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Soy is Cruel and Unusual Punishment

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  • Soy is Cruel and Unusual Punishment

    Prisoner Sues Over Soy-Based Meals.

    Nevermind that the prisoner is a pedophile - that would be a different thread. But this is a slippery slope indeed - what if schools started adopting these Frankenfoods to feed kids "nutritious" meals? Or supplemented gruel like in the Matrix, "everything a body needs."

    That would cut costs. Actually, I don't know that school meals don't include these soy-supplemented foods already. Hmmm....
    Positively Radical Pigeonholes are for Pigeons!

  • #2
    "Cruel and unusual" seems a bit hyperbolic, but I definitely think prisoners should at least have access to healthy options. If cost is such an issue, maybe we should start reevaluating why our prisons are so overcrowded.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by petriquor View Post
      "Cruel and unusual" seems a bit hyperbolic, but I definitely think prisoners should at least have access to healthy options. If cost is such an issue, maybe we should start reevaluating why our prisons are so overcrowded.
      You're a better person than I. IMO pedophiles don't deserve access to any options and should be left in holes to rot or mummify, depending on local climate.

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      • #4
        these guys think they're in hotels. and maybe they are when compared to jails in other countries, like, say, turkey.

        no love for the evil people.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by LJH View Post
          You're a better person than I. IMO pedophiles don't deserve access to any options and should be left in holes to rot or mummify, depending on local climate.
          True, but I lack faith in the ability of the legal system to actually tell a pedophile from a pediatrician.
          Oh and veganism is a cruel and unusual punishment.
          In all of the universe there is only one person with your exact charateristics. Just like there is only one person with everybody else's characteristics. Effectively, your uniqueness makes you pretty average.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by HillsideGina View Post
            [what if schools started adopting these Frankenfoods to feed kids
            That would cut costs. Actually, I don't know that school meals don't include these soy-supplemented foods already. Hmmm....
            What mean you by this "what if"?

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            • #7
              Aside from wanting paedophiles, and the like, to burn in hell NOW, I have to wonder if making their diets more primal might alter some brain chemistry in them to "heal" them of these vices. You know, like how eliminating wheat can (almost) eliminate schizophrenia symptoms. What if these "urges" are caused by a CW diet?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Kimelah View Post
                What if these "urges" are caused by a CW diet?
                There would be a lot more paedophiles?

                The issue I have is that whether it is a state of mind or not it requires an act...you have to actually violate a child. That goes beyond diet or brain chemistry into conscious action. There is no excuse for that.

                As to OP...I think cruel and unusual punishment has gone beyond what the Founders envisioned. If you told GW, TJ etc that one day a prisoner could sue because they do not like prison food they probably would have laughed at you.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by canio6 View Post
                  If you told GW, TJ etc that one day a prisoner could sue because they do not like prison food they probably would have laughed at you.
                  To be fair, they would also not recognize a lot of what we eat as "food". Just saying.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by petriquor View Post
                    To be fair, they would also not recognize a lot of what we eat as "food". Just saying.
                    Good point.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by LJH View Post
                      You're a better person than I. IMO pedophiles don't deserve access to any options and should be left in holes to rot or mummify, depending on local climate.
                      Originally posted by Kimelah View Post
                      Aside from wanting paedophiles, and the like, to burn in hell NOW...
                      Can we not try to be better people than the people we put in jail? Is there something wrong with treating people humanely no matter what the circumstances? I really don't understand how it's OK to say something this vicious in civilized discourse.

                      Originally posted by Alex Good View Post
                      True, but I lack faith in the ability of the legal system to actually tell a pedophile from a pediatrician.
                      Oh and veganism is a cruel and unusual punishment.
                      +1

                      Originally posted by canio6 View Post
                      Originally posted by Kimelah View Post
                      What if these "urges" are caused by a CW diet?
                      There would be a lot more paedophiles?
                      Just like how arthritis, IBS, celiac, ulcerative colitis, gout, diabetes, cancer, and dementia are all present in 100% of the CW-eating population, right?

                      The formula is (percentage of genetically predisposed individuals) x (number of people eating CW) = (number affected by _____ disease). Not everyone is predisposed to get every condition.

                      Although pedophilia seems to me like it has a lot to do with abuse of the offender in childhood and other environmental circumstances, too. Definitely not just diet.

                      Originally posted by canio6 View Post
                      The issue I have is that whether it is a state of mind or not it requires an act...you have to actually violate a child. That goes beyond diet or brain chemistry into conscious action. There is no excuse for that.
                      I don't think anyone is talking about excusing the action. Kimelah was suggesting that recidivism might be somewhat preventable through dietary rehabilitation, which is a totally reasonable approach.

                      Originally posted by canio6 View Post
                      As to OP...I think cruel and unusual punishment has gone beyond what the Founders envisioned. If you told GW, TJ etc that one day a prisoner could sue because they do not like prison food they probably would have laughed at you.
                      As our understanding of what helps and harms people evolves, so should our definition of cruel and unusual. As our technology evolves, so should the laws and social norms that keep its use productive rather than destructive. As our society changes, so should the government to best serve it. Jefferson himself said something to the effect that revolutions needed to happen every couple of generations or the government would stagnate (something like "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots" IIRC). The Founders never expected the country to still be using the same Constitution, with only some addenda, two and a half centuries after they wrote it. They would likely be shocked at how complacent we are about it, too.
                      Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                      My Primal Journal

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                      • #12
                        The restriction of freedom is supposed to accomplish a few things:
                        1. Punishment.
                        2. Deterrence.
                        3. Increased safety of society, by removing the dangerous person.

                        What is there to be accomplished by feeding them crap while preventing them from growing their own food?

                        I'm not suggesting that prison should be comfortable, but people who eat good food and do productive work are far easier to manage, in addition to being less of a drain on society and less likely to reoffend after release.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                          Can we not try to be better people than the people we put in jail? Is there something wrong with treating people humanely no matter what the circumstances? I really don't understand how it's OK to say something this vicious in civilized discourse.
                          + 1 for humane treatment and civilized discourse.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                            Just like how arthritis, IBS, celiac, ulcerative colitis, gout, diabetes, cancer, and dementia are all present in 100% of the CW-eating population, right?

                            The formula is (percentage of genetically predisposed individuals) x (number of people eating CW) = (number affected by _____ disease). Not everyone is predisposed to get every condition.

                            Although pedophilia seems to me like it has a lot to do with abuse of the offender in childhood and other environmental circumstances, too. Definitely not just diet.

                            None of the ailments you listed require action. You do not eat a bunch of CW stuff and then decide to get cancer, suffer from gout etc. Pedophilia still requires an act. Until the act takes place it is merely thoughts, and I am in no way suggesting that thoughts should be policed. It is the action. Whether diet has an effect on thought or not is not the point. The point is that someone chose to act on those thoughts/impulses/drives. We are still human beings with control over our actions.

                            Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                            I don't think anyone is talking about excusing the action. Kimelah was suggesting that recidivism might be somewhat preventable through dietary rehabilitation, which is a totally reasonable approach.
                            Lets assume you are correct, how do ensure that said recidivism continues once the person is released? Are you going to make a certain way of eating a condition of their parole? How would it be checked? Is the pedophile in question requesting a non-soy diet because he recognizes that soy causes his pedophilia? I don't think so.

                            Don't get me wrong, in a perfect world I would eliminate soy from their diets. One just needs to find a way to pay for it. Examining our criminal code especially as it applies to non-violent drug offenders would be an excellent start.


                            Originally posted by Uncephalized View Post
                            As our understanding of what helps and harms people evolves, so should our definition of cruel and unusual. As our technology evolves, so should the laws and social norms that keep its use productive rather than destructive. As our society changes, so should the government to best serve it. Jefferson himself said something to the effect that revolutions needed to happen every couple of generations or the government would stagnate (something like "the tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots" IIRC). The Founders never expected the country to still be using the same Constitution, with only some addenda, two and a half centuries after they wrote it. They would likely be shocked at how complacent we are about it, too.
                            Agreed. However, in this case as the diet meets all government approved nutritional requirements and is very similar to the one fed to millions of school children daily I do not see him winning. I am not a soy fan, but by CW/SAD standards it is nutritious. I do not see feeding a nutritious diet being ruled cruel and unusual. Then again, I have been wrong before.

                            As for stagnation and changing governments, you are correct. We have become far too complacent. Honestly I am not sure what can even be done at this point.

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