you have a source for that effectiveness rate? Would be interested to see, thanks....

                              Originally posted by jkr View Post
                              I think most people on this thread need to take a big step back and realize that, last year, the vaccine only around an 11% effectiveness rate. Also, anecdotal evidence was given on this board by a nurse (I think) just weeks ago detailing how the vaccine was steeply discounted 2-3 years ago due to the KNOWN ineffectiveness, yet it was sold to the public anyway.

                              Additionally, regarding vaccines in general, just of the top of my head, two well-respected researchers in our community, Paul Jaminet and Art Ayers, have said most (not all) reductions in disease can be attributed to better sanitation.

                              Finally, the flu vaccine is a HUGE money maker for Big Pharma. No conflict there, right. ;-)

                              There are many, many factors that contribute to diseases. Washing hands and staying out of public while sick will go a long way to keeping everyone healthy.

                              Comment


                              • Seems to me the human immune system and the interaction of humans in a "herd" is extremely complex. Yes of course, if the flu vaccine, we knew was completely harmless (I know that is what conventional wisdom tell us) we should probably all make an effort to take it. The problem is even the most wise scientists are ignorant of all the complexities here, especially in the long term effects of things we do to our bodies.

                                However the problem is the flu vaccine is also always changing and always subject to manufacturing problems and unknown interactions with different peoples' unique systems. Further the success rate for flu vaccines also does not seem to be very well understood. If you get sick post flu shot, even if you are not sick with the flu, it still might have caused your immune system to react in a way that is not net-good.

                                On top of that we have a large political game being played within pharma with billions and trillions of dollars hanging in the balance. That definitely skews what one thinks looks like pure research but instead is heavily biased. The AMA, FDA and CDC have too much power. They have cartelized medical science, and any time you have that kind of power structure, it tends to distort the truth so it can sustain itself. I think the parallels to the banking system are many. All of this only reinforces that each person should try and make their best informed decision possible. The medical establishment would have people simply believe in the food pyramid, the surgeon general or whatever the drug salesman says. Good food and prevention? Not enough money in that for giant corporations so it is ignored by the establishment. It would be nice if there was a more level playing field in medical science and research. I won't even go into the horrible things done in the name of science in the past related to vaccinations.

                                It is no wonder people are confused in the giant cluster of medical jargon, complex science, conflicting studies, misleading advertising and outright lies.

                                Where does that leave us? Likely some vaccines are beneficial for some people. But caveat emptor.
                                Last edited by abexman; 12-31-2011, 02:17 PM.

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