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  • Another possible convert -- from Weight Watchers

    Just had another person asking about my weight loss. I explained the basics of PB to her. She's super interested!

    I noted that I'm never feeling deprived or hungry. Pointed out that if I can keep up a "diet" while sleepless and busy with a brand new baby, then anybody can, and I can surely do this long-term.

    She has been on Weight Watchers for a long time. She lost 10 pounds but ever since they changed it so fruit and veg are zero points, she hasn't lost any weight (shocker...) She said a lot of folks in their forums are dissatisfied because they feel like they can't just go by their point total anymore.
    "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

  • #2
    I’m glad you can help her out. It sucks to know there’s people out there that need to rely on a point system to just eat you know? But it’s the world we live in.
    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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    • #3
      i used to be on weight watchers. i lost 100 pounds...fast (calculation errors), largely because i was basically eating way too little, and i attribute any success i had to giving up a lot of food that is on the primal no-no list.
      my experience with weight watchers was horrible...i was sick, hungry, a lot of my weight lost was muscle, and all of their "food" is frankenfood. i lost more weight and really tightened up with primal, so now i try to convert anyone that i can. cheers to you if you can get her to switch.
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

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      • #4
        Good for you! I'm a WW convert too. It helped me lose weight prior to getting PG, but after trying it again post-PG, I hated it. I don't have time to count all my points. I was hungry all the time. I know I ate too many carbs, but they get you on the fiber thing. If something has lots of fiber, it tends to have fewer points, so I know I was eating too many grains. And I won't touch frozen meals with a 10-foot pole any more.

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        • #5
          I can't totally knock Weight Watchers because I lost 115 pounds in a year and a half using their system...then a year later I gained 25 pounds due to menopause. I wan't hungry on WW, but I didn't eat as much meat due to the points. I can see where lots of fruit would stall out weight loss under the new system...

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          • #6
            I lost 20 lbs. on WW, and I literally Could. Not. Continue. I chalked my 'failure' up to poor willpower, but after the health probs. that popped up while I lost that 20 lbs. (digestive, skin, hair, low endurance, low energy, anxiety, heart palpitations), I now look back and think I have a fabulous survival instinct. The fiber/grain thing didn't work for me; I'm seriously wheat intolerant. Read Nourishing Traditions, then found Primal blueprint and have felt better and better ever since.

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            • #7
              Considering that most modern fruits are just bags of sugar, I'm wouldn't be surprised if many WW folks start gaining soon...
              Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
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              • #8
                She's already reading the various e-books and signed up for the MDA newsletter. Yay!

                She has high cholesterol, so I told her about some of the success stories I've heard on that front as well.

                Conveniently she doesn't have a lot of weight to lose (just from looking at her, I can't imagine she needs to lose any, really...) but surely this will help on the health front.

                iniQuity, it is sad in a way that they need a point system. I imagine there's some people who like having more specific guidance of being told what to do, and feel like they're keeping "score" in a way that isn't directly related to calories. When that works for them, then good, fine, whatever....

                But if it doesn't work and they're struggling with a weird point-based system instead of "Hmm, this is primal and delicious! EAT" then... yeah, that's especially sad.

                Yeah, Dragonfly, I found that aspect of her conversation especially interesting -- insider info confirming our suspicions that unlimited fruit wouldn't go so well for them.
                "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

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                • #9
                  hi! first post!

                  i'm a newbie to "primal" but have been eating healthfully for the last year or so in an attempt to lose weight. carbs have NEVER been kind to me...i am also a recovering vegetarian...

                  anyway...i did weight watchers...why would fruit make them fat? aren't we (primal-eaters) "allowed" to eat as much fruit as we want? is it something about WW that would make them gain with increased fruit consumption?
                  Our primal family journal.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by happyprimate View Post
                    anyway...i did weight watchers...why would fruit make them fat? aren't we (primal-eaters) "allowed" to eat as much fruit as we want? is it something about WW that would make them gain with increased fruit consumption?
                    I'm reasonably new around here, so maybe one of the more senior members will chime in with more details, but many PB-ers limit fruit consumption because of all the sugar. Yes, it's "natural" sugar, but it's still sugar. For those of us who are trying hard to be free from carb-induced cravings and crashes, eating too much fruit can make it difficult. I do eat fruit, but I eat a piece every day or two instead of 2 or 3 pieces per day as I would have in my old lifestyle. I would suggest experimenting and seeing what works for you. Some folks are fine with a fair amount of fruit. Others get stalled or have increased carb cravings.

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                    • #11
                      Really, I'd say it all depends on what carb level you're shooting for. Let's say my goal is 80 grams a day -- if that were just from fruit, that's a lot of fruit. So to use strawberries as an example (I always use strawberries for some reason), I doubt many people could eat eight whole cups of strawberries in a day.

                      But, most people are getting carbs from other sources, too. If I have a big buff salad and some yogurt, I'm that much closer to my 80 grams. So if I literally allowed myself "unlimited" fruit on top of that -- whether I follow Weight Watchers or PB -- could easily make me go over either my planned carb level or my calorie level.

                      I love it that fruit is OK under PB, but like anything it helps to be a little mindful of what you're doing if you have certain limits you'd like to meet.

                      Also, not all fruits are created equal. Some have lots of fiber and take a good amount of chewing and are generally satisfying as a result -- difficult to overeat. Others, like oranges or grapes, are basically just fruit-shaped containers for sugary juice and it's quite easy to eat a whole lot of calories of those without necessarily realizing it.

                      So, I can see why the idea of fruit being "free" under WW would stall out people's weight loss.

                      P.S.: To respond more specifically to the question of "is it something about WW that would make them gain with increased fruit consumption?", here's my take on it. Let's say I was on WW and losing weight with 22 points a day of food. They change the rules to make fruit free. So all the fruit that would have normally been part of my 22 points is now free. That makes it likely I'll eat some other foods to hit my 22 points... and have some fruit too, since it's free. End result: more calories eaten, stalled weight loss.

                      And welcome to the forum, happyprimate.
                      Last edited by Jenny; 01-25-2011, 01:09 PM.
                      "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jenny View Post
                        P.S.: To respond more specifically to the question of "is it something about WW that would make them gain with increased fruit consumption?", here's my take on it. Let's say I was on WW and losing weight with 22 points a day of food. They change the rules to make fruit free. So all the fruit that would have normally been part of my 22 points is now free. That makes it likely I'll eat some other foods to hit my 22 points... and have some fruit too, since it's free. End result: more calories eaten, stalled weight loss.

                        And welcome to the forum, happyprimate.
                        When I was doing WW, I found that most people didn't lose weight because they didn't count points correctly. They would eat 'a couple of bites of...' and 'Well, I had a piece of...' and none of those points were counted. I lost weight because I didn't count exercise points and wrote down everything. That said, after losing 40 pounds my points were so low, even without exercise, that I was ready to eat my couch. That said, your idea is a good one. If someone is strict on their points but still eats extra points from fruit (even if the points are not counted) they will not lose.

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                        • #13
                          Hooray!! Jenny, tell her to get her butt over here! Many former WWs here (myself included). Have her look at the before/after photos.

                          I think we've got a second-generation convert simmering over here. (Someone I converted is on the verge of converting someone else.) Drip, drip, drip...
                          "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." -- Hippocrates

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                          • #14
                            That's great!

                            I did lose weight on WW, but sloooooowly and I was always hungry, tired and irritable. Plus - and this was the big thing that turned me off from it - for someone who prepares close to all foods at home (and I really do mean "all" - I made our breads, crackers, yogurt, even our condiments), calculating points was pretty much impossible. I would be faint with hunger (hypoglycemic, no surprise there) and end up driving the half-block to the convenience store to buy some pretend food in a package, simply so that I could easily work out the points. All the things I was doing right - the careful at-home preparation of snacks and meals from sustainably, organically raised local foods - were slowly but surely being undermined by a system that is only really functional with edible non-foods that come with "nutrition" labels.

                            IMO, at it's core, that's the main problem with WW, or really any points- or calorie-counting system: real food doesn't come with labels. System failure.

                            My MIL has been doing WW off and on for something like 14 years. It never works, she's always hungry, she's miserable, and she blames herself for not having enough "discipline." All made worse by a SIL with a strong personality who did have success with WW (although we suspect she WW'd herself into an eating disorder) who is now downright evangelical about it being "the only way" and how any other way of eating makes people drop dead of heart attacks.

                            So poor MIL just keeps limping along, hungry, tired and unhappy. And, now that she's starting to figure out some of what we're doing (primal eating), absolutely certain that we're all going to die, like, tomorrow. Even though I'm losing 2-3 pounds a week without really trying, and we all feel great and have better energy than ever.

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                            • #15
                              With fruit, there's also the issue of it popping up your insulin on a regular basis. For some healthy peeps that may not be a problem, but for those of us with insulin resistance (which is becoming a bigger problem), AND people who are also eating regular carbs like bread and pasta, that can truly cause some metabolic disorders to kick in high gear, which will also stop weight loss.

                              We are made to eat fruit, but fruit from WAY back when that was MUCH less sweet. It was also only available a few months a year, at a time when we were stocking up on our fat to get us through the winters when we had less to eat in general, and no real carbs to speak of. So it all needs to be taken into context.

                              That's such a bummer, though, for people who are really trying to eat healthy and right. And WW seems to be trying (in a CW way) to push more "real foods" (we'll forget about that whole whole grains issue...). But since when are fruits equal to vegetables?? I don't even think they should be in the same food group. 'Course I've never been much for fruit anyway, but LOVE me some veggies....
                              sigpic "Boy I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals" - Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

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