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Is smoking cigarettes THAT bad?

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  • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
    Ranting on about the nanny state infringing upon my god given right to pollute my lungs and those of others around me, now that is an emotional argument.

    Let's see some real science, not Libertarian Op-ed pieces.
    Perhaps you should go and complain about that same nanny state putting up industrial chem plants, and using coal, or stand in the street protesting everyone using diesel gas cars, or tear down a BBQ, because all of these things are proven worse. Maybe go burn down a mono-crop while you're at it too.

    The Libertarians are the only non-hypocritical bunch.

    Here, you can go sift through everything here if you're genuinely interested:

    self-medication tobacco - Google Scholar

    Then piece together apparent paradoxes between epidemiological and experimental facts.
    Make America Great Again

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    • I really don't want to get into a political debate. That way lies Hitler ponies.

      All I said was Op-ed pieces by smokers who feel oppressed are not scientific evidence of anything.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Derpamix View Post
        I have a vehement opposition towards conventional wisdom, that borders on seething hatred, and will do everything exactly the opposite as what they claim is true.
        Then you should be eating Primal.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
          I really don't want to get into a political debate. That way lies Hitler ponies.

          All I said was Op-ed pieces by smokers who feel oppressed are not scientific evidence of anything.
          Well, there is plenty to look through:

          self-medication tobacco - Google Scholar

          Do you think smoking should be banned?

          Then you should be eating Primal.
          I do, mostly. Only difference is I drink some coke, and eat sugar, both of which CW claims is bad for you based on more lies akin to the same junk science used to vilify dietary cholesterol and salt.
          Make America Great Again

          Comment


          • No, I don't think it should be banned. People do have the right to commit slow suicide if they want. But your "right" to smoke stops where my right to breathe starts.

            And that google scholar list is just a long list of papers saying that nicotine can have a calming effect in people with some mental disorders. Of course it can. It's a depressant. So?
            Last edited by Paleobird; 08-14-2013, 02:55 PM.

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            • Sounds like "Your rights end where my feelings begin". If you feel that way, you should do as said a few posts up.

              You need to look harder. Here are examples: superoxide dismutase was being touted as an elixir of eternal life a few years ago(crazy, I know), but smoking doubles superoxide dismutase: Selective increase of antioxidant enzyme a... [Am Rev Respir Dis. 1990] - PubMed - NCBI

              There are others, too.
              Make America Great Again

              Comment


              • Abstract
                Oxidants from cigarette smoke or those produced by phagocytes are implicated in the pathogenesis of emphysema. We reasoned that augmentation of antioxidant enzymes in cigarette smokers may be important in restricting direct and indirect oxidant damage to alveolar structures. ......This augmented activity may serve as a mechanism to limit oxidant-mediated damage to alveolar structures.

                All this is saying is that antioxidants kick in to try to repair the oxidative damage done by the smoking. How does that make it harmless? The fact that the body needs to fight back like this shows that it is harmful.

                Calling someone's argument "emotional" is a really lame method of trying to discredit it. Yes, I am rather emotionally attached to breathing. And yes, I get emotional (pissed off) when someone who choses to pollute their own lungs thinks it's OK to pollute mine as well. It's not. Yes, I'm "emotionally" invested in not dying from cancer.

                You don't care if you die young. I do.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gorbag View Post
                  If I ever should try smoking within my life time, I probably would start with a big fat Havana cigar...
                  Don't.

                  Start with something likely to put you off smoking!

                  A mate came back from Cuba loaded down with Cohibas...well a pack of Hamlet just isn't going to cut it after an introduction to cigars like that

                  I hadn't had a cigarette in YEARS but enjoyed smoking a Cuban as intended (No inhaling)



                  Expensive wonderful bastard things.

                  Comment


                  • Interesting topic. I'm an oncologist and I specialize in treating lung cancer. If you would spend a week with me and see the patients that I treat, any doubt that cigarettes are bad for you I think would quickly disappear. Yes, my experience is anecdotal. But 15 years of treating smokers dying of lung cancer has seemed like a trend to me.

                    Now having said that, I would staunchly defend the rights of anyone who chooses to smoke and don't think it should be banned. You could cynically say that it would be bad for my business if smoking went away but I do think that adults should have the right to make bad decisions for themselves (like eating junk food, being really obese, destroying their livers with alcohol, etc). But suggesting that cigarettes have no harmful effects? That get's into "the holocaust never happened" territory with me and I don't think we could find any common ground to have that discussion.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Docjoe View Post
                      Interesting topic. I'm an oncologist and I specialize in treating lung cancer. If you would spend a week with me and see the patients that I treat, any doubt that cigarettes are bad for you I think would quickly disappear. Yes, my experience is anecdotal. But 15 years of treating smokers dying of lung cancer has seemed like a trend to me.

                      Now having said that, I would staunchly defend the rights of anyone who chooses to smoke and don't think it should be banned. You could cynically say that it would be bad for my business if smoking went away but I do think that adults should have the right to make bad decisions for themselves (like eating junk food, being really obese, destroying their livers with alcohol, etc). But suggesting that cigarettes have no harmful effects? That get's into "the holocaust never happened" territory with me and I don't think we could find any common ground to have that discussion.
                      Please stick around and keep posting. This forum could use more scientifically grounded people such as yourself.

                      Comment


                      • i used to smoke. it started with the usual 'here try this!' with friends at 14, didn't really get hooked so i guess i was a social teen smoker and it went on through turning into smoking reds one after the other while stressed during a hideous relationship

                        i quit after my grandpa died. i mean literally, after the funeral. he was a long-time smoker that had developed lung cancer that spread throughout his body by the time it was found. bones, brain, everywhere. one day he was my usual grandpa, napping while everyone was talking around him or singing to the grandbabies with an arm pain that was bugging him. a few weeks later he was completely wasted away and glassy eyed with pain, paralyzed with pain, staring in the corner and panting like a dog with pain and he died right when the hospital people said he would

                        so i DO think cigarettes are that bad. it's not just tobacco, there are all kinds of nasty crap added in them and i'm pretty sure the crap has a good deal to do with cancer

                        i don't care if (general)you smokes, but i really don't want to be around it. the smell now makes me stomach and head hurt, and i've never been a fan of cigarette flavored kisses. but if i could get away with breaking all my relatives' cigs every time they bought a new pack, i would trample their civil rights like godzilla

                        god-zil-la
                        beautiful
                        yeah you are

                        Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                        lol

                        Comment


                        • What is young? Everybody dies young. And once you are dead, very soon nothing remains of you in this world. Give or take a couple of generations, all gone without a trace.

                          It is sad to see people kicking and screaming, leading miserable, nit-picking lives, obsessing over pursuit of pleasure and avoiding of pain as evil only to die and reduce to dust. There were once mighty warriors and emperors who laid waste to whole towns as a matter of fact and no trace of them remains today.

                          </end rant>
                          Few but ripe.

                          Comment


                          • Well I just lost a 48 year old mom and wife to lung cancer last month. She desperately wanted to see her daughter graduate from high school but didn't make it.

                            Besides dust and ash, there remains a sad young woman who's mom won't be around to see her get married or meet her kids.

                            She didn't do much pillaging or conquering in her life but I'm sure if she could go back in time, she would have told her teenage self how lighting up that first cigarette would someday take so much away from her.

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                            • When I was in 5th grade, my teacher did an anti-smoking schtick for a while (we had one every year) and cited life expectancy. I raised my hand and legitimately asked, "How do the doctors know when I am going to die?" No answer
                              "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

                              Jack london, "Before Adam"

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                              • Lkts of people dying while someone took note
                                beautiful
                                yeah you are

                                Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.
                                lol

                                Comment

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