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  • #16
    Very interesting discussion. Is there any research to suggest that there are gender differences in how people's bodies react to this way of eating?

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    • #17
      dropping nuts and dairy made a difference for me and I only need to lose a few kgs -- i know we are all different but this helped me

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      • #18
        Why are you eating six times a day?

        Your day:

        B: 2 eggs, 1/4 cup summer squash, 1 cup kale, 1 roma tomato, 2 turkey sausage links
        S: almonds/cashews organic turkey stick
        L: Cobb Salad w/ balsamic dressing on side
        S: Prob. yogurt w/ protein powder
        D: 10 oz steak, house salad w/ italian dressing on side, little bit of coleslaw
        S: Blueberries, may have eaten some yogurt with it
        Cauliflower dipped into reg. cream cheese

        Sometimes I'll throw protein powder into greek yogurt (its non fat though) for a snack, or eat some cheese.
        What I eat changes everyday; sometimes I think i have more fat than other times. I graze around the house: after lunch out I'll still be hungry so i might pick at some almonds, steak in the fridge, veggies and salsa, yogurt, etc.
        My day:
        B: Coffee w/ coconut milk
        L: Cobb Salad w/ balsamic dressing
        D: 16 oz steak, artichoke
        That is truly my day today, I did actually have a cobb salad and a steak. I haven't gotten around to the artichoke yet. Not hungry. Might eat it tomorrow. Have you ever tried skipping all those snacks?
        Last edited by aktres; 01-24-2011, 09:23 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
          It is important not to eat too few calories or your metabolism will down-regulate and make it harder, if not impossible to drop the body fat. A 500 calorie deficit is commonly suggested, but you may need a smaller one.
          Do you have any suggestions for a "GOOD" guideline to follow as far as calculating what calorie level we should be at (i.e. maint cals <minus> deficit). I have found some hugely varying suggestions for what my maintenance cals should be. On the sites that calculate your calorie level for you (including the deficit) they always always always simply say 1200, because I'm barely 5' tall.

          THANKS!

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Elspeth View Post
            Do you have any suggestions for a "GOOD" guideline to follow as far as calculating what calorie level we should be at (i.e. maint cals <minus> deficit). I have found some hugely varying suggestions for what my maintenance cals should be. On the sites that calculate your calorie level for you (including the deficit) they always always always simply say 1200, because I'm barely 5' tall.

            THANKS!
            I wish I did! There are women here much smaller than me who can eat almost twice as much...so many factors affect metabolism...

            What I did was to track my foods the first week of eating Primal using FitDay. I noticed I was eating between 1300-1700 calories. I hadn't been lifting consistently for awhile, so I knew I would be burning more calories as I grew muscle and my metabolic rate went up. I also knew that I would get more active as I got more fit, so I didn't want to drop my calories too much. I looked at a couple of the equations here and 1500 just felt like a good number for me--eating vlc has make it much easier to stay at or below 1500 most days. I'm still losing, so it seems to be a good place for me--it's really a matter of trial & error...
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            • #21
              Thank you, Dragonfly! I've been tracking my food and seem to be around 1300-1400 cals... I'm having issues getting my carbs below 50 though. I'm trying to get my veg, but apparently I'm picking higher carb ones (squash, tomato, etc.)... not a fan of salads in the winter months, my body craves warm foods.

              I ran my numbers through http://www.cordianet.com/calculator.htm and got the following (which seems WAAY low):
              Caloric Need:
              • Estimated Base BMR: 1256 Calories.
              • Estimated TDEE: 1507 Calories.
              • Estimated Daily Caloric Need For Weight Loss: 1007 Calories.

              Found another site using Harris Benedict that said my TDEE is 1745... so that would be 1245 for weight loss. (no idea what my body fat % is at this point)

              I'm struggling trying to get the weight loss started right now.

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              • #22
                Elspeth~
                It may be easier to focus on one factor at a time. For exampl, getting your carbs down below 50 and allowing your body to adjust to ketosis, will by itself, help you to eat in balance with your body's needs in the long term (unless you have a metabolic disorder...) Once you have become keto-adapted, you may not need to track calories--many folks find that their hunger diminishes--especially at ~ 20 net carbs.

                It can take time. After 1 month of vlc, I feel like my body is still adapting. I have more energy, but occasionally I feel like my body has too much energy running through it at night, which can affect my sleep. Given that my whole metabolism is shifting, I'm not surprised!
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                • #23
                  Thank you yet again! Could you maybe recommend some veg that you typically eat to stay VLC? I had a 1/2 banana this morning, which I know is higher in carb... but my stumblings seem to be with lunch and dinner (parsnips, squash, tomato, etc.). I do like broccoli and cauliflower, but I can only eat so much... I'm one that craves variety in my diet.

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                  • #24
                    I eat spinach, chard, kaiso (seaweed salad), cabbage, celery, brocolli, dill pickles (w/burgers)...
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                    • #25
                      Thank you yet again! I'm sorry I'm being a "needy" noob. =)

                      I think I've been trying to focus too much on the fresh produce section... which is why I keep coming home with parsnips and carrots and winter squash. I need to stock up on some frozen veg and actually REMEMBER what's in the freezer to use it!

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                      • #26
                        Brussel sprouts are another good veggie as well. Steamed and eaten with butter or roasted with bacon fat, butter and a bit of fresh parma, they're great!
                        Georgette

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
                          Ladies~
                          If you want to drop body fat, you need a calorie deficit. I believe this is true, unless you have a serious metabolic disorder.

                          How you get there may vary. You could:

                          • Eat lots of non-starchy veggies to fill you up and help keep a calorie deficit.
                          • Do Intermittent Fasting to keep an overall calorie deficit.
                          • Eat low carb or very low carb which will likely reduce your appetite and help you maintain a calorie deficit.
                          • Track your calories with FitDay and make sure you eat enough to maintain a calorie deficit.
                          • Build up your muscle mass through strength training to boost your metabolism and help you to maintain a calorie deficit.
                          Whether your first statement is true or not, the only way to succeed with an attempt at balancing calories in with calories out is to avoid starving while doing it. If you just reduce calories, that's not sustainable. If you exercise more, you work up a bigger appetite and eventually starve, not sustainable. For many, many of us (and Taubes' latest book gives the science behind why), we will not achieve a calorie deficit unless we go very low carb, b/c carbs drive appetite, and we'll stay starving. Make each and every one of those calories nutrient-dense (the very opposite of high carb foods), and your appetite naturally lowers.

                          It's sustainable, b/c it's the way our ancestors ate for millions of years.

                          OTOH, I think there is a gender difference. I believe that something more than insulin drives weight gain, and that's off-balance gut flora. My observation has been that some people are naturally not at all drawn to lots of carbs, even if they're available, and others will binge if they're available. One possibility is that it's related to genetic heritage - that those whose ancestors ate moderate amounts of carbs can handle moderate amounts w/o obsession, and that those whose ancestors ate few or no carbs (other than some non-starchy veggies) can't. I think that's likely true, but yet to be studied, and has more to do with insulin than gut.

                          Another possibility is that women are more prone to the gut-flora-imbalance-creating conditions that drive carb obsession in many of us: frequent antibiotics (UTIs, mastistis, infections that are much more common in women), low-fat/high-whole-grain diet (b/c we're dieters and much more into a healthy diet overall, in general), following doctors' orders, ...

                          There's just much more to it than calories in, calories out, and if you ignore the insulin & gut flora issues that drive carbohydrate obsession, you'll eventually fail. If you heed and persevere in fighting the issues that cause them, you can create an appetite that naturally eats the amount and kind of food it needs to thrive.

                          (Clearly I'm trying to avoid cleaning the mess that surrounds me from the Super Bowl party my children threw last night ... need to quit rambling...)
                          5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                          Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                          Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                          Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                          ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

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                          • #28
                            And since I have a serious metabolic disorder... I can't do any of those things.

                            VLC/VL Calorie/IF are all not allowed for me and in fact inhibits weight loss even more. However PB does aid in healing the hormonal levels, so I'm hoping eventually it'll kick in!

                            Mamagrok... also hormones are seriously an issue with metabolic disorders. Estrogen and progesterone imbalances as well as others. Taubes describes an experiment where they took the ovaries out of rats. The rats started eating voraciously and then got fat. So they did the same experiment, but gave the rats only the same amount of food they ate BEFORE the operation so they couldn't overeat. They still got just as fat, but were a lot less active. So the fat gain was due to the removal of the sex hormones from their bodies... and they were less active when fed the smaller amount because after having their ovaries removed they had to conserve energy -- either by eating more so they could move around, or moving around less so they could eat less. Interestingly, the same experiment where the rats were given estrogen shots after the removal of the ovaries produced rats that did not gain weight and moved around like normal. So the weight gain was NOT due to overeating, or lack of activity. It was due to lack of the correct hormones, and when given the correct hormones they were lean and active even without the ovaries. Very interesting study, actually!
                            sigpic "Boy I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals" - Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

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                            • #29
                              I was agape reading that whole chapter - he blew my mind the first time I heard him say that sedentariness & obesity correlate, but are not causal, several years ago. That chapter had the evidence behind it and sealed the deal for me, which I had already come to believe after seeing my own energy levels increase the very moment I changed my diet, long before I lost a single pound or exercised a single minute. I *wanted* to move; I *preferred* moving to sitting once the switch was made, just the opposite of what it was before the dietary change.
                              5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                              Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                              Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                              Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                              ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by MamaGrok View Post



                                Another possibility is that women are more prone to the gut-flora-imbalance-creating conditions that drive carb obsession in many of us: frequent antibiotics (UTIs, mastistis, infections that are much more common in women), low-fat/high-whole-grain diet (b/c we're dieters and much more into a healthy diet overall, in general), following doctors' orders, ...

                                There's just much more to it than calories in, calories out, and if you ignore the insulin & gut flora issues that drive carbohydrate obsession, you'll eventually fail. If you heed and persevere in fighting the issues that cause them, you can create an appetite that naturally eats the amount and kind of food it needs to thrive.
                                Oooh... I likes what you are saying. Probably just BC I will do anything to avoid cutting calories. I'm VLC & not really seeing any results, though honestly not tracking calories. I have had several rounds of antibiotics due to recurring UTIs. Right now I eat raw sauerkraut daily, but I'm wondering if that is enough.
                                Notebook of a Nutrition Nerd

                                ‘THE FOOD YOU EAT CAN BE THE SAFEST AND MOST POWERFUL FORM OF MEDICINE OR THE SLOWEST RELEASING POISON' - Dr Ann Wigmore.

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