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  • #31
    Originally posted by jammies View Post
    So by the "suck it up" logic, that means I was a whiney loser then, but now suddenly I have all this discipline and strength? I don't think so.

    I am still the same person, with the same motives for health, and the same will-power. What has changed is the biochemistry in my body.
    YES, THIS!

    You put it so much better than I could hope to.
    "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." -- Hippocrates

    Comment


    • #32
      There's actually very little, if any, I've ever seen on this blog & forum, or any other devoted to "real food" or primal/paleo eating, that helps you deal with cravings in a specific way. When I first went "traditional foods", inspired by Weston Price, I still ate lots of grains, and failed literally every. single. day. when I'd try to quit eating sugar. It took nearly a year for me to realize that I needed to kick grains in order to kick sugar, and then another year to realize that I couldn't just "eat more protein;" I needed to have a full serving with every meal, starting with breakfast, to stabilize my blood sugar. Fortunately, I did clue in to the fat pretty early on, that it really meant EAT AS MUCH AS YOU WANT and you won't die of a heart attack despite what the doctor says.

      I see people come here time and time again saying they want to eat primally; they know they need to; they know they'll have head-to-toe health improvements, but they can't even make it through one day. I wish I had hours a day just to spend here telling them what I've learned (not just in myself, but in many others), but I don't. I don't forget them, though, and I know that while this website is an invaluable resource, it does not, that I've seen, give much help in how to kick sugar, only why & what to do after you do.

      And let's wag more and bark less with the whiny losers who won't just man up and stop eating crap that makes them feel bad, shall we?
      5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
      Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
      Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
      Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
      ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

      Comment


      • #33
        For the record: I never called anyone a loser.

        If you plug the word "cravings" into the archive search on the MDA site there are five pages of article titles that pop up.

        If people have incorrect or incomplete info I have nothing but sympathy for them. I was once one of those people.

        If people have all the correct info at their fingertips and still don't put it to use, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

        Comment


        • #34
          The following was the front page of MDA on January the 29th. I'm sorry if anything I said this evening was interpreted as harsh or uncaring but if you are going to accuse me of those traits, then you are accusing Mark as well.

          It’s Time to “Get Real”
          Dear readers, it’s time to get real.

          I realize that most of you probably don’t think you need a lecture. You may not need any further motivation. You’re eating good, whole foods, getting daily exercise, and things are going well. For the most part, Grok gazes upon you with twinkling, approving eyes. But what of newcomers? What of the average doughy citizen happily bumbling along in blissful ignorance, unaware that his or her dietary habits and devotion to Conventional Wisdom might actually be counterproductive to those goals implicit in all forms of life, great or small? Survival, contentedness, and prosperity. Surely he deserves a harsh check of reality.

          And even Grok stumbles. Even the most zealous adherents of the Primal Blueprint falter, or even relapse. Maybe they start taking advantage of the office snack stash on a regular basis. A few Twix can’t hurt, right? (Every day? Yeah, they can.) Or maybe they swing by the drive-thru because they put off grocery shopping that week. (Enjoy your microwaved pseudo-meat product flanked by enriched flour patties and plastic cheese.) Hell, even I’ve made that split-second decision – half-out the door, bedecked in workout gear, mind dreading the pain to come – to put off exercise for momentary comfort.

          There’s nothing wrong with the occasional foray into our old ways, especially if the situation necessitates it (starving on a business trip in some far-off town with nothing but fast food joints open, or taking a day off to rest an overworked body). Just be wary of man’s unique ability to justify anything. We’ll eat vegetables chips and swear they’re healthy. We’ll order a light Frappucino and convince ourselves it’s cool (never mind that sugary sweet syrup concoction coating your mouth afterward). Call it self-delusion, cognitive dissonance, or just plain lying to yourself – we all do it, we’re great at it, it’s a coping mechanism, but it’s ultimately harmful and impedes progress in the Primal Blueprint. Because once we justify and rationalize a counterproductive behavior, we’re all the more likely to continue said behavior.

          “Just one more day…”
          “Just this once…”
          “Last time. Promise…”

          Sound familiar? When you’re promising stuff to yourself and convincing yourself that the lies you’re spewing are to be trusted (and falling for it!)… it’s time to GET REAL.

          Consider this, then, a wake-up call. (If you’re diligent and secure, exempt yourself – but even then, you’d be selling yourself short. There’s always room for improvement. Thinking otherwise leads to stagnation.) A wake up call to the beginners, a wake up call to our most loyal readers. Let’s even consider it a wake up call to me, Mark, to get and stay serious about eating right and working out correctly. Following the direction of our evolutionary genetics is a beautifully simple endeavor, but it takes diligence and dedication nonetheless.

          Are you prepared to re-up on the Primal Blueprint? If so, these should help you maintain composure and stay the course.

          Get Real Meat

          Eat real, actual meat. You want a slab of beef untouched by preservatives, by antibiotics, by hormones, and by soy feed. You want a whole roasted chicken so you can crack open the bones and suck the marrow. Eat clean, wild fish and pick out the rib bones. Most importantly, don’t try to fool yourself into thinking that greasy little Slim Jim you picked up at the gas station on the way home from work that oozes slimy nitrites with every bite is real meat. Nor are, for that matter, the treated cold cuts, the bargain bin bacon that miraculously survives for months in your fridge, and that pepperoni you pick off your spouse’s pizza. Get real meat, folks.

          Get Real Vegetables

          Don’t eat corn (on the cob, popped, or otherwise prepared – it’s actually a grain!), potatoes (although sweet potatoes and yams are decent in moderation), vegetable tempura (don’t let that flaky, crispy batter fool you), or veggie chips (the chubby vegetarian’s best friend). And President Reagan may have once proclaimed it a vegetable, but ketchup is definitely not a good choice – it’s loaded with so much corn syrup, sodium, and other pseudo-foods that the tomato can scarcely be detected. Instead, load up on the stuff that you know to be good. Broccoli, greens of all kinds, cauliflower (mash it up for a superior potato substitute), carrots (hold the cake), peppers, tomatoes (real ones), squash, and eggplant (among numerous others) work quite well.

          Get Real Fruit

          And get realistic amounts of it. Fruit was a luxury for Grok, a seasonal delicacy. He wasn’t slurping sherbet-based smoothies every morning, nor was he munching on apples engineered for maximum sugar content. When you eat fruit try to stick to organic. Rather than drink juice or smoothies (albeit, a better choice), try to eat whole fruits. They’ll fill you up faster. Also go easy on the dried fruit; it’s great in a pinch and on hikes (mixed with nuts), but you’ll fill up on sugar before you notice it because it’s so concentrated. As always, berries are best.

          Get Real Nuts

          Lose the peanuts, the candy-coated almonds, the caramel-fudge-encrusted macadamia nuts, those clusters of candy and nuts masquerading as healthy snacks (they may have exotic spices like anise and cayenne, but they’re still covered in a fine sheen of syrup). Eat real nuts and seeds instead: almonds, walnuts, pecans, pumpkin, sunflower, hemp. And please – do not eat those dried crispy soybeans.

          Get Real Fat

          Though that header could be easily misconstrued, what I mean is that you need to get real sources of good fat in your diet. Avoid the processed, hydrogenated (partially or totally), trans garbage. You should be eating real animal fat (lard, tallow), olive oil and fats from avocados, eggs, nuts, seeds, and good cuts of meat (eat that crispy chicken skin!). If you’ve bought into the widespread ridiculous fear of fat in favor of artificial vegetable oils, margarines, and other disgusting lab creations, you need to get real.

          Get Real About Grains

          CW likes to tout grains as “the staff of life” – the foundation for the human diet. Deep down, you know better. You know that the best alternative to grains is eating real food our bodies were designed to eat. Meat, nuts, seeds, vegetables, fruits, and fats are highly superior to grains, and they don’t require loads of processing, heating, pressing, fermenting, soaking, or any other tampering just to be digestible. Get real about the Primal Blueprint, stay off the grains for a few months, and you’ll forget all about your former masters.

          Get Real Workouts

          The success and effectiveness of your workout depends on the enthusiasm with which it’s assailed. Don’t half ass your sprint day at 60% intensity when you know you need to be going 100%. Don’t show up at the gym when you’re supposed to max your squat if you’re not serious about it. Use these days for rest, play or some low level aerobic activity (think long walks/hikes or an easy bike ride) instead and you’ll still be perfectly Primal. Then, when you’re ready, regroup and give it your all. Otherwise, malaise or even injury can easily set in. Get real about what you’re up for, then do it! Oh, and if you’re counting your walk out to your mailbox and back as your workout of the day you seriously need to get real.

          Get Real About Your Goals

          First of all, get some real goals. Get out a piece of paper (or blog, or Word doc, whatever) and figure out what you’re working toward. Be honest with yourself, and don’t expect the impossible. I am a strong believer in one’s ability to control their gene expression, reprogram their body, and become a healthier individual, but you aren’t going to sprout a few more inches no matter how many reps you do or vegetables you eat.

          That said, never sell yourself short. Push yourself to the limit, and don’t use common excuses – “most of my family is slightly overweight” or “my dad never was really that muscular” or “I’m too old to start over” – to avoid making changes in your life. Your ability to seize control of your life, your body, and your health is real. You just have to do it. Ewald (Otto’s identical twin) did.

          I hope all of this wasn’t too harsh. Chalk it up to a little tough love follow-up to yesterday’s “Excuses” post. I think it’s important to have a call to action every now and then. And it’s not like I told you something you didn’t know. You know these are the keys to living a long, healthy life. You know eating the right food and getting daily exercise will pay dividends – today, tomorrow, and in thirty years. Don’t relegate yourself to a future of walkers, brittle bones, sagging guts (and spirits), and doctor visits, all because it was easier to delude yourself and take the easy route. Instead, get real about your abilities, about your goals, about your lifestyle, and about your body.
          Good luck!
          Last edited by Paleobird; 02-07-2011, 11:34 PM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Paleobird, you're awesome.

            I've said many times most things worth doing are simple, but not always easy. It may not be easy to walk away from the sugar cravings, but it is pretty simple. DO. NOT. EAT. THAT. Eat better things. Educate yourself on better choices, and make better choices. It won't be easy. It's going to take willpower. But it's simple.

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            • #36
              Thank you, Yaish. I appreciate knowing that there is someone around here who is not offended by reality.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                Thank you, Yaish. I appreciate knowing that there is someone around here who is not offended by reality.
                Haha you're crazy man. You apologize if you came off as harsh or uncaring and then (in a roundabout way) accuse the people you just apologized to of being "offended by reality". You're doing a great job of creating an "us vs. them" vibe in this thread. I just don't get it. I mean, you knew you were stirring the pot with your first post because you expected to get flamed (although compared to every other board I've been a part of, the flaming on MDA is about as vicious as a kitten). But if you knew you'd get flamed, why not change the content or approach of your original post? Why choose a course of action that will result in something bad?

                Also, from Mark's article you posted...

                "There’s nothing wrong with the occasional foray into our old ways..."

                The posts in response to the "binge" threads seem to resonate with the spirit of Mark's words. I can't recall anyone saying something like "Hey, you ate 3 dozen cookies. Good! Do it again tomorrow!" It's most always something like "Hey man, it happens. Dust yourself off and get back on the horse asap. Just don't make a habit of it. You'll do better with time. Cheers" But perhaps there's a fine line between supportive and coddling.
                Last edited by Roach; 02-08-2011, 12:36 AM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Roach View Post
                  Haha you're crazy man. You apologize if you came off as harsh or uncaring and then (in a roundabout way) accuse the people you just apologized to of being "offended by reality". You're doing a great job of creating an "us vs. them" vibe in this thread. I just don't get it. I mean, you knew you were stirring the pot with your first post because you expected to get flamed (although compared to every other board I've been a part of, the flaming on MDA is about as vicious as a kitten). But if you knew you'd get flamed, why not change the content or approach of your original post? Why choose a course of action that will result in something bad?
                  I don't think anything bad has resulted. Speaking one's mind openly may stir the pot a bit but that just makes for a better stew. If we all had exactly the same opinion on everything, what would be the point in having a discussion?

                  BTW the ducking to avoid getting flamed comment was a joke. This is a very civil forum. One of the many things I like about it.
                  Last edited by Paleobird; 02-08-2011, 12:49 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Roach View Post
                    "Theres nothing wrong with the occasional foray into our old ways..."

                    But perhaps there's a fine line between supportive and coddling.
                    You're absolutely right. There is a fine line between supportive and coddling. It has to do with the key word in the first line there : OCCASIONAL. I never was talking this evening about occasional forays, I was talking about people who do it all the freaking time. And every time their friends say, "Oh yes, we are powerless slaves to the addiction of sugar. It's not your fault. Let me tell you about the time I binged out on cake."

                    To quote Mark again, "..once we justify and rationalize a counterproductive behavior, were all the more likely to continue said behavior."

                    I'm saying that sugar addition is being given as a justification/rationalization way too often. It's an easy way to opt out of taking personal responsibility for the fact that your hand put the cake in your mouth.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I agree Grizz. I react nastily to gluten, was ill for years and had umpteen medical tests before finding what was the culprit. Despite me being a sugar addict, I have no trouble whatsoever resisting cake, for example. So now my vice is ice cream lol. But actually I think I am casein intolerant, I know sugar makes me feel grim, and also a lot of the sugary goods I'm tempted by contain small amounts of starch which often is from corn which I react to the same as I do to gluten. Mainstream chocolate brands are all cross contaminated during manufacture.

                      These are the things I am telling myself as I tighten up my food. And I have pledged to myself that if I do slip with sugar, I will make sure it is 100% gluten free. No dashing down to the shop for a Dairy Milk bar. Smidges of gluten here or there are not something I want to play around with. And it is ridiculous to sit here wondering "why am I still not back to my old self" if I am eaten gluten contaminated goods, traces of corn etc, every now and then. If I want to heal fully, I need to kep my food clean. I've been kidding myself I was doing that whilst letting traces creep in so I didn't have to let go of my favourite sugary treats- the wheat starch in the meringue and the pringles lol.

                      100% sugar free would be best too, but although I have each day the goal of not eating sugar, I don't want to focus on "no sugar forever" because that's the background I came from and it just put me into a cycle of cutting it out and then bingeing. It's easier to say no today if I leave open the option one day I could choose to have it if I really want to. Helps me think about whether I *really* want it rather than getting into that awful "me versus cravings" battle mentality, which only exacerbates them anyway, ugh.

                      As for manning up, anyone who knows me will know I tough I am when I set my mind to something. Yet I have battled sugar addiction for about 25 years. The root isn't psychological, it is biochemical. Only finding ways to eat and live differently to change my biochemistry enables me to consistently say no. Acknowledging that has nothing to do with coddling or telling people it's fine to keep eating junk. I am 100% committed to my health and healing (heck I have 4 kids, I don't want to drop dead of a heart attack at 53 like my dad did). At the same time, I am living in the reality of how my body works, denying the physiological effects of sugar on my body and neurochemistry would not help me.
                      Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

                      Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

                      Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

                      "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
                      Harold Whitman

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                        A true friend is the person who tells you what you need to hear not what you want to hear.
                        Agreed.

                        On the addiction angle, some reading I was doing a while back about dopamine also talked about sugar being one of the most addictive substances for those with an addictive predisposition - and that is a genetic thing not a personality trait it's all about chemical pathways and gene expression. The irony is that sugar creates the insulin issues which creates the imbalances with other hormones dopamine and seratonin amongst them so it's a bit chicken and egg (so to speak). That's why I really believe 'cold turkey' is the best road.

                        Behavioural and emotional hangs ups are another thing entirely and for the really unfortunate are additional to genuine biochemical addictions. Go see the Feeling Sexy thread for a great discussion about unblocking emotional/behavioural issues.
                        Seeking the natural way in a modern world ...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          There are many pieces to the cravings puzzle; as this site attests, there is no one-size-fits-all methodology for everyone. Some people eat fruits and vegetables without any repercussions, others can eat only the lowest sugar varieties, etc. That learning curve is steeper for some than others. *While there are whiners in every realm, it is unlikely that people would spend much time on this site who are not working to figure out how to deal with cravings/temptations. Like Griff, who sees a paradoxical good fortune in his gluten allergies, or those with milder cravings for whatever reason, there can be greater challenges for others who are making good efforts. *I spent over half my life very lean, eating with little thought to weight, then lost a lot of muscle mass due to massive blood poisoning; in six month I gained fifty pounds though I was eating no more and even less. I followed CW conscientiously and for twenty years had cravings that only grew worse. I used to be guilty of believing that weightloss was just a matter of making up your mind, but trying to ignore raging craving is not so simple. It is like trying to not drink water or use the toilet when those urges arise.*
                          So, yes, it is stupid to keep repeating behaviors that you know you will regret, but it is hubris to assume everyone can quickly/easily figure out what behaviors are causing the problem.*
                          If you keep tryng seriously, don't give up, you will eventually gather enough information to learn what you must do, however hard it may at first seem to be, so that you too can look at what was once a favorite food and stare it down for the enemy it is to you.*
                          The information on this site is by far the best I've come across, but by no means perfect. All we can do is share and hope that we can have thoughtful, nonjudgmental exchanges.*
                          Griff, in my youth, intelligent, learned people would have said your allergies were all in your head, just "buck up," and you would have believed them despite your suffering. The times do change, but too slowly for many.
                          This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it. Ralph Waldo Emerson

                          Any given day you are surrounded by 10,000 idiots.
                          Lao Tsu, founder of Taoism

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Binger here. I am still working on this and using the MDA to find coping strategies that will help me eat cleanly.

                            Avoiding sugar and grains could be a life or death issue for me and yet that does not always circumvent years of habitually using food as a drug in addition to the biochemistry issues. My binges correspond to my PMS week every month.

                            But when I binge, I admit it in my journal and move on. I do not whine about it or ask Why Me? If I do, Paleobird, a butt kicking will be appreciated. ; ) (OOOH spanking, that could be a good topic for another thread we like)

                            Best Advice: I find that supplementing with Evening Primrose Oil (cla/gla) and L-glutamine helps with PMS issues and cravings. Also adding more fat and more Primal food. I have cut dairy completely & fruits down to a minimum, but some berries and coconut milk have saved me a couple of times. Finally Reading MDA and being active in this community helps with the mental side of things.

                            I'll let you guys know how I do this month.
                            Last edited by Pebbles67; 02-08-2011, 06:07 AM. Reason: added info
                            Primal since 9/24/2010
                            "Our greatest foes, and whom we must chiefly combat, are within." Miguel de Cervantes

                            Created by MyFitnessPal.com - Free Weight Loss Tools
                            MFP username: MDAPebbles67

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Digby View Post
                              Griff, in my youth, intelligent, learned people would have said your allergies were all in your head, just "buck up," and you would have believed them despite your suffering. The times do change, but too slowly for many.
                              Exactly, my mother spent my entire life believing that the bipolar I suffered with was a lack of will power or something to blame for what she considered inexcusable behaviours. I still don't think she truly understands, she certainly thinks weightloss is all about will power. I spent 20 years feeling 'lesser' for not being able to just 'get over it'. I stumbled on the cure quite by chance with Primal eating. For me it is a biochemical problem, take out the insulin spikes and overloads and six months later I had no symptoms. I've since learned why this is the case because insulin highjacks all the hormonal space on the highway, reduce that insulin traffic and any number of other systems come back into balance. And it's amazing how much difference mental clarity makes to your life!

                              That's the tricky bit, convincing those that are struggling that it really is worth it and that they will recover, it just takes time.
                              Seeking the natural way in a modern world ...

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Kelda: There was a doctor in Moscow that had wonderful results water-only fasting hospitalized schizophrenic patients, usually for about ten days, which is yet another testament to the power of what we consume (or don't) on all aspects of health.
                                This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it. Ralph Waldo Emerson

                                Any given day you are surrounded by 10,000 idiots.
                                Lao Tsu, founder of Taoism

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