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Reality check: Counting calories

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  • Originally posted by canio6 View Post
    That could be, but if you were tracking how do you account for the gained weight? My GF tracks because of the 'calories in - calories out' idea that is ingrained.
    You know how stressed I've been the past month. I think its due to stress pure and simple. It raises cortisol.
    Georgette

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    • Originally posted by geostump View Post
      You know how stressed I've been the past month. I think its due to stress pure and simple. It raises cortisol.
      Could be. I need to read more about this cortisol stuff.

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      • Raz, GURL, calm down!
        Apathy is tyranny's greatest ally.

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        • Razz-

          I don't claim to know more than Friedman. I'm not sure you're the most cogent or credible mouthpiece for Dr. Friedman. You don't enhance your credibility by slamming Colpo (who I don't think anyone here has cited as an authority) or by continually making references to the same studies that are only tangentially responsive to this conversation.

          Nobody is advocating calorie counting as a stand-alone response to weight management. Nobody is claiming that calorie counting is an effective means of maintaining "long-term" energy balance. That's because neither of those two propositions are the point. The point is whether calorie counting (in addition to proper hormonal control) is a useful tool for getting from Weight X to Weight X-40. As you've done so much study on this, I'm sure you're aware of the countless scientific studies that have shown this to be true. Scientists have made thin rats fat and fat rats thin. They've done so in part by manipulating hormones and in part by manipulating calories.

          Everyone on this thread understands that long-term weight loss success stories are rare. And we all take Dr. Bacon's admonition that we should work to improve our other health markers regardless of the number on a scale to heart. But I humbly suggest that nothing you've brought to the table in this thread is particularly groundbreaking or interesting. I'd also suggest that multiple replies to the same post using ALL CAPS is a pretty reliable way to get dismissed as a kook on the internet. Frankly, it kind of makes you sound like Colpo. Be like Dr. Friedman. I'll bet he's never even used his Caps Lock key.

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          • Well, I can only report on my own n=1 experiments on myself. I think the point that many people have been trying to make throughout this thread is that you have to take both quantity AND quality of food. Sorta like the "is light a particle or a wave" debate of yesteryear, it's both! So it's true that folks can run experiments that look like they 'prove' both.

            I made these observations in my own posting (with pictures!) but I'll repeat here:

            A- You can lose weight really quickly on primal or unweighed paleo when you are really overweight.

            B- When you get to around 30 pounds over "ideal" - meaning looking like Brat Pitt, weight, things are gonna get harder and you WILL have to calorie restrict.

            C- Paleo "treats" like almond flour cookies and pancakes and whatnot WILL put weight on if it isn't a VERY occasional treat if you've been obese before.

            D- Paleo Balls are the devil. They will make you gain weight REAL quick.

            E- Even on a fairly calorie restricted Paleo diet, your body will WANT to keep 10 pounds or so of "emergency" fat on your body. I'd say this is because you are eating nutrient dense foods here!

            F- The last 10 pounds... the elusive 6 pack! Time will tell! I'm not sure that it is even possible to go from morbidly obese to ripped. If anyone has, I'd love to know!
            Apathy is tyranny's greatest ally.

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            • Originally posted by KestrelSF View Post
              Sorta like the "is light a particle or a wave" debate of yesteryear, it's both! So it's true that folks can run experiments that look like they 'prove' both.

              F- The last 10 pounds... the elusive 6 pack! Time will tell! I'm not sure that it is even possible to go from morbidly obese to ripped. If anyone has, I'd love to know!
              Hey! The Michelson-Morley experiments! I went to the college where those experiments were run...no googling now!

              As to F- I know people who have. Two in particular who were both morbidly obese. One went on to compete in bodybuilding stuff. She has been at or below maintenance for 9 years (below being when she would cut body fat for a competition). The other has been at maintenance for coming up on 6 years now. She did have to have skin removal surgery though. But she was in her early 50's when she started losing the weight so skin elasticity no so much.
              MTA: because it is rare I dont have more to say

              "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - my daughter Age 7

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              • Originally posted by scooby View Post
                Razz-

                I don't claim to know more than Friedman. I'm not sure you're the most cogent or credible mouthpiece for Dr. Friedman. You don't enhance your credibility by slamming Colpo (who I don't think anyone here has cited as an authority) or by continually making references to the same studies that are only tangentially responsive to this conversation.

                Nobody is advocating calorie counting as a stand-alone response to weight management. Nobody is claiming that calorie counting is an effective means of maintaining "long-term" energy balance. That's because neither of those two propositions are the point. The point is whether calorie counting (in addition to proper hormonal control) is a useful tool for getting from Weight X to Weight X-40. As you've done so much study on this, I'm sure you're aware of the countless scientific studies that have shown this to be true. Scientists have made thin rats fat and fat rats thin. They've done so in part by manipulating hormones and in part by manipulating calories.

                Everyone on this thread understands that long-term weight loss success stories are rare. And we all take Dr. Bacon's admonition that we should work to improve our other health markers regardless of the number on a scale to heart. But I humbly suggest that nothing you've brought to the table in this thread is particularly groundbreaking or interesting. I'd also suggest that multiple replies to the same post using ALL CAPS is a pretty reliable way to get dismissed as a kook on the internet. Frankly, it kind of makes you sound like Colpo. Be like Dr. Friedman. I'll bet he's never even used his Caps Lock key.
                Well said Scooby.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by KestrelSF View Post
                  I think the point that many people have been trying to make throughout this thread is that you have to take both quantity AND quality of food.
                  A- You can lose weight really quickly on primal or unweighed paleo when you are really overweight.
                  B- When you get to around 30 pounds over "ideal" - meaning looking like Brat Pitt, weight, things are gonna get harder and you WILL have to calorie restrict.
                  Exactly. That's the point in the journey at which I find myself at the moment.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by KestrelSF View Post
                    F- The last 10 pounds... the elusive 6 pack! Time will tell! I'm not sure that it is even possible to go from morbidly obese to ripped. If anyone has, I'd love to know!
                    Isn't Rivvin a good example of that?

                    Comment


                    • Um, Dave Parsons!

                      B- When you get to around 30 pounds over "ideal" - meaning looking like Brat Pitt, weight, things are gonna get harder and you WILL have to calorie restrict.
                      I think that there is no doubt that this is true for many, and I expected it to be true for me, but it hasn't been to date. I've lost 40 and have 10 to go to my goal (and 20 to my dream). (I started at obese BMI and just moved into "normal", for whatever BMI is worth.)

                      I don't know why, but maybe has to do with the fact that I've restricted practically every kind of carb trying to get rid of a bloating problem and severe sugar cravings. Through my year of primal, I've gotten more and more strict (although it hasn't sped weight loss), and am now avoiding grains, sugars, starchy veggies, fruits, & all dairy. But I don't limit calories at all. I eat loads and loads of fat. No bacon, though; I just don't care for it.

                      Like I said above, though, this WOE does naturally limit the amount I eat b/c it is so satisfying. I've had a binge eating problem for years, but not at all so long as I stick to the very low carb foods.

                      I think you're mostly right on with your other observations and mostly right on with this one, too - it just hasn't been true for me. (and boy, am I grateful. there are enough battles with my gut I have to deal with without adding weight plateaus to the list)
                      5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                      Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                      Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                      Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                      ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                      Comment


                      • It was just at that upper edge of the officially "normal" range that I hit the limit of what PB without calorie restriction could do for me. I am aiming for the middle of the normal range, for me 150, for you maybe more like 120. That would just be by the quick and dirty calculation of 100lbs plus 5 for every inch over 5 feet tall. I was surprised though, at how accurate this old fashioned calculation was for me. I ran half a dozen different bMI calculators and, when averaged out, the result was almost exactly 150 lbs. That's also what I weighed at 18. Not everybody has to have their high school weight as a goal of course.

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                        • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                          Not everybody has to have their high school weight as a goal of course.
                          That's good, cos my weight at 18 was about what it is now! I have just gained and lost 100lbs since then. I have no idea what my goal is or whether I'm capable of getting to 70kgs which is where I think my body would look at it's best.
                          I'll just have to see what I look and feel like as I get closer.
                          My Journal

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                          • I certainly don't want to get down to my high school weight. Too weedy at 64kg (BMI 19.8). In my first years at Uni, I noticed that if I was exercising regularly, I'd pack on 3-4kg. In those days I was a bottomless food disposal system. That changed in my late 20s, but only mildly
                            Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                            Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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                            • 18 was the perfect time for me physically. In high school I was not only lean but also very muscular from lots of surfing. After that, college dorm food, eating junk while studying late hours, too little sleep, too little exercise, etc. set in. I could get straight A's in HS without much effort. I actually had to work for my grades in Uni. I've been fighting those few extra put on in college for many years.

                              Right now, I am basically back to where I was before I got cancer and even a bit better. Now I want to get back though those college pounds to the surf goddess that I was and that I know is still inside me.

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                              • I was 135 in high school. And ten years later, too. I killed myself with cardio and lowfat and got down to 120 after my first child - consistently showed 12-13% BF on caliper tests (although I never believed them, no matter where or who did the test, b/c they didn't measure the places I carry fat).

                                Still, I do understand your point and again, totally appreciate all the discussion going on here. The reason I poked my head in is because I *do* keep waiting for the other shoe to drop, so to speak, and want to be prepared with info if/when it does.

                                There's also the possibility that I just don't struggle with overeating on this plan (much like you don't struggle with sugar compulsion) - as long as I actually eat only primal foods - , and may never need to reduce my fat. But I want to keep my mind open to that option if it should come to that.
                                5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                                Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                                Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                                Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                                ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                                Comment

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