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  • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
    Not being diabetic or anywhere near it, I have never felt the need to measure blood sugar levels. When I'm fasting, I don't feel like the typical "low blood sugar" weakness, shaky feeling or any of that stuff. If anything I feel really good. Alive, focused, intense. My workouts are great fasting.
    That describes me too but last Nov for the heck of it I got my A1C levels checked and it was 5.1% (not so good considering how I eat.) I started measuring my BG just out of curiosity and found that it was spiking up to 130 just with berries or too big a meal even if it was low carb high fat. I've been very surprised at the results and am going in for me tests tomorrow to figure this one. My fasting BG can go from 86-100 too. By the way I'm 27, 5'7 and 120 lbs. My diet is totally PB minus the dairy. In the last few weeks I've started doing IF with a 6-7 hr window and raised my fat intake to 65% or so and cut out all fruit and sweet potato. I can see my abs as of a couple of days ago:-)
    In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. -- Albert Camus

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    • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      First of all, walks of 10-12 miles are a part of my workout routine on a weekly basis, nothing all that "ramped up" about adding one more mile.
      The best reason for physical activity is stress relief, again hormonal control.

      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      Second, I know you don't get fat by eating fat. That's why PB works well as maintenance. You just don't lose weight but you do get to eat bacon.
      Hmm... not sure what you mean, but there obviously have been people able to burn off fat following PB.

      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      So, how would you suggest I go about making my hormones change so as to be better at burning fat?
      Avoid the Neolithic Agents of Disease as described by Dr. Kurt Harris: wheat, fructose, and linoleic acid.

      Track macronutrients, not calories...
      There is No Such Thing as a Macronutrient Part I - Fats
      No Such thing as a macronutrient part II - Carbohydrates (revised)

      Take useful measurements... weight, body fat %, blood tests, etc. and use something that can help make statistical correlations...
      Health Correlator: HealthCorrelator for Excel (HCE) is now publicly available for free trial

      Eat the right foods until you're full and keep count of the specific nutrients (as listed out by Dr. Harris) after you've eaten them. Don't pre-measure (mise en place?) because you may limit your nutritional intake a priori. I would go with Tim Ferris' suggestion of keeping the meals simple by not having too much variety. It'll be easier to track nutrients.

      Do this for a few weeks to get some baseline measurements. Then start adjusting the nutrient quantity one at a time for two weeks and keeping the other nutrients constant. See what the body measurement trends show. If you use the statistical software, you should start seeing some associations and correlations.

      You may be surprised at your own experimental results if you're capable of keeping track of useful things. My guess is one has to eat more of the right kinds of foods to change the hormonal milieu.

      We're not going to out smart our bodies and the hormones that control it with our misunderstanding of thermodynamics. Think of the excess fat as our bodies way of laughing at our misunderstanding of the universe. If we want to burn off our excess stored energy, we have to eat like there's plenty more where that's coming from. Otherwise, the hormonal milieu will be such that the body believes food is in short supply and start storing it.

      Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
      BTW, all constructive dialogue is welcome but implying that I might not have the wisdom or judgement necessary not to jump off a cliff just makes me want to tell you where you can jump off. This is a complex question with lots of conflicting but equally reasonable points of view. Let's work through it together.
      Yeah, you don't get it. That was a rhetorical question. The reason people don't go jumping off cliffs to make sure they don't fall up is because we know we're always going to fall down, Newton's Law of Gravity. The first law of thermo says energy will always be conserved. The universe doesn't need us counting it to make sure things are in order.

      I'm thinking Ralph Wiggum was a calorie counter.
      Last edited by js290; 03-01-2011, 11:33 PM.

      Comment


      • One of the main reasons I walk IS stress relief.
        If you read my original post you would see that I do say it does work as weight loss for some people, just not for me.
        No Neolithic Agents of Disease here. I don't think you can call a few blueberries Neolithic.
        That's why I started this whole thread. I AM aware of the science and I AM doing everything right according to the science but I'm not getting the results.
        And BTW, I do understand rhetoric AND the laws of thermodynamics. It was the snarkiness factor that was unnecessary.
        You : "My guess is one has to eat more of the right kinds of foods to change the hormonal milieu."
        Even you are guessing. You're just guessing with a know-it-all-attitude.
        And, if you need a cartoon to make your point.............. again snarkiness is not a good way to interact among adults.

        I am asking questions and a lot of really great people have put their time and thought into participating in this discussion. I'm obviously far from being the only one who has experienced this situation. Even some extremely well informed people such as Batty have times when they see things from different perspectives. I appreciate all of your contributions.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
          One of the main reasons I walk IS stress relief.
          If you read my original post you would see that I do say it does work as weight loss for some people, just not for me.
          No Neolithic Agents of Disease here. I don't think you can call a few blueberries Neolithic.
          That's why I started this whole thread. I AM aware of the science and I AM doing everything right according to the science but I'm not getting the results.
          And BTW, I do understand rhetoric AND the laws of thermodynamics. It was the snarkiness factor that was unnecessary.
          You : "My guess is one has to eat more of the right kinds of foods to change the hormonal milieu."
          Even you are guessing. You're just guessing with a know-it-all-attitude.
          Good luck with your calorie counting... Yous gots to do what yous gots to do...

          Comment


          • Paleobird,

            You have a few choices obviously. Whatever you do, give it at least 4-6 weeks before deciding if it works or not. You have heard on this thread to eat more, eat less, eat fewer carbs, cut this out, cut that out, that you might have hormonal problems, stress, etc. I think it's gotten complicated, and yes, confusing. If you have been to the doctor and had blood work done in the past year, then you know the answer on hormones. If not, check it out at your next visit. Your workout looks great, and is similar to what I do. A lot of walking is really good, even if it's just 3-4 miles each day. Other than that, it's diet. Try one piece of advice, give it a month or so, and see how it works for you.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
              One of the main reasons I walk IS stress relief.
              If you read my original post you would see that I do say it does work as weight loss for some people, just not for me.
              No Neolithic Agents of Disease here. I don't think you can call a few blueberries Neolithic.
              That's why I started this whole thread. I AM aware of the science and I AM doing everything right according to the science but I'm not getting the results.
              And BTW, I do understand rhetoric AND the laws of thermodynamics. It was the snarkiness factor that was unnecessary.
              You : "My guess is one has to eat more of the right kinds of foods to change the hormonal milieu."
              Even you are guessing. You're just guessing with a know-it-all-attitude.
              And, if you need a cartoon to make your point.............. again snarkiness is not a good way to interact among adults.

              I am asking questions and a lot of really great people have put their time and thought into participating in this discussion. I'm obviously far from being the only one who has experienced this situation. Even some extremely well informed people such as Batty have times when they see things from different perspectives. I appreciate all of your contributions.
              ironically, exercise is a stressor. so is calorie restriction.

              js290's delivery was a little condescending, but i agree with his points. laws of thermodynamics do apply to us, but not in the ways we think it does, because we have these things called hormones. if it were a matter of just reducing calories to get smaller, then there wouldn't be these cases of obesity in places where there is a lack of the right food. there wouldn't be these people that seemingly eat endless amount of food and stay lean.

              its not about limiting the amount of food, its getting your hormones under control, and finding WHAT food allow you to accomplish this.

              we are all so obsessed with this calories in/calories out model and while thermodynamics certainly do apply to us, our default thinking is to just reduce the left side of the equation and everything will be hunky dory. but we all know that it is not, because if it were that simple, we would not have all these stories about 'dieting' being so hard and so, so many people failing at just 'eating less'.

              if i calorie restrict, sure, i get smaller, but the level of my body fat stays the same, and sometimes it goes up. and i am good with restriction for a while, and all of a sudden i'll go on a several day bender where i eat my face off.

              reduce the left side of the equation, and the right side could get even lower.

              what i think people need to do is focus more on the right side of the equation. put the right amount and right kind of energy into the left side so that the right side naturally gets higher than the left. if you are forcing yourself to take those walks, if you don't wake up in the morning and feel like you could run a marathon* right then and there, then you're not giving your body what it needs to make the right side higher than the left.

              Originally posted by Kurt Harris
              Our Paleolithic ancestors did not have to be careful to avoid too much starch or too much saturated fat at one sitting. To suggest so would require that normal humans eating real food are in grave danger without access to fitday’s calculator. Only focusing on test-tube science to the exclusion of common sense can lead to such ideas.

              I refuse to believe our bodies could be that stupid.

              *extreme example.
              sigpic

              HANDS OFF MY BACON :: my primal journal

              Comment


              • I love that Kurt Harris quote. As an "anti numbers" person, that really speaks to me!

                Oh - and I would LOVE to wake up raring to run a marathon - but I'll settle for this morning when I woke up enthusiastic to go work out hard at the gym!

                Comment


                • I relate to this too. I want to be able to lose more weight just with dietary changes, rather than having to increase my activity levels and eating less. Although I think for me part of the problem is that I've never been that strict with the diet, and I also have hormonal and nutrient/mineral issues to tackle. But since my activity levels have gone up recently I'm actually trying to eat more and 'maximize nutrition' I guess you could say. I think I'm going to experiment with a certain calorie range every few days and see how that works.

                  This may be a long shot, but have you considered taking a daily multivitamin, if you don't already? Especially with the fasts. I'm not a fan of the 'your body is starving' theory, but I do think there is some truth to it in that it's important to get all nutrients to lose weight.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
                    Paleobird,

                    You have a few choices obviously. Whatever you do, give it at least 4-6 weeks before deciding if it works or not. You have heard on this thread to eat more, eat less, eat fewer carbs, cut this out, cut that out, that you might have hormonal problems, stress, etc. I think it's gotten complicated, and yes, confusing. If you have been to the doctor and had blood work done in the past year, then you know the answer on hormones. If not, check it out at your next visit. Your workout looks great, and is similar to what I do. A lot of walking is really good, even if it's just 3-4 miles each day. Other than that, it's diet. Try one piece of advice, give it a month or so, and see how it works for you.
                    It's been 5 months.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by denise View Post
                      I love that Kurt Harris quote. As an "anti numbers" person, that really speaks to me!

                      Oh - and I would LOVE to wake up raring to run a marathon - but I'll settle for this morning when I woke up enthusiastic to go work out hard at the gym!
                      I am SO an anti-numbers person. That's what drew me to PB in the first place. I have plenty of energy on this plan. I love that. I walked that 1/2marathon yesterday and feel like I could easily do it again today.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by batty View Post
                        ironically, exercise is a stressor. so is calorie restriction.

                        js290's delivery was a little condescending, but i agree with his points. laws of thermodynamics do apply to us, but not in the ways we think it does, because we have these things called hormones. if it were a matter of just reducing calories to get smaller, then there wouldn't be these cases of obesity in places where there is a lack of the right food. there wouldn't be these people that seemingly eat endless amount of food and stay lean.

                        its not about limiting the amount of food, its getting your hormones under control, and finding WHAT food allow you to accomplish this.

                        we are all so obsessed with this calories in/calories out model and while thermodynamics certainly do apply to us, our default thinking is to just reduce the left side of the equation and everything will be hunky dory. but we all know that it is not, because if it were that simple, we would not have all these stories about 'dieting' being so hard and so, so many people failing at just 'eating less'.

                        if i calorie restrict, sure, i get smaller, but the level of my body fat stays the same, and sometimes it goes up. and i am good with restriction for a while, and all of a sudden i'll go on a several day bender where i eat my face off.

                        reduce the left side of the equation, and the right side could get even lower.

                        what i think people need to do is focus more on the right side of the equation. put the right amount and right kind of energy into the left side so that the right side naturally gets higher than the left. if you are forcing yourself to take those walks, if you don't wake up in the morning and feel like you could run a marathon* right then and there, then you're not giving your body what it needs to make the right side higher than the left.
                        But stressors are not to be avoided at at costs are they? If so I could just sit here with a plate of bacon and lose weight.

                        Everybody keeps saying it the hormones and I agree it probably is. But how exactly does one change ones hormones? The only advice offered by Taubes is don't eat carbs. I'm already doing that. I'm only eating the "good calories" but might there still be such a thing as too much of a good thing?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                          But stressors are not to be avoided at at costs are they? If so I could just sit here with a plate of bacon and lose weight.
                          well, no, because then we'd have to live our lives in isotanks and just not live. heh. however - a lot of exercise + not enough calories to fuel exercise = stress on the body = cortisol production, which results in.....belly fat.

                          there are quite a number of people who have posted in the lengthy 'before and after photos' thread who have changed to PB and have leaned out beautifully without a lot of exercise and yes, eating a plate full of bacon. i cant recall their names specifically but they are there.

                          Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                          Everybody keeps saying it the hormones and I agree it probably is. But how exactly does one change ones hormones? The only advice offered by Taubes is don't eat carbs. I'm already doing that. I'm only eating the "good calories" but might there still be such a thing as too much of a good thing?
                          taubes also says that exercising for weight loss is futile.

                          you can't change your hormones, but you can change what you give your body to change how your hormones react.

                          Originally posted by the primal blueprint
                          Yes, I agree that some serious genetic diseases exist which are best treated with modern, truly life-saving drugs, but for the vast majority of the minor genetic variations that exist throughout the human genome, the real deciding factor as to whether or not a particular gene will be expressed in a particular manner, if at all, comes down to what you eat, how you move, what kind of air you breathe, what you think – in other words your environment.
                          sigpic

                          HANDS OFF MY BACON :: my primal journal

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                          • Originally posted by batty View Post
                            however - a lot of exercise + not enough calories to fuel exercise = stress on the body = cortisol production, which results in.....belly fat.
                            This.

                            I know you don't like to count calories but you have to find out where you are in terms of calorie consumption to find out if you are (or aren't) stressing your body. You don't need to "feel" stressed for your body to be stressed out.

                            At your age/height/weight you should be consuming about 2300 (yeah, I know, may sound like alot) just to MAINTAIN your current bw. A calorie deficit of 500-1000 per day should result in 1-2 lb fat loss. But if you're doing more than that plus the exercise than cortisol production is going to kick in.

                            You're IF'ing for 3-4 days for 24 hrs each (why that is I still don't comprehend). I'm going with the assumption that on your non-IF days you're consuming around 1600 calories. If you only IF 3 days a week you're still only consuming 6400 calories a week. Average that it comes out to 915 calories a day. If you're not exercising that may be fine but you are. And your body is basically doing a "WTF is this chick doing?" to you and being stubborn with those few lbs.

                            You don't need to obsess over your calorie count (no one should) but it doesn't hurt to see where you are every once in a blue if things don't seem right for you.

                            Maybe I'm not right. Who knows? I mainly come here for the chicks.
                            PB Stats:
                            Started 5/10/10
                            Starting Weight: 215
                            Current Weight (1/25/11): 180
                            Goal Weight: 160

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by batty View Post
                              a lot of exercise + not enough calories to fuel exercise = stress on the body = cortisol production, which results in.....belly fat.

                              there are quite a number of people who have posted in the lengthy 'before and after photos' thread who have changed to PB and have leaned out beautifully without a lot of exercise and yes, eating a plate full of bacon. i cant recall their names specifically but they are there.

                              taubes also says that exercising for weight loss is futile.

                              you can't change your hormones, but you can change what you give your body to change how your hormones react.
                              Don't worry. I don't intend to take either calorie restriction or exercise to a fanatical level.

                              The people who leaned out are like your buddy TFG. Switching from a self described "twinkie hound" to PB he dropped that first 30 like it was nothing.

                              I thought exercise helped improve the hormonal balance by increasing muscle mass. Why does Taubes think it's futile again?

                              So what should I be giving my body to change how the hormones react? Other than minimal carb which I already do.

                              Comment


                              • I thought exercise helped improve the hormonal balance by increasing muscle mass. Why does Taubes think it's futile again?
                                He thinks it's futile as a way to lose body fat. Cites studies showing that people tend to overeat when they exercise, so they never create a calorie deficit.

                                So what should I be giving my body to change how the hormones react? Other than minimal carb which I already do.
                                Fewer carbs if you are as carb-sensitive as I am. You may still be eating too many and keeping your insulin levels too high for the fat to be released.

                                Bioidentical estrogen, if your post-menopausal estrogen is too low (low estrogen triggers belly fat storage because fat produces estrogen in post menopausal women--but that might not be kosher with the docs, given your medical history...)

                                FWIW, I am leaning out nicely on my 20 g carbs and 1500 calories. I have plenty of energy now that I have keto-adapted.
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