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Paleo-Diet: Not the Way to a Healthy Future?? NPR blog

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Northern Light View Post
    Rather Darwinian thinking, iniQuity.

    I think that the problem is one of distribution, not production. That is, policy and politics are the problem, not biology.
    Consider this though. We are not the only species on this planet. We don't necessarily deserve to live in every single nook and cranny on Earth. I think the biology is more complicated that you make it out to be. What will our continued expansion due to wild life, and what will that do in affecting the entire ecosystem? How will that changed ecosystem then affect whatever agricultural methods we have in place? How will our agricultural methods affect the ecosystem? These are all questions that somewhat go back and forth, but they show clearly that the Earth is not designed for anything at all. We adapted to it/We adapted it to us a long time ago, but modern science still is unable to determine the true answers here. Either that, or the true answer isn't pretty so there's nothing to really talk about.

    I'm not trying to be Chicken Little. All I'm doing is trying a little scientific logic.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
      I'm all for the population decreasing. I think the argument certainly holds water when you consider the population boom due to agriculture. All these people are about to make the planet go out of orbit if they keep fattening up and reproducing like its their right or something. No more than two kids per household if that, and ration the food, mass suicides are encouraged as well.
      Needs to start in Africa & Asia first
      Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
      Starting Weight: 294 pounds
      Current Weight: 235 pounds
      Goal Weight: 195 pounds

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      • #18
        Originally posted by TigerLily View Post
        Am I the only one who truly does not care one iota if there is enough grass-fed beef to go around to feed everyone in China? Is that really an excuse for Westerners not going Paleo in the first place? I'm a flaming liberal, but this sort of thing makes me roll my eyes. I care about my own health and keeping my grandma's leg from having to be amputated as a result of her diabetes. I've got to save myself and the people I actually know and care about before I can save China.
        Ok, so we all think primal eating is great right? What if more and more of the population started eating this way. Forget about China. If there is more and more demand for grassfed beef, etc, that will raise the prices significantly. The only way to make grassfed beef available for the average person without farming it himself is to be able to produce enough for most people.

        It's long distance thinking, but shit...our political system is pretty messed up right now. We need to be thinking about our future.

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        • #19
          That statement just seemed so out of place for an anthropologist. She also said that genes didn't design our language. Really? This is an extreme example but ever try having a conversation with a chimpanzee? They can't make the same sounds we do and even if they could their brains aren't set up the same way that ours are. Think that might have some something to do with, I don't know, say genes? Perish the thought.
          http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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          • #20
            Wilt, I've been thinking about sustainability issues since the 70s, so of course my concern is for the entire ecosphere. When I talk about the planet being habitable by humans, that assumes that the we haven't messed it up too much for other species.

            Currently, much of our corn production is going into our cars' tanks, not anybody's belly. We are cutting down forests to make advertising circulars and junk mail. We are strip-mining oil sands and coal so people can take cheaper long-distance vacations and make more useless business trips. We are misusing the world's resources in ways that are far from sustainable on so many levels it makes your head spin. And, yes, I insist that these problems are essentially ones of policy and politics .

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            • #21
              There aren't any diets that are sustainable at the present time. Veganism certainly isn't, what with how large scale mon-crop agriculture destroys entire ecosystems.

              And neither is paleo.

              It's simply a matter of too many people on this earth.

              We're a large-bodied creature, what other animal of our size boasts a population of 7 billion? All others are a million or less.

              Though I'm not sure that many of us would be willing for drastic measures to be put in place to decrease our population back down to an ideal number.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by yodiewan View Post
                I agree with iniQuity. There are too many people, period. I feel like Agent Smith from "The Matrix", but seriously, enough is enough. This world can only support so many people.
                How many people are enough in your enlightened opinion?

                Originally posted by yodiewan View Post
                And no, I don't plan on ever having any kids.
                I feel bad for you.

                Anti-human nonsense all of it.
                Read. The. Book.

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                • #23
                  Isaac Asimov populated solaria with 10,000 people and 1 million robots


                  sounds about right.

                  We are facing a global problem and depeding on the math one of two things will happen, society will crumble under its own weight and mass murders will take care of the population, or nature will reach a breaking point and a famine the likes of which "god himself has never seen" will wipe out 9/10 of everyone now living.

                  say what you will, it has happned before and it will happen again.

                  Humans are the smartest idiots around
                  Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                  Predator not Prey
                  Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                  CW 315 | SW 506
                  Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                  Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by TigerLily View Post
                    Am I the only one who truly does not care one iota if there is enough grass-fed beef to go around to feed everyone in China? Is that really an excuse for Westerners not going Paleo in the first place? I'm a flaming liberal, but this sort of thing makes me roll my eyes. I care about my own health and keeping my grandma's leg from having to be amputated as a result of her diabetes. I've got to save myself and the people I actually know and care about before I can save China.
                    i agree, i couldnt care less about the chinese. they have been around much longer then pretty much anyone else, i think they can take care of themselves
                    Primal Chaos
                    37yo 6'5"
                    6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
                    current 338lbs 49" waist
                    goal 240lbs 35" waist

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Satch12879 View Post
                      How many people are enough in your enlightened opinion?

                      I feel bad for you.

                      Anti-human nonsense all of it.
                      Please don't feel bad for me. I'm happy as I am. I don't need a child to make me feel good about myself.

                      And honestly, I don't know how many people are "enough". I haven't looked deeply enough at the issue. Certainly not more than the Earth can sustainably support in optimal fashion. Which is certainly way lower than the current population.

                      I realize that this is a very complex issue and I don't have all the answers. But it's fun to debate!

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                      • #26
                        oh and the people that dont think paleo is sustainable, what exactly do you think is going to happen when the current society fails? when there are no more factories churning out processed foods for the masses? farms and agriculture surely wont be able to feed 7 billion people, youll see a return to the hunter gatherer type of system where only the strong survive. the question is when all this will happen. my guess is within the next 100 years judging by the way things are going currently
                        Primal Chaos
                        37yo 6'5"
                        6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
                        current 338lbs 49" waist
                        goal 240lbs 35" waist

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Satch12879 View Post
                          How many people are enough in your enlightened opinion?
                          I will speak for myself, not yodiewan, but I think somewhere around a 500 million to a billion people would be plenty, and I am sure that many could be sustainably fed off naturally-raised animal and plant products. Having one-seventh the current population would still ensure that there were plenty of people around to continue technological and social progress without having to destroy every ecosystem on the planet to enjoy a high standard of living.

                          Originally posted by Satch12879 View Post
                          I feel bad for you.

                          Anti-human nonsense all of it.
                          Bullshit. Wanting humans to go on reproducing and living like we have been, as though that has no repercussions, is the real anti-human (and anti-planet) nonsense. The world 100 years from now will barely be fit to live in, FOR HUMANS, if we go on the way we have been for the past 150. It's already marginal in most places. We used to have lots of space; abundant wilderness, teeming with robust populations of game and fish; clean water; clean air; and dark, star-filled night skies. Now the world is full of people almost everywhere you go, and what space we aren't using directly for habitation we are depleting of water, biomass, and biodiversity, and replacing those essential components of a healthy planet with industrial byproducts, dust bowls, and terawatts of never-ending light that keeps most of us from ever even seeing the stars.

                          I am not anti-human. I want humans to go on living free, happy lives on this beautiful planet forever (or at least until the sun expands and boils the oceans in a billion years or so). That will probably not happen if we don't get our shit mostly right this century, and reduce our population within the millennium. It is not anti-human to understand that there is a carrying capacity for people the same as every other species, and we've overshot it. Big time.

                          And for the record, I advocate a slow reduction over several centuries, accomplished my having fewer children. I am not in favor of any measure that involves killing any already-living people, or sterilizing anybody, or anything that otherwise harms people. I don't know how to best accomplish that, but it needs to happen. But just doing the math, if we could accomplish a worldwide replacement rate of 1.6 children per couple reaching reproductive age, we would be below 1 billion people in about 500 years. That's not impossible.
                          Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

                          My Primal Journal

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Northern Light View Post
                            Wilt, I've been thinking about sustainability issues since the 70s, so of course my concern is for the entire ecosphere. When I talk about the planet being habitable by humans, that assumes that the we haven't messed it up too much for other species.

                            Currently, much of our corn production is going into our cars' tanks, not anybody's belly. We are cutting down forests to make advertising circulars and junk mail. We are strip-mining oil sands and coal so people can take cheaper long-distance vacations and make more useless business trips. We are misusing the world's resources in ways that are far from sustainable on so many levels it makes your head spin. And, yes, I insist that these problems are essentially ones of policy and politics .
                            We elect people who tell us what we want to hear and we call those who actually sound the alarm "extremist." The problem is policy and politics which, in my mind, means the problem is voters.

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                            • #29
                              @Uncephalized: *high-five*

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                              • #30
                                Fewer people might relieve some of the daily traffic bog I encounter.

                                That would be sorta nice.

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