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Calorie Counting Revisited : Distillation and Update

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  • Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
    No, you're not idiots. I'm just frustrated to see so many people struggle. Yes, there are many factors to consider, and it is mostly true that everyone's health has improved once they cut the junk out of their diet and went to eating real food. As for the weight loss, it baffles me that it doesn't happen automatically. To gain weight, I'd have to eat over 3000 calories of low-carb primal food daily, or at least 2500 calories of starchy primal food. It's just sad to me that anyone fails to lose weight, and that some have actually gained weight.
    I think it works for me. But maybe I'm one of the lucky ones.

    I do back and forth on this though. I mean, at first, nothing was happening so I was sure I was totally broken. What's it going to take??? Then the weight started to move and I started feeling great. Yay, it really does work! Then I got stuck for a couple of months without any weight loss. Boo, it doesn't work. I'm one of the broken ones. I tried this and that. Sometimes it seemed like stuff was working, sometimes not. Then I saw the scale moved again. Look at my siggy: starting weight 160 (that's a lie, it was actually 163) and current weight 133! Yay! It really does work! That's where I am now. Talk to me in a couple of weeks. I'll probably be back at Boo, it doesn't work.
    Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
      I want to know why it was so easy for me. Why do so many people struggle? I've lost 50 pounds and have nice abs, can do tons of body-weight workouts, and still eat globs of fat every day. I did cut back on the coconut milk and it did help get through those last few pounds. But I never eat bacon. It's trash. Tons of coconut oil, beef tallow, and avocado. Pound of meat a day is the goal - salmon, eggs, lamb, duck, grass-fed ground beef, a pound of liver, other odds and ends I might find. Greens and berries on the side, lots of herbs and some teas. I sip a bite of honey once a day for my allergies and take vitamin D every few days, and plenty of bone broth. Seaweed once or twice a week. It makes me mad that this doesn't work for everyone. Or are all you idiots eating bacon?
      I share your frustration ... as one on the other side. I eat just like you - except no honey. All pastured & organic meat & produce, lots of organ meats.

      I lose at the rate of less than .5lb/week, and have for the two years I've been primal.

      - Leptin sensitivity
      - Sugar addiction (result of hormone imbalance, gut flora dysbiosis, beta-endorphin receptor problems, or any combination)
      - Deep-seated illness affecting metabolism. This can include leptin resistance as above, autoimmune disease, gut dysbiosis, etc.

      I think women are much more likely to have deep-seated problems because we *tend* to be more health-conscious, and so we *tend* to be much more compliant with CW healthy advice - the very advice which totally destroys our health. I know 15 years of low-fat and 100% compliance with doctors passing out antibiotics like candy did me in.
      5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
      Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
      Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
      Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
      ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

      Comment


      • Absolutely it's a male/female difference biologically. Our bodies hold onto fat more for our own protection as well as the ability to have babies. We as the baby birthers need more calories and better bodily support during pregnancy. We didn't develop birth control until probably tens of thousands of years ago or so, noting which plants helped to reduce/inhibit fertility. When we did have children we typically breast them for far longer than we do today, about 3-4 years, which also helped reduce fertility. After the first year, feedings were probably only two-four times a day of 4-8 oz. This is partly nutrition but also where the children, at their most vulnerable growth stages also got their immunity via mothers milk. Point being this alone requires a great deal of the female body and we HAVE to hold onto the macro nutrients in order to support the baby machine or both have much higher risks of dying. Great for back in the Paleo day, not so great right now...will help during the Zompocalypse though, lol!

        I have added an extra scoop of protein to my drink in the Morning with my Athletic Greens and I have noticed a reduction in hunger throughout the rest of the morning, till I get to lunch. I'm shifting my meals to help me not have so much time between where possible and have stopped eating snacks and dropped the nuts for now. I'm now just needing to stuggling with seeing results. After midterms this week I get spring break to restart my workout schedule. Still struggling with the presence of Girl Scout cookies, was such a habit to buy them!!

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        • I will donate a box. Last year one of our GS troops actually sent boxes to our troops oversees if you donated them. A much better use for them than having them in my house.
          Chris
          "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
          Unknown

          My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

          My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
            I also don't believe that you can eat as much as you want as long as it is fat. Seriously, you can't eat 3000 calories of fat, as an average woman and lose weight. He does expect some contol over food intake for people trying to lose weight. This method works because 14oo calories of his allowable foods include a lot of great nutrition and fuel and are really satisfying. CW fails because 1400 calories of their foods don't get you the nutrition you need and are not satisfying enough to keep you satisfied for a long term change.
            Well said.

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            • Originally posted by paleo-bunny View Post
              There's no way I could force myself to track calories every day.
              I never weigh anything while cooking - I judge everything by eye.
              I reckon there must be at least +/- 10% variation in calorie content of most natural foods anyway, perhaps up to 30% for fruit and vegetables where sweetness levels vary.

              Also, as I live on my own and eat so much fresh food, sometimes I eat more than I need to in order to avoid food going to waste. Perhaps I could plan better, but I prefer to be spontaneous when shopping and cooking, and although I buy set staples weekly, I don't base my shopping on an exact list of meals I plan to cook. This would only lead to extra work and decision-making when certain ingredients are out of stock.

              In addition, I don't see any point in tracking calories in unless I also track estimate calories out, due to the variation in 'activity' I do each week, down to differences in the weather, social commitments, mood, etc.

              I keep an awareness of ballpark figures for average calories in, calories out overall, however, I'm sure there's huge variation in my calorie deficit/surplus at the daily and even weekly levels.

              Life's too short. I'd rather spend the time reading a novel or doing something else that I find life-enhancing.
              I find it life enhancing to be able to wear size 6 Levis. Calorie counting wasn't that hard and it wasn't something I had to do forever. It was a means to an end. All the stuff about counts being imperfect etc. are just excuses to not buckle down and get it done.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MamaGrok View Post
                The LR stopped my bingeing. It took several tries, and several months longer than those without sugar addiction issues (or other serious problems), but it did it. From the beginning, even before the bingeing stopped, the decrease in cravings was so huge that it stopped my weight gain and put it on pause. Once the bingeing stopped, I started losing.

                All this despite an enormous breakfast. Paleobird had a good experience with it, too, as I recall, although her time with it was short, for lack of serious issues, again, as my fuzzy memory recalls.

                The huge breakfast got even huger at one point, when I tried to increase it for experiment's sake, and yes, that was the nail in the coffin for the binges. After a month of 65g breakfasts, I lost all desire for lunch. Now I have no effort IFs every day from bkfst to dinner and dinner to bkfst. No desire for food at all in between, no longing, no missing it, nothing. It's been this way for ffour months, and my need for a giant bkfst is finally decreasing, too. I'm down to 50-55g each morning, and still having no desire for lunch at all.

                This isn't rare for those doing the reset.

                So long story short, the bkfst has led to me eating fewer calories all around, with no counting and no wishing for more.
                I switched from morning IFing (skipping breakfast) to big breakfast and skipping lunch. This worked really well for me. I think Dr. K is on to something about leaving enough hours in between meals and also the no snacking rule.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by gempdx44 View Post
                  I just read this entire thread on my lunch hour! Thank you so much for starting it Paleobird. I am one of those "older women" who has Paleo dialed in, but cannot seem to lose my 15 pounds of excess weight no matter how clean my diet was, I was still consuming too many calories.

                  Last week I did an experiment and still ate 100% Primal, but kept my average to no more than 1400 calories a day. This morning, I was down a 1/2 pound! It's not much, but it's good to see the scale moving in the right direction - I have been building some nice muscle working with a great trainer, but unfortunately it's buried under fat in some places on my body. I'm going to stick with this calorie level for awhile and see what happens ...
                  Well done. Yes. It's frustrating to "be doing everything right" but not seeing the magic happen. The solution is so simple.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                    the no snacking rule.
                    Snacking is what kills me. I always go for the quick snack instead of preparing a meal, it's so much more convenient. Then I snack so much I'm no longer hungry for a full meal so I opt for more snacking instead of an actual meal.

                    sigh.

                    Comment


                    • For me, I think the high protein breakfast is what pretty much stopped my need for afternoon snacks. I definitely do better without them.
                      Chris
                      "Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It is about learning to dance in the rain."
                      Unknown

                      My journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread36279.html

                      My "Program": doing my version of a 4:3 - 3 day fast diet with real food every day, with a little twist of anti-inflammatory mixed in.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Tuckerbutter View Post
                        Absolutely it's a male/female difference biologically. Our bodies hold onto fat more for our own protection as well as the ability to have babies. We as the baby birthers need more calories and better bodily support during pregnancy. We didn't develop birth control until probably tens of thousands of years ago or so, noting which plants helped to reduce/inhibit fertility. When we did have children we typically breast them for far longer than we do today, about 3-4 years, which also helped reduce fertility. After the first year, feedings were probably only two-four times a day of 4-8 oz. This is partly nutrition but also where the children, at their most vulnerable growth stages also got their immunity via mothers milk. Point being this alone requires a great deal of the female body and we HAVE to hold onto the macro nutrients in order to support the baby machine or both have much higher risks of dying. Great for back in the Paleo day, not so great right now.
                        Exactly. Also it varies based on the stage you are in in your weight loss. Many people, men and women, lose weight really easily at first but then hit a stall on that last few pounds. For me the first 30 fell off like magic just by going low carb. The last 35, I had to watch my caloric intake too.

                        But it worked. And I have kept it off.

                        Comment


                        • Hey Paleobird,

                          I've got another question for you: A lot of people say, if you're hungry, eat. Sometimes it's possible for me to feel really hungry outside of the 1500 calories I have set (even though I'm usually not). Should I accept that hunger as a necessary part of resetting my body's homeostasis? I've been reading more material from people like Chris Kresser that says the body will actually fight to stay at its current weight, so even if you've eaten enough nutritionally, your body will urge you to eat more just to maintain what it has:

                          Why It’s So Hard To Lose Weight – And Keep It Off

                          Personally, I believe my plateau (similar to yours because the first 30 came off easy) has more to do with my stress levels. I've officially given myself a break on losing weight until I get a job and am not so financially strapped. But I'm still wondering what role you think this homeostasis thing might be playing.
                          Starting weight: 225
                          Current weight: 195
                          Goal: One pull-up by December 31, 2012
                          Method: Schwarzbein Principle II, program for insulin sensitive/burned-out adrenals
                          My Primal Journey


                          Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Nutrition Facts For Foods

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Knifegill View Post
                            To gain weight, I'd have to eat over 3000 calories of low-carb primal food daily, or at least 2500 calories of starchy primal food. It's just sad to me that anyone fails to lose weight, and that some have actually gained weight.
                            I'm glad I stumbled across this thread because I was beginning to get flustered with all the "eat more bacon" dogma. Your post jumped out at me because I know without a doubt that if I eat more than 2000 calories a day on a regular basis, I'll gain weight. This was true under a SAD and now it appears to be true under a primal diet. The good news is that it's really hard for me to put away 2000+ calories under the primal diet.

                            It must have a lot to do with metabolic damage because at 6'1" and 300+ pounds, every source I've come across says that I'll burn more than 2000 calories just by breathing. Well that just ain't true for me.

                            Like the OP, my "numbers" are right on target every time I've checked and I definitely feel better. Allergies have cleared up, which is huge, and my energy level is pretty level for the most part (which is a big improvement). But losing a pound or two a week isn't going to cut it.

                            I'm eating loads of fat at every meal. Virtually no fruit or dairy (about 3 servings of fruit and about 2 ounces of cheese and maybe 2 tbsp of cream in 3 weeks). No sweets. No snacking during the day but late night is another issue. 99% primal. And my caloric intake is usually around 1500-2000 per day. I'm quite satisfied and occasionally full! Never hungry. But I fear I'm starting to backward and could possibly actually gain weight if I don't watch it.

                            I'm fairly active for my size but true exercise has proven very difficult so I guess I'm going to have to get real creative. Particularly frustrating is that when I did this two years ago I had fantastic weight loss results for the 3 months that I was committed ... but then I started at 50lbs less and was consequently much more active right out of the gate. My food allergies and IBS symptoms were actually worse two years ago than they were this time. Both times the cleared up right away. So I'm left to wonder about the activity level and caloric intake.

                            Looks like I'll be logging things for a while... both calories and exercise as well as P-F-C.
                            "If we’re not supposed to eat animals, how come they’re made out of meat?" - Tom Snyder, talk show host

                            Comment


                            • Like the OP, my "numbers" are right on target every time I've checked and I definitely feel better. Allergies have cleared up, which is huge, and my energy level is pretty level for the most part (which is a big improvement). But losing a pound or two a week isn't going to cut it.
                              I feel that way too- a pound or two a week sucks. BUT, when I look at how I starved and overworked my body in the past to lose weight or just maintain- the pound or two a week loss while being good to myself looks like a pretty sweet deal.

                              I look at success stories- oh yeah- jealous ofthe people who lost 40-50 lbs in a few months. But when I look at just my experience with weightloss and factor in all the years of starving, chronic cardio to lose... less than 1 or 2 pounds a week, Primal looks pretty effective because I can live a real life without worrying about packing on pounds and while gradually getting smaller.

                              http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
                              Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by magnolia1973 View Post
                                I feel that way too- a pound or two a week sucks. BUT, when I look at how I starved and overworked my body in the past to lose weight or just maintain- the pound or two a week loss while being good to myself looks like a pretty sweet deal.

                                I look at success stories- oh yeah- jealous ofthe people who lost 40-50 lbs in a few months. But when I look at just my experience with weightloss and factor in all the years of starving, chronic cardio to lose... less than 1 or 2 pounds a week, Primal looks pretty effective because I can live a real life without worrying about packing on pounds and while gradually getting smaller.
                                I would kill for 1 or 2 pounds a week! My weight loss has been awful. Part of it is that I was completely derailed by my vacation where there were very few vegetables to be found, but even since I've been back, nothing. No significant loss before my vacation either, for that matter. I've seen doctors, I've read everything I can on the forums, I'm very low carb, doing a ton of walking (10,000 steps a day) and I'm working on doing more weight/bodyweight training. It is so frustrating. I've even been IFing at least 3 times a week.

                                So, the point is, be proud of what you have accomplished. It's certainly better than anything I have to show for this lifestyle. I contemplate going back to CW every day even though I know it isn't actually very healthy.

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