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  • #46
    Also on top of debunking polyphasic sleeping, I'd like to throw a link here that I found in my email archives when I was searching.
    A single night of partial sleep deprivation induces insulin resistance in multiple metabolic pathways in healthy subjects.


    Plus one on this link - I'm living proof! And, you combine that with a high carb, disordered athlete vegetarian diet and you get bipolar disorder, and skinny fat, and starving hungry ...
    Seeking the natural way in a modern world ...

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    • #47
      Originally posted by wiltondeportes View Post
      Fair enough Mr. Primal Toad. It's not like you have to pass anything you do by me. I'm just trying to help you out. Taking verbatim from that my third link in my previous post as well as the research I am currently unable to find, there is not ONE proven case of a person who sleeps polyphasically like you are suggesting. It's one thing if that's what you body 'asks' you to do (you feel tired frequently, so you just nap and that works for you), but it's a whole another thing if you think it's going to give you more awake time in your day. It will probably put great stress on your body which does the reverse of what you are attempting to do: you want to essentially live longer by being awake more, but stress will rob you of that health and longetivity. Sleep is a valuable time of the day that recharges creativity and mind sharpness. It's not something you can avoid like Edison claimed to have done. Again, do what you want. I like your willingness to try stuff, but I don't believe sleep is something to mess with. Also if we looked at it with the primal microscope, I think it would be safe to say that Grok would not have been a 1 hour napper four times a day.
      I am getting the impression that you are not fully aware of what I am doing.

      I am taking 1-2 timed 20 minute naps during the day. I then go to bed when I am tired which has been later - around midnight. I then wake up when I wake up. That's it.

      Nothing really different from normal sleeping. I am not on some regimented schedule and I don't set an alarm clock. I only set a timer for my nap so I don't doze off for an hour or so.

      Now, I really wonder, what do you think about my "experiment?"
      Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Kelda View Post
        Also on top of debunking polyphasic sleeping, I'd like to throw a link here that I found in my email archives when I was searching.
        A single night of partial sleep deprivation induces insulin resistance in multiple metabolic pathways in healthy subjects.


        Plus one on this link - I'm living proof! And, you combine that with a high carb, disordered athlete vegetarian diet and you get bipolar disorder, and skinny fat, and starving hungry ...
        Again, I think some of you are not understanding what I am doing. Read my previous post in this thread please and then tell me what you think. I love all of your comments but need to bud in when it seems like some are not getting it.
        Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

        Comment


        • #49
          One more thing...

          There are plenty of people that sleep around 5 or 6 hours without a nap. I recall someone here sleeps 5 hours and feels awesome everyday. I am believing I will need less sleep at night by taking 1-2 20 minute naps during the day but only time will tell. I only wake up when I wake up and feel rested.

          Thoughts?
          Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Kelda View Post
            Also on top of debunking polyphasic sleeping, I'd like to throw a link here that I found in my email archives when I was searching.
            A single night of partial sleep deprivation induces insulin resistance in multiple metabolic pathways in healthy subjects.

            Plus one on this link - I'm living proof! And, you combine that with a high carb, disordered athlete vegetarian diet and you get bipolar disorder, and skinny fat, and starving hungry ...
            Well, I could sort of add +2 to it. Not me personally, but a family friend. He's around 55. Physically, he's not perfect but is in excellent shape internally. I mean that his heart, lungs, etc have been tested to be really great. Anyways, he came down with Type 2 Diabetes about 5 or so months ago. He is now a couple weeks from being completely diabetic free according to his doctor. He did not take drugs or ANYTHING. He read a lot of books about the issue, and then made 2 changes. One was a change in diet: he tells me he didn't realize the damage fructose did and thought all fruits were healthy. He'd gorge them on occasion. Two was he retired from his job: he worked nightshift for maybe 15-20 years at a local prison. He would go 24+ hours without sleeping often because they were shorthanded at work or he simply wanted to do other things during the day. He'd often take a 2-3 hour nap and go back at it. Anyways, he retired and is not getting atleast 6-7 hours a night. I realize this is an extreme example, but the fact that he cured (crosses finger...almost there) himself against doctor's advice is pretty extreme too.

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            • #51
              I have decided I am going to shoot for 1 20 minute nap a day. Tim Ferriss calls this "Siesta." In his book The 4 Hour Body it says this allows for around 6 hours of sleep.

              I am going to simply go to bed when I am tired as much as possible and then wake up when I wake up. I will record my bed times and wake times and if I am groggy when I wake up or during the day or at nap time, etc. My naps will be completely random but I think its best to take them at least 3 hours after waking up and 3 hours prior to going to bed. So sometime between 10 and 8 most days. This can easily be done.

              I may not fit in a nap some days but I will try my best. I am going to time myself for 20 minutes for 2 weeks and then do another 2 weeks without timing myself. This is the plan.

              Does anyone have any suggestions?
              Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

              Comment


              • #52
                Despite what Mr. Ferris might say, a 20 minute nap can never make up for the restorative power of two hours of sleep. The fact that you are young and have enough energy to power a small city buzzing out of your follicles just means that you are able to power through this sleep deprivation. It doesn't make it healthy, especially in the long run. Chronic elevated cortisol can completely wreck your metabolism. Be careful, please. I know you are having fun experimenting. This is not an attack, merely concern for your welfare.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  Despite what Mr. Ferris might say, a 20 minute nap can never make up for the restorative power of two hours of sleep. The fact that you are young and have enough energy to power a small city buzzing out of your follicles just means that you are able to power through this sleep deprivation. It doesn't make it healthy, especially in the long run. Chronic elevated cortisol can completely wreck your metabolism. Be careful, please. I know you are having fun experimenting. This is not an attack, merely concern for your welfare.
                  I appreciate your concern

                  How many hours of sleep do you think a 23 year old male needs? 50 year old male? Female? I don't think its a set 8 hours. Its a range. I am not saying that a 20 minute nap is going to replace 2 hours of sleep at night. Tim says it can but I have no idea. I am not setting my alarm. I am simply waking up when I wake up and feel rested. If I feel exhausted when I wake up then I will go back to sleep. I am going to record my bed times and wake times just to see if I have in fact been getting less sleep but still hold the same energy levels.

                  I never have to get up at a certain time so I think this experiment is fair. There is one change with my sleeping habits... one 20 minute nap during the day.

                  What I like about the nap is I literally do dream and remember my dream. Its fun. Its entertainment. Maybe my average sleep time will still be in the 7-8 range. If so, then I may quite my nap but I am not sure because of how much fun it is.

                  Do you get what I am really doing now? I think its a lot less than you think.
                  Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Primal Toad View Post
                    I am not setting my alarm. I am simply waking up when I wake up and feel rested. If I feel exhausted when I wake up then I will go back to sleep. I am going to record my bed times and wake times just to see if I have in fact been getting less sleep but still hold the same energy levels.

                    I never have to get up at a certain time so I think this experiment is fair. There is one change with my sleeping habits... one 20 minute nap during the day.

                    What I like about the nap is I literally do dream and remember my dream. Its fun. Its entertainment. Maybe my average sleep time will still be in the 7-8 range. If so, then I may quite my nap but I am not sure because of how much fun it is.

                    Do you get what I am really doing now? I think its a lot less than you think.
                    Naps are fun. I have nothing against naps. And as long as you are not forcing yourself to get up when anything less than fully reasted, good. I thought you were buying into Feriss' hypothesis that 20 min napping=2 hours sleeping and restricting your sleep accordingly. That's why I got concerned.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Mr Toad, you seem to have shifted what you are trying here! At the beginning it was 2 naps and 4-5 hours sleep a night - giving less than 6 hours of sleep per 24. Now you are shifting into something a little less 'extreme'.

                      However, I think what many of us have tried to point out here is that just because you can be energetic and power through your days doesn't mean that internally your body is enjoying the experience, and the internal is hard to assess and often takes some time before the detrimental affects show themselves and in fact your body will do its best to work around the stresses you are adding.

                      We will have evolved to be able to stand disrupted sleep from time to time but I think will be far less well adapted to having sleep patterns chronically adjusted. Just like the affects of adrenal fatigue, the onset of diabetes etc the toll is gathered over many years and sometimes decades before the damage shows. Many of us here urging caution are 20 years plus older than you and have had to learn the hard way!

                      At the end of the day humans are not nocturnal, we have poor night vision, we have a serotonin/melatonin cycle which responds to daylight. Many of the disease problems of modern society can be traced to stress induced by artificial lighting stretching days into 24 hours with constant enternainment always available etc, etc. This is not how Grok evolved.
                      Seeking the natural way in a modern world ...

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Diana Renata View Post
                        I can't tell you from personal experience, but it's been said that more blood is spilled at the Full Moon... perhaps having something to do with the Moon's influence over tides/water.
                        As someone who works in a hospital, I can tell you from personal experience. Full-moon brings out the crazies too!


                        Good luck with your experiment Primal Toad, I think what some people have said here is worth keeping in mind though. What we can survive on is not the same as what we thrive on. Take a look at Lights out: Sleep, sugar and survival by TS Wiley for the other side of the coin. Our cortisol/melatonin cycle is not something we want to f@#k around with.
                        My Journal

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                        • #57
                          I think if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it. Sleeping rhythms are not something you want to fuck around with. What if, through the course of your experiment, you knock something in your brain out of sync and it never comes back to normal?

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                            Naps are fun. I have nothing against naps. And as long as you are not forcing yourself to get up when anything less than fully reasted, good. I thought you were buying into Feriss' hypothesis that 20 min napping=2 hours sleeping and restricting your sleep accordingly. That's why I got concerned.
                            I will never do that. If I don't have to wake up without an alarm clock then I won't
                            Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Kelda View Post
                              Mr Toad, you seem to have shifted what you are trying here! At the beginning it was 2 naps and 4-5 hours sleep a night - giving less than 6 hours of sleep per 24. Now you are shifting into something a little less 'extreme'.

                              However, I think what many of us have tried to point out here is that just because you can be energetic and power through your days doesn't mean that internally your body is enjoying the experience, and the internal is hard to assess and often takes some time before the detrimental affects show themselves and in fact your body will do its best to work around the stresses you are adding.

                              We will have evolved to be able to stand disrupted sleep from time to time but I think will be far less well adapted to having sleep patterns chronically adjusted. Just like the affects of adrenal fatigue, the onset of diabetes etc the toll is gathered over many years and sometimes decades before the damage shows. Many of us here urging caution are 20 years plus older than you and have had to learn the hard way!

                              At the end of the day humans are not nocturnal, we have poor night vision, we have a serotonin/melatonin cycle which responds to daylight. Many of the disease problems of modern society can be traced to stress induced by artificial lighting stretching days into 24 hours with constant enternainment always available etc, etc. This is not how Grok evolved.
                              Sure, its less extreme now. I was just repeating what Tim had written in his book. He claims that if you take 2 20 minute naps then you will only need 4.5 hours of sleep. I have no idea if this is true for me. I am simply finding out.

                              I have been doing this for 4 days and have found out that I prefer 1 nap anyways. With 1 nap he says 6 hours will do. I refuse to set my alarm clock. I'll wake up when I wake up and will go to sleep when I feel tired at night as much as possible.

                              I have slept like a baby for the most part for all of my life. Especially for the past month. I averaged around 7 hours, up to 8 during the winter months. I NEVER took naps. Never ever. But, I am finding that I love them. Dreaming is a lot of fun. Its restful and forces me to get away from my computer. So I am simply going to see if taking an extra nap or 2 enables me to get less sleep. I always wake up well rested.

                              Although what makes studies sometime hard to follow and believe is that there are so many factors involved with everything that you can't control. I have always slept more at night during the winter months compared to the summer months. Well, guess what? There is about 3 minutes MORE daylight per day on average right now. So, I guess I will have to log my sleeping patterns for a full year while napping and then quit napping for a year.

                              Sounds like a plan for now...
                              Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by catzrin View Post
                                I think if it isn't broke, don't try to fix it. Sleeping rhythms are not something you want to fuck around with. What if, through the course of your experiment, you knock something in your brain out of sync and it never comes back to normal?
                                All I am doing is adding 1-2 20 minute naps per day. That's it. I am not forcing myself to wake up at a certain time or go to bed at a certain time. 1-2 20 minute naps have zero harm. At least that is what I believe until someone proves me wrong.
                                Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

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