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  • #16
    Originally posted by AmyMac703 View Post
    Fine. I'll bite.

    Stop driving a car and using heat/AC in your home and stop using all plastic products. Cook all your food over a fire of wood that you personally cut down. Don't take the bus either, or airplanes, or motorized boats. Everywhere you want to go, you must walk, ride a bike/horse/other animal, paddle, or swim.

    THEN you can bitch about oil and gas exploration. But as long as the demand for petroleum products stays high, people are going to have to either develop new methods of tapping into potential reservoirs, whether that means drilling at lower depths or using technology that can extract stuff from low porosity rocks. And you don't like either of those, it seems.

    @Adventure8410: I've done a couple hikes there, but haven't actually climbed any of the trad routes yet. It's too cold to think about doing that right now, lol, I'm in snowboarding mode.
    +1
    ad astra per aspera

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    • #17
      I'm just a guy who read a couple of articles, and heard a few radio news segments, and saw some bits about it on the teevee, and Fracking sounds like dogshit to me.

      And yes I base the entirety of my opinion on incomplete information sets, that and the track record of energy industries world wide, and am perfectly happy being a hypocrite about it as I use my plastic and silicon computer running on nuclear powered electricity. Kiss my ass.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Minxxa View Post
        The only reason I had to see this is because I'm rewatching Battlestar Galactica, the series, from the beginning.
        hahaha. we finished the series last december. i'm here for the same reason.
        my primal journal:
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

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        • #19
          I don't mean this thread to be some kind of arguing back and forth over who is a hypocrite and who isn't, i mean it to spread this stuff around.

          Yeah it might be incomplete information sources because the "authorities" are being very dodgy about it. The same way we here at MDA expose the health/food industry for things based on faulty science, this seems to me to be the exact same thing. If the EPA isn't standing up for us we have to get their attention to the issue.

          I am sure you have heard the exact same statements you are making to me from people you have tried to explain the primal lifestyle to. "Oh it's just one incomplete source" or "Well the FDA says its fine so whats the problem?". Irresponsible governing bodies not doing their job and helping those with the biggest pocketbook. You may not know every study and piece of data by heart, you may come off as enthusiastic and dogmatic, but it doesn't make the issue any less relevant because of it. Please don't shoot the messenger



          Edit: As far as the Battlestar Galactic reference, i find this extremely ironic given the story line. Machines destroying humanity etc lol.

          FRACKING FRACKERS FRACKING UP MY LAND!! haha.
          Last edited by Ardent; 01-18-2011, 07:48 PM.

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          • #20
            I used to frac in the oil patch, so I'm really getting a kick out of these replies.

            (fark is awesome)

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            • #21
              his water is permanently rendered poisonous and they are using trillions upon trillions of gallons of water to do this! The "Produced Water" as they call it is stored in cheap tanks or just a giant pit in the ground for the water to seep back into the environment through the soil or evaporation into rain or leakage from the tanks.
              You do realize that the ground isn't just a big sponge right? you can't just put water in the ground and then it magically seeps everywhere, otherwise we wouldn't need to drill for oil and gas. We'd just mop it up.

              As far as I understand it in the past all the horrible evil icky water was put back into the ground at a depth of several thousand feet far below the water table where there was no oil or gas or water. Now it is saved and treated for reuse. It's called recycling!

              I'll never wrap my head around why people think that oil and gas companies exist to be evil and do harm. That's a very poor business model. It's like saying I want to be an Obstetrician so I can kill babies! Oil and gas companies need for their work to go well so they can continue drilling because THEY NEED PERMISSION FROM LAND OWNERS TO DO SO! (oil and mineral rights owners actually, which is why you see so many angry land owners. No mineral rights means they don't get a big oil company check means all of a sudden they hate the oil industry). No it isn't a perfect industry, but what industry really is?
              Have there been some tragic mistakes? yes. However you're talking about an industry that is voluntarily heavily regulated. The last thing they need is a bunch of pencil pushers and tight ties coming in and laying down more rules about something they don't understand in turn making it impossible to produce ANY energy for this country which would result in THOUSANDS of jobs lost across this country. Then we'll just import our oil from the third world where there are fewer environmental regulations. We can go about our daily lives driving our cars and heating our homes happy in the thought that they no longer drill in America and isn't our country so great and clean while we spend $5/gallon and lay waste to South America.
              Last edited by angorarabbit; 01-19-2011, 05:56 AM.

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              • #22
                They tried to propose hydrofracking here in New York but blatantly avoided doing the appropriate EPA evaluation (or something analogous to that, don't remember), so they got shut down. They're still trying to push it through, though.

                That being said, mountaintop removal for coal is bad too.

                This isn't an environmental concern website; it's a nutrition and athletic site. It's fine to discuss it here in the forum but has no place on the main page.
                carl's cave

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by angorarabbit View Post
                  ....
                  It would be fine if they actually followed rules designed to protect the environment. They dont.

                  They are EXEMPT from the Clean Water Act. They are a business in it to make money as are most doctors, they don't work for free but doctors cant cut every conceivable corner because they are under the watchful eye of governing bodies. The governing bodies for oil&gas aren't paying attention.
                  Yes they pay people money for their mineral rights, but they also make them swear to secrecy as part of the agreement kind of like an NDA for beta testing. Except its their land and when toxic waste fills up their underground water wells and gas starts flying out of the waterlines on fire they have no one to complain to and the companies either handle it internally by supplying them with water tanks or they just say there is no problem and walk away.

                  They aren't just leaving it in tanks or putting it deep underground, they are also spraying the junk directly into fields and streams or in giant pits on the top of the ground for this junk to be evaporated and absorbed into the areas around it.

                  There is plenty of empirical evidence that is being ignored.

                  We also need food, clean air and water not just energy. If the practices of energy companies make land unusable for agriculture/wildlife how will you feel about that?

                  No this isn't some crazy environmental website, it's a primal lifestyle blog with a large and intelligent following. I post this on here because i figure if Primal people heard that the purity of their alternative food chain suppliers is being threatened as these operations expand across the globe in rural areas they might be a little concerned. If the very source of all you eat breathe and drink is contaminated how can you ever hope to be clean and primal? Thats why this scares me and im posting this.

                  I have thousands of gas wells a 45 minute drive upriver from where i live. How do i know my water and food isn't contaminated from runoff?Arkansas has a lot of farmland and supply a huge portion of rice in america. To me this is very scary stuff.
                  Last edited by Ardent; 01-19-2011, 12:40 PM.

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                  • #24
                    I am disappointed at the lack of Battlestar Galactica in this thread.

                    There we go. Big frackin' improvement.
                    The Primal Holla! Eating fat. Getting lean. Being awesome.

                    You were sick, but now you're well, and there's work to do. - Kilgore Trout

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                    • #25
                      So if the threat is as real as people are reporting it to be how can we be sure our food and water supplies are safe? Especially in the areas where they do the most fracking. Do we send off our food and water to be tested to private agencies for any remnants of the fracking fluid?

                      What about wild game? Many of the paths game birds and deer wander across are filled with these gas operations.

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                      • #26
                        This probably isn't relevant, but... I used to sit on the board of a local Community Garden and wrote most of the articles in their quarterly newsletter. I decided to write a story on Monsanto, Syngenta, Bayer Crop Sciences and Dow Chemicals. I had to let the president of the CG read the articles to approve them prior to publishing. When he read this one it ended up being heavily redacted. He was afraid that somehow, in some way, this newsletter would get to someone with ties to these companies.

                        If you don't know what these companies do, let me explain. Monsanto and Syngenta produce nearly 90% of the world's seeds (that was back in 2003). It has been Monsanto's mission to eradicate and replace all open-pollinated seed varieties with their own, engineered hybrids that in most cases are difficult to grow from seed or won't germinate at all. Since starting their aggressive seed hybridization program, 45% of heirloom, open-pollinated seed varieties have been lost. Did you know that one of the big supporters of the Svalbard Global Seed Bank in Norway was Monsanto? Just what kind of seeds do you think are in that seed bank?

                        Monsanto is the owner of the Terminator Seed patent. What is a terminator seed? It grows for one season, and one season only. Seed saved from a terminator seed plant will not germinate. It makes growers dependent on the seed producer for their annual seed supplies. Furthermore, many of the crop seeds are now engineered to grow only with large applications of chemical fertilizers. This ties in with what Ardent is getting at. The dumping of large amounts of toxic chemicals into already stressed soils. Where some of these seeds have been grown the soil is essentially dead from the overuse of chemical fertilizers. Luckily, many countries have outlawed Terminator Seeds. But Monsanto is busy trying to get these bans overturned.

                        How many of you have heard of Round-up Ready Soybeans? Conventional farms tend to use large amounts of chemical fertilizers and herbicides to control weeds. If what's growing in the field is not what was intentionally seeded, spray it. Unfortunately, many of the weed killers also kill broad-leaf crops. A nice collaborative effort resulted in this Soybean that nearly 80% of US soybean farmers are using. They can now spray as much Round-Up as they want on their soybean crops and it won't kill the soybean plant along with the weeds. Can you say 'carcinogen'? The chemicals used in Round-Up have a long half-life. They end up in the food chain and saturate the soil. Only the hardiest of weeds are able to stand up to this treatment.

                        From the research I did compiling the article I wrote, the information I found was unbelievable. You couldn't make a movie out of this stuff. Do your own research. Find out what's been put in the soil close to where you live... are there farms nearby? What do they grow? If growing your own vegetables is part of the primal lifestyle then you should be very concerned about what's in your soil and water, and where your seeds come from. If you want to start somewhere and learn a bit more, watch The World According to Monsanto. It'll make you cry.
                        You donít stop riding because youíre getting old, you get old because you stop riding.

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                        • #27
                          Your post reminds me of the book "The Windup Girl". Sad stuff

                          Watching that movie now on google.

                          Why is it that only until all this damage is done, only until people are dying and the environment directly adjacent to chemical facilities is ruined that it gets the attention of those with the power to stop these practices. There seems to be a recurring pattern, these companies pick on small isolated towns/rural areas to put these operations in and pollute the environment. They get away with this stuff too much and there needs to be a change.

                          Another parallel from this film i found. Getting industry...any industry to grow as fast as possible. How do they get it to grow fast? They regulate it as little as possible which allows them to get away with all manner of things. So apparently government values economic prowess more than the health and safety of the population.
                          Last edited by Ardent; 01-19-2011, 09:44 PM.

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