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  • PB and breast feeding?

    Obviously Ms. Grok breast fed her kids, so it would seem that the PB is compatible with breast feeding. I'm thinking of going lower-carb. Today was a really high-carb day at around 250-300 carbohydrates (the culprits were arborio rice, a full bar of dark chocolate, and half a cantaloupe), but normally I'm closer to the upper 100s, maybe 180ish. Does anyone have experience with nursing and going down to 50-100? I'm sure I can do it, I just want to make sure that I won't be a grumpy mess, and that I'll have the energy to take care of my kiddoes (I have two small kids and a 4 month old). Any tips?
    my primal journal:
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

  • #2
    I'm not an expert on breastfed babies, although I play one on TV.

    It seems to me the paleo/PB diet is the best suited for a healthful outcome for your kids, mainly due to increased amount of omega-3 vs. omega-6 fats.

    I always recommend taking plenty of fish oil to women who are pregnant and/or breast feeding. Your kid's brains will thank you later.

    I haven't answered your questions really, maybe someone else can get closer for you. Congrats on being a smart mom!!

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    • #3
      I am nursing too, and personally, my energy level suffered a bit when I tried to stay around 75g. 'Baby brain' fogginess came back for me at those levels (though not as bad as it was before I went primal!) so I usually stay in the 100-150g range and that's working really well for me.

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      • #4
        My wife eats about 100g a day and baby is doing great.

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        • #5
          I stayed higher carb (fruit and starchy veggies) when I was nursing and I made sure to eat plenty of fat.

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          • #6
            I'm nursing and eat under 75 carbs most days. This isn't by design, it's just the diet that has evolved since becoming primal last year. I feel better on days that I eat on the lower end, but I do eat a lot of fat to make up for it. I've been eating over 2000 calories/day (though I'm trying to cut just a wee bit now). I eat coffee with a lot of cream for breakfast, a huge salad for lunch, and meat and veggies for dinner. If I snack, it's on almonds, celery w/ almond butter or something similar. The key to feeling good while nursing has been for me to drink something like a gallon of water each day. I feel awful when I don't get enough water and I notice it the next day when I pump at work. I've done no outside research on macronutrients and nursing; I just eat as cleanly as possible.

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            • #7
              Evolution wise it would make sense that the primal diet should work also while breast feeding.
              You just have to make double sure you actually get all your nutrients since the baby could be alot more sensitive than you are to any deficienses.

              Changing diet WHILE breast feeding could be another matter though. We know the body can take some time to adjust and I atleast have no idea if or how that might effect things.

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              • #8
                I had supply issues with milk last time (non-PB life, back then) so I'm really wondering how it'll go this time... particularly since I have some weight to lose, which is always tricky when breastfeeding. I'll be watching this thread with interest!
                "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Saoirse View Post
                  Does anyone have experience with nursing and going down to 50-100? I'm sure I can do it, I just want to make sure that I won't be a grumpy mess, and that I'll have the energy to take care of my kiddoes (I have two small kids and a 4 month old). Any tips?
                  It's totally possible. If you feel like crap from the low carb flu there are two options:

                  up your carbs enough to keep you out of ketosis. the down side is that you won't ketoadapt.
                  stick out the low carb flu and ketoadapt. the downside is you may feel like crap for 2 days-8 weeks....or you might now.

                  In terms of energy, be sure you're getting enough potassium from nonstarchy veggies (see my links below) and be sure you're supplementing D to achieve optimal levels of circulating 25(OH)D
                  best,
                  Katherine



                  iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jenny View Post
                    I had supply issues with milk last time (non-PB life, back then)
                    If PCOS was a factor, low carb will likely be helpful.

                    If it was something else, it won't matter either way (ie insufficient glandular tissue, poor latch, tongue tie, high palate, insuffient feeding frequency in the early weeks and/or poor milk transfer for any of those reasons).



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                    • #11
                      Yeah, I'm sure PCOS was a factor, and I've read a lot about those other factors. I have also heard that for some women their milk level varies dramatically from baby to baby -- probably due to the latter two reasons you list.

                      So I figure I'm going to focus on breastfeeding even more often at the beginning than I did originally, and pumping ASAP to supplement that; supposedly that first month makes a big difference in setting your milk level.

                      That's difficult to contemplate since I am really not a fan of breastfeeding (except for my baby's benefit which trumps my personal preference!) but at least this time I know what I'm in for so there's less dread.
                      Last edited by Jenny; 09-12-2010, 05:38 PM. Reason: explaininating
                      "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Jenny View Post
                        That's difficult to contemplate since I am really not a fan of breastfeeding .
                        Me neither - even though I nursed them for 5 and 4 years respectively. And I only managed that by talking myself into it each and every freaking day. My dislike of nursing completely suprised me. Completely and totally took me off guard.

                        Anyhoo, my .02 on supply stuff.

                        Nurse the baby early and often (as you know) to optimize supply. Personally, with a baby who latches well (use Jack Newman's asymmetrical latch info) and transfers milk well, I am not a fan of pumping...it's often so exhausting for a mom who is already maxed out. Let the baby be your pump. Nurse, nurse and nurse again. If baby needs supplementation, give the supplement at the breast with a lactaid and use domperidone to boost supply. (per Newman's protocol). This plan is infinitely easier (esp with a toddler running around), than trying to pump after each feeding and in my (extensive) experience, more effective as well.

                        Staying low carb (and afterthe birth) now will help your insulin sensitivity return which will set in motion a whole cascade of hormonal events that may allow for a reduction of pcos markers and increase your supply this go around.

                        Be sure you're maintaining 25(OH)D levels at 65 ng/mL per LabCorp or ZRT (Quests test is problematic). I know I keep going on an on about it but it really does affect hormones in significant ways.

                        The first two days make a huge impact in your supply by, the first five days, the first week, the first two weeks. By a month out, it's very very difficult to change or improve supply. The early days matter so much.

                        Best,
                        Katherine
                        Last edited by cillakat; 09-12-2010, 07:55 PM.



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                        • #13
                          Thanks as always cillakat! Can't write much now -- typing on phone -- but I should note I have to get used to pumping ASAP anyway, and get baby to accept both breast and bottle. primary breadwinner and so I have to pump @ office after my short maternity leave. prob. the major reason I had supply drama last time too. At least I have a private office and I can pump while I work every couple hours.

                          I'll make it work same as last time, just start various supps like Dom sooner now that I know em.

                          Hoping the diet will help otherwise as you said w. hormonal balance. We'll see!
                          "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

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                          • #14
                            Katherine- all good to know. I know my D levels are low as I was tested during pregnancy (!29!). I supplement sporadically, but usually forget. When I remember it's around 8,000 IU of d3. I'm also supplementing the babe independently with around 800-1200 IU/day when i remember. Sorry for the newb question, but what is "ketoadapt?" I'm not coming from a really high-carb diet (probably around 180g/day, though some days are much heavier), this is more of a gentle transition into lower-carb. Today I actually counted my carbs, and came out with 108g (72 g protein, 159 g fat). That's including the rice that I ate (which I normally don't).

                            Jenny- I've always had latch problems at first. I nursed my first for almost 4 years, #2 to almost 3 years (they were tandem nursed until #2 was almost 1), and am now nursing #3. Yet, each time I had a baby, the latch hurt like h***! This last time was the worst, because i was dealing with engorgement as well (and developed mastitis). Anyway, my babies continued to grow well so I grinned and beared it through that first month(just my personal experience- your issues are different so they require a different approach). It was sooo much easier after the 1st month!!! I never really liked nursing, but tolerated it. The first month DOES make quite a difference, as does your level of confidence. If you have a doc who pretends to be breastfeeding-friendly, but jumps at supplementing, I would consider switching (or at least getting a second opinion). If you can find a doc who is successful at helping women w/PCOS breastfeed, this would make a huge difference- though a lactation consultant is much more likely to be able to help you. Text is hard to interpret, so please understand that I'm rooting for you!!
                            Last edited by Saoirse; 09-12-2010, 11:40 PM.
                            my primal journal:
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jenny View Post
                              Thanks as always cillakat! Can't write much now -- typing on phone -- but I should note I have to get used to pumping ASAP anyway, and get baby to accept both breast and bottle. primary breadwinner and so I have to pump @ office after my short maternity leave. prob. the major reason I had supply drama last time too.
                              Honestly, I'd start dom after giving birth. You can always wean off it if you don't need it. But if you do need it, it's difficult to get it in time to make the kinds of jumps in the kind of time frame we all want



                              iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order

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