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Primal eating and Christianity

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  • #46
    Biblically speaking? Bread (agriculture) was part of the punishment for betraying God.
    Previously, we lived in continual bounty:
    1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
    our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of
    the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle,
    and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that
    creepeth upon the earth.

    1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be
    fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue
    it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the
    fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth
    upon the earth

    1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb
    bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and
    every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed;
    to you it shall be for meat.

    But, once cast from Eden, we were forced to grow our own food. This food is sub-optimal, but that was part of the punishment for disregarding God's word.
    3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened
    unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of
    which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it:
    cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat
    of it all the days of thy life;

    3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou
    return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for
    dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

    As we were redeemed by Christ, we needn't suffer the limitations imposed on our ancestors. So bread was never good and is no longer required.

    All quotes from Genesis, King James' Bible.
    Last edited by Kochin; 07-29-2013, 04:23 PM.
    Perfection is entirely individual. Any philosophy or pursuit that encourages individuality has merit in that it frees people. Any that encourages shackles only has merit in that it shows you how wrong and desperate the human mind can get in its pursuit of truth.

    I get blunter and more narcissistic by the day.
    I'd apologize, but...


    • #47
      Most baked goods available today comes ultimately from grains concieved in a laboratory at Monsanto or some similar conglomerate. I would practically guarantee that our Lord and Saviour didn't partake of such fare. Even if He did have such shtuff, He is perfect, not subject to "sensitivities" or IBS, like I am. No grains (especially wheat) for me, fallen creature that I am.


      • #48

        I am a young earth, literal view of Genesis Christian, because if God is not powerful enough to have made the earth and mankind exactly as He states in His Word, how is He powerful enough to save us from our sin?? I take the Word of God literally unless it is clear within the context that is is metaphorical.

        It is interesting that apart from being commanded not to eat of the Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil and the Tree of Life, the only other time God gives a general command about food (apart from laws given to the Israelites regarding clean/unclean foods) is after the flood, when God instructs Noah that mankind must eat meat. Undoubtedly due to the change in environment since the "flood" which was more like a world-wide cataclysm, resulted because the fountains of the deep opened, and probably a firmament of water which had surrounded the earth was destroyed and the earth had less protection from the sun. (The earth also probably shifted 20 degrees on its axis). We certainly live in a less than perfect environment, and one far harsher than pre-flood days, but it is possible to maximise one's health by experimenting with what is good and what is not good for your own body.

        I would also very much affirm what others have said, that the grains in Biblical times are very different nutritionally than what we have available today. It is amusing to me when Paleo/Primal authors wax eloquent about what we have evolved to eat, then throw in "our body's are not designed to deal with...." They were designed, and sadly our bodies are not what they were meant to be. Hope you are able to help your mother see that just because a certain staple food was the cultural norm of Biblical times does not mean we must eat even those same ancestral grains, and even less so modern ones.


        • #49
          I wonder also whether the ancients actually prepared their grains in ways which rendered them more nutritious. Soaking, sprouting, fermenting etc. I have plenty of other foods to eat so I don't choose to go to all that trouble, but some folks do and perhaps they thrive. In which case it's not just a matter of whether to eat grains, but how.
          Annie Ups the Ante


          • #50
            Thanks, kochin. Well said. I have a friend who didn't get past the first three verses you quote, so refuses to change his diet on religious grounds. Now maybe I can point him at this...
            Don't judge men's wealth or godliness by their Sunday appearance. -Benjamin Franklin, statesman, author, and inventor (1706-1790)


            • #51
              I'm a Christian, but believe in evolution as one of the laws through which God (who is above and beyond our universe and our 4 dimensions of space time) guides creation. I find it interesting that in the story of Adam and Eve the Bible talks about the fruit of knowledge of good and evil and how, as a result of eating that, Eve's pain in childbirth is increased. To me it jibes very closely with the evolutionary perspective that it is our large brains (powered by a diet higher in animals fats, esp. omega-3, than other primates) that give us that morality, knowledge of ourselves and (IMO) the ability to perceive of God. Yet, these large brains combined with our upright gait (helpful for hunting those animals) are what make childbirth so potentially painful for human beings.

              In any case, I think it's clear that we've gotten away from the ancient wheats, properly prepared, in the Bible. And even without grains the Bible talks about eating animals, fruits and vegetables. Even the laws of kosher in Torah encourage ecologically and humanely raised foods and avoiding animal foods that are more likely to be pathogenic (trichinosis from pork, shellfish allergies, etc.) . . . and the hygiene laws of the old testament were very advanced for the time - far before germ theory ever came into existence - The Bible was encouraging regular washing, including washing hands before a meal.

              Since those ancient forms of wheat are difficult to find, I prefer to avoid grains altogether and my health has been better for it.
              Healthy Bucket List:
              • Summit all of Colorado's 14-ers
              • Hike the Appalachian Trail
              • Do a real pull-up
              • Run a 5k
              • Be "Hot For Training Camp"

              Check out my journey at Outdoor Amy's Blog.


              • #52
                Interesting thread! I am an Eastern Orthodox Christian. There is so much we don't know about our world's beginnings! I heard a monk once describe a theory I had never heard before -- this isn't dogma, it's a theory: God lives outside of time. When God created man and man had perfect communion with God, man was outside of time as well. When man decided to disobey God, and break communion with God by eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (on his own -- there are some fathers of the church that believe that God meant for man to eat of this tree when he had matured, but in the beginning man needed to first learn trust and obedience). When man decided to make his own decision to eat, apart from God, and when Adam and Eve did not even admit what they had done when God met with them that evening as usual, (they each blamed someone else rather than taking responsibility for their action -- who knows what might have happened if they had owned up to their sin at that point?) then -- according the monk I heard -- God created Time -- to give man time, and a lifetime to repent and return to Him.

                What if when scientists are seeing these millions and billions of time in prehistory, they are looking at eternity through the telescope of time?

                So -- I am not a young earth person or an old earth person -- I'm not a scientist, so I leave it to God. The Bible was not written to teach scientific truth -- it teaches spiritual truth. If we try to look at it scientifically, I think we can easily misinterpret what God is trying to tell us.

                I also believe that we can touch eternity in this life, one moment at a time. God inhabits the present moment, and for now that is our access to the timelessness of God. If we spend most of our time living in our memories of the past, or planning for the future, we miss our opportunity to be present with God.

                Anyway, that said, I see someone else brought up Wellness Mama's essay:Does the Bible Say We Should Eat Grains? - Wellness Mama which I'm referencing again because I found it so thought-provoking.

                In my church, during the services we have opportunities to eat bread that has been blessed -- communion, antidoran (a small piece of blessed bread to make sure all of the communion is swallowed), Litya (in honor of a saint we may have a special service with 5 loaves of bread sprinkled with sweet wine and cut in pieces and handed to the people), and sweetened boiled wheat at funeral and memorial services (because Jesus said: "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain." John 12:24). My husband and I have decided to stop eating grains at home and to only eat that which is blessed at church.

                Now, there are quite a few people at our church who have developed Celiac, or other problems with wheat. To those, our priest gives the tiniest crumb of bread (we receive communion on a spoon from the chalice which has a mixture of bread, wine, and water), he says it is now the body of Christ and won't hurt you. The other forms of blessed bread are optional, and people may avoid them if they choose. Also, now at our coffee hour potluck after the Sunday worship service we have many gluten-free offerings since we have so many people sensitive to gluten. As time goes on, I expect this trend to continue.

                The grain we have today, and the way we eat it today, is not the way it was done in biblical times. I see nothing against scripture by choosing to avoid modern grains.

                See my journal, The Balancing Act: Integrating Primal into My Life, for menu plans, musings, and more.


                • #53
                  Hello. Tell her to eat fish instead of red meats. Maybe it will change her mind because fish is a very "Christian" food.


                  • #54
                    Anybody read/know anything about Apocrypha? Specifically Enoch? I seem to recall something about nephilim/demons introducing humanity to agricultural techniques like grafting plants. As well as making weapons and stuff...
                    Actually, the whole tower of Bable thing is instructive; agriculturalised, industrialised civilisation is surely the crux of the issue . And Christianity surely agrees with that concept, yet lives within it.