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  • Climate Changers take another defeat

    UEA: the sweet smell of napalm in the morning… – Telegraph Blogs

    Awesome, good job UK
    Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
    Starting Weight: 294 pounds
    Current Weight: 235 pounds
    Goal Weight: 195 pounds

  • #2
    Although I support the right for any idiot to spout any idiocy they like, I'm always a little baffled by the notion that anyone opposes the reality of global climate change. I mean, there truly is no "controversy" within the scientific community. No one with any amount of actual expertise on the topic doubts it. It's like that whole pesky "evolution" thing. There is no controversy in the real world. There definitely is no controversy where the temperate rainforest in which I live is beginning to dry out.

    And, seriously, why the opposition? I mean, what benefit is there to sticking our collective heads in the sand and continuing to pour our money into OPEC nations and depending on non-renewable and carbon-producing sources of energy? A home-grown renewable energy industry IS "homeland security". Whether or not it's good for the planet is almost incidental. But there is no controversy within the scientific community that it is ;0).

    Global warming: Critics' review unexpectedly supports scientific consensus on climate change - Los Angeles Times --quoth XKCD: Science! It works, bitches ;0)
    Last edited by mixie; 04-19-2011, 05:30 PM.
    “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

    "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
    - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

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    • #3
      Because Manmade Global Warming failed so they changed to it Climate Change

      The climate is always changing and always has, but to ascribe it to man as being the reason for change or blaming on C02 is short-sighted at best

      It's based on shoddy science just like Ancel Keys' work

      The Germans poured massive amounts of subsidies into getting the Solar industry growing in their country, the companies took the money and went to China for manufacturing, so the Germans just gave China money meant for their own homegrown industry.

      The US has the largest Oil reserves in the world and the largest standing gas reserve as well, not to mention 200 years worth of coal
      Last edited by kenn; 04-19-2011, 05:38 PM.
      Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
      Starting Weight: 294 pounds
      Current Weight: 235 pounds
      Goal Weight: 195 pounds

      Comment


      • #4
        =)
        The beauty of science is that humankind's knowledge adapts as our understanding of the problem grows. That's the difference between "science" and "blind dogma". More data and more time means a more accurate understanding of the phenomenon. It's sorta like when Girolamo Fracastoro's "seed like entity" theory "failed" and so they changed it to the "germ theory" when a better understanding of microbiology was developed. Or, over a longer period of time, how Aristotle's theories of motion "failed" and with further understanding from the likes of Copernicus, Kepler, Gallileo, and Newton, "they" changed it to Gravity.

        I realize that no one can be reasoned out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into, but... still and all, it's a bit baffling.

        I am curious though. What's the benefit to continuing to pour our hard-earned money into OPEC nations, rather than developing safe and clean and renewable sources here at home? ...and what do German subsidies and the poor business practices of German manufacturers have to do with... well, anything?
        “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

        "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
        - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

        Comment


        • #5
          I am not sure if it is the height of arrogance or stupidity to think that human behavior can't impact the planet and its climate. Look around. We have, without doubt, caused the extinction of numerous species, killed entire bodies of water, and devastated other ecosystems everywhere. See if you can get tuna for $0.89 a can in a few years time. Why? Because tuna and other large fish will likely be extinct and I can guarantee it won't be from "natural fluctuations" in tuna populations.

          I can't imagine how spewing billions of tons of gases into the atmosphere, which have been locked away underground in fossil fuels for millions of years, can't have massive implications to a world that has largely been left to its own devices - save for the the last 300 years or so since the IR. Why individuals continue to deny our current and ongoing impact on the environment continues to astound me. We think things are bad now? Wait until India and China catch up to the North American style of consuming - we haven't seen anything yet.
          My photography:
          http://www.swiftimages.net

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mixie View Post
            =)
            The beauty of science is that humankind's knowledge adapts as our understanding of the problem grows. More data and more time means a more accurate understanding of the phenomenon. It's sorta like when Girolamo Fracastoro's "seed like entity" theory "failed" and so they changed it to the "germ theory" when a better understanding of microbiology was developed. Or, over a longer period of time, how Aristotle's theories of motion "failed" and with further understanding from the likes of Copernicus, Kepler, Gallileo, and Newton, "they" changed it to Gravity.
            So you're saying a trace element in the atmosphere is the blame for Climate Change?
            Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
            Starting Weight: 294 pounds
            Current Weight: 235 pounds
            Goal Weight: 195 pounds

            Comment


            • #7
              Also, in case you missed it the first time, here's an update on that "shoddy science": Global warming: Critics' review unexpectedly supports scientific consensus on climate change - Los Angeles Times
              “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

              "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
              - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mixie View Post
                Also, in case you missed it the first time, here's an update on that "shoddy science": Global warming: Critics' review unexpectedly supports scientific consensus on climate change - Los Angeles Times
                there is a scientific consensus that saturated fat is bad for you
                Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                Current Weight: 235 pounds
                Goal Weight: 195 pounds

                Comment


                • #9
                  ...Not exactly, is there? George McGovern did some hefty work imposing some sketchy science into popular culture, but a quick poke around PubMed reveals plenty of science to the contrary. It's more accurate to say that there's a public health consensus currently for, but trending away from the notion that saturated fat is bad for you.

                  Re: carbon influence, like I said: you can't be reasoned out of a position that you didn't reason yourself into. I still didn't see an answer to my questions. Why do you want to keep pouring our money into supporting Arabic nations, or continued reliance on a non-renewable energy source? Who do you suppose is backing the arguments that we should? Might it be the mostly Arabic-owned Fox "News" Network? ;0)
                  “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

                  "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
                  - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by mixie View Post
                    Might it be the mostly Arabic-owned Fox "News" Network? ;0)
                    Oh, but Mixie, don't you know that Fox News is Fair and Balanced?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mixie View Post

                      Re: carbon influence, like I said: you can't be reasoned out of a position that you didn't reason yourself into. I still didn't see an answer to my questions. Why do you want to keep pouring our money into supporting Arabic nations, or continued reliance on a non-renewable energy source? Who do you suppose is backing the arguments that we should? Might it be the mostly Arabic-owned Fox "News" Network? ;0)
                      You are making assumptions about me that are wrong

                      1) Because oil is so cheap there is no pressing economic to force innovation, the Arabic countries that export have decided they are going to sell out their #1 natural resource, additionally, most of Americas imports do not come from the ME.

                      2) Your first assumption is flawed so your second question is wrong
                      Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                      Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                      Current Weight: 235 pounds
                      Goal Weight: 195 pounds

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        About our oil and coal reserves... so what? What should we do in another two or three hundred years when that's all run dry? Why foist the problem onto future generations? Why not tap into it as a temporary measure to stop our money flowing out,while we work on devising a realistic, safe, clean, energy solution here at home? Renewable energy IS homeland security.
                        I realize that it's more fun and comfy and stuff to ignore the issue now and be all wasteful and destructive and stuff. We heard all the same arguments when the early natural resources like buffalo and timber were being ransacked and pillaged. Still and all, I just don't think it's a wise or forward-thinking argument on any level.
                        “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

                        "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
                        - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mixie View Post
                          About our oil and coal reserves... so what? What should we do in another two or three hundred years when that's all run dry? Why foist the problem onto future generations? Why not tap into it as a temporary measure to stop our money flowing out,while we work on devising a realistic, safe, clean, energy solution here at home? Renewable energy IS homeland security.
                          I realize that it's more fun and comfy and stuff to ignore the issue now and be all wasteful and destructive and stuff. We heard all the same arguments when the early natural resources like buffalo and timber were being ransacked and pillaged. Still and all, I just don't think it's a wise or forward-thinking argument on any level.
                          you've not done a lot of research on this topic
                          Starting Date: Dec 18, 2010
                          Starting Weight: 294 pounds
                          Current Weight: 235 pounds
                          Goal Weight: 195 pounds

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            *lol* again... what's your point, here? Whether or not our gas comes from Canada or Mexico, China and India are quickly ramping up to our consumption. Our policies affect global commerce. If America stays dependent on petroleum, so does the rest of the world. Arabic-owned Fox News absolutely has a vested interest in keeping you gung-ho for petroleum, whether or not your oil comes directly from them. Besides, the damages being done in Venezuela and Africa are plenty good reason to wean ourselves off foreign oil.

                            And again, so what if our reserves could last us another couple centuries? Why keep destroying the planet until there absolutely is no other solution? Wouldn't it be wiser to develop the technology now, and invest in American ingenuity and manufacturing, even as we tap into domestic stores as a stop-gap measure?
                            “Falconry is not a hobby or an amusement; it is a rage. You eat and drink it, sleep it and think it. You tremble to write of it, even in recollection. It is as King James the First remarked, an extreme stirrer up of passions.” --T.H. White, The Godstone and the Blackymor

                            "The world must be all fucked up when men travel first class and literature goes as freight."
                            - Gabriel Garcia Marquez, One Hundred Years of Solitude

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mixie View Post
                              Although I support the right for any idiot to spout any idiocy they like, I'm always a little baffled by the notion that anyone opposes the reality of global climate change. I mean, there truly is no "controversy" within the scientific community. No one with any amount of actual expertise on the topic doubts it. It's like that whole pesky "evolution" thing. There is no controversy in the real world. There definitely is no controversy where the temperate rainforest in which I live is beginning to dry out.
                              I'm sorry, but this is bunk.

                              Sure, the climate may be changing. It's been changing since the beginning of time on this planet, and it will continue to change, with or without us.

                              I wonder... that heat wave through the middle ages... how many SUVs people were driving around then, or where all the evil carbon was coming from. And the other planets in our solar system that are warming. Is ET up there polluting Mars too?

                              There IS controversy in the scientific community. If there wasn't, we wouldn't be discussing it, would we?

                              Fact is, it' has not been proven that people have anything to do with the temperature of the planet or the weather. I, for one, almost wish we did. I'm getting really sick of 20-degree weather in NY, and winters lasting 6-7 months of the year.

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