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  • Anti aging creams

    How does everyone feel about topical vitamin a creams like retinol etc? Supposedly these are one of the only things proven to reduce wrinkles. Just curious what the primal community thinks.

  • #2
    don't know...my step-mother swears by Strivectin-D for halting her wrinkles. I use an Arbonne anti-aging line. Does it work? I have no idea.

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    • #3
      I recommend an aloe gel. There is one at the whole foods stores that's 100% pure aloe gel, plus some vitamins that works really well at evening face tone and reducing or preventing wrinkles. Also, I like the Olay Night Effects Regenerist line. Are these "primal", no idea, but they work for me.

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      • #4
        Retin - A has the most studies to support the ability to rebuild collegen. The loss of which causes the aging effects.

        If you're going to use Retin-A, get yourself EDUCATED on it. Understand the side effects. You should not use it if you are PG or nursing.

        You MUST use sunscreen over treated skin. You otherwise invite sever sunburn, skin cancer and aging worse than what you might have started with.

        Retin A is AWESOME!

        Other topicals: Mytrixal (which is what's in Strivectin D) is gaining lots of momentum, with studies and such. Vitamin C serums can be great. You want a good product that is jarred in dark bottles. It oxydizes FAST!

        SeaKelp Bioferment within products is also really nice.

        Copper Peptides can be great. Again, you must be educated on this product. People have the tendancy to get gung ho, and then regret it every time they look in the mirror.

        In the end, Retin-A is probably the most clinically proven active.

        And I know that around here, sun is awesome, and great for Vit. D absorbtion. Personally, I keep my face, neck, chest, and hands covered. No need to look like a raisin.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Jenn View Post
          How does everyone feel about topical vitamin a creams like retinol etc? Supposedly these are one of the only things proven to reduce wrinkles. Just curious what the primal community thinks.
          retinol won't be terribly helpful but prescription retinoids like retin-a (or it's generic, tretinoin) and tazorac (tazarotene) are absolutely the gold standard in treating photoaging, which is essentially what all aging is prior to age 70 or so.

          I *love* retinoids and use them daily. For the past five years, they've been part of my skin care routine and what they've done for me is amazing. I only wish I'd started them as a teen and used them continuously. I also meticulously protect my face, neck and chest from UV radiation by wearing highly UVA protective european s/s containing both tinosorbs, by wearing a wide brimmed hat and gloves. And long sleeves. Yes, I know, a burqa would probably would be easier

          Originally posted by TriCiCi View Post
          don't know...my step-mother swears by Strivectin-D for halting her wrinkles. I use an Arbonne anti-aging line. Does it work? I have no idea.
          All hype, no benefit. For both:/

          What does have benefit for anti-aging
          maintaining a low BMI (i failed miserably but am fixing that now)
          maintaining healthfully low blood sugars and avoiding AGEs...glycation is *awful* for skin
          highly UVA protective sunscreen applied frequently and at proper use rates (as well as hat, close fitting wrap sunglasses, gloves etc)
          and topical ascorbic acid serums (other antioxidant serums are helpful but nothing comes close to what topical *ascorbic acid* can do.

          Anything else is truly minimally helpful until we're into surgery and strong lasers.

          Originally posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
          I recommend an aloe gel. There is one at the whole foods stores that's 100% pure aloe gel, plus some vitamins that works really well at evening face tone and reducing or preventing wrinkles. Also, I like the Olay Night Effects Regenerist line. Are these "primal", no idea, but they work for me.
          The peptides in regnerist are marginally helpful....not in any visible way but at a microscopic level. I do like regenerist serum as a carrier for my retinoids. There is no wrinkle prevention benefit from aloe. Often times what seems to be helpful is nothing more than temporary plumping that occurs from topical moisture if skin was dehydrated.

          Somewhere in my links is some info. And at makeupalley.com, the notepads for users beethovengirl, tetrakis, sunscreens, sunscreendata, retinoids all have incredibly helpful information. It's worth registering just to read the info.

          But for those not interested in going that step, just remember:
          highly UVA protective s/s
          rx retinoids (daily, to tolerance)
          ascorbic acid serum (my links below have a link to a C serum spreadsheet)



          iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order

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          • #6
            and fwiw, I'm 40. My avatar picture was taken in June of this year. I do have dynamic lines that aren't visible in the picture but just about daily I get positive comments on my skin.

            There are some larger pictures in my profile and my journal



            iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order

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            • #7
              At my age I've tried too many anti-aging creams, potions, and miracle lotions to count. Now I use plain old coconut oil, not to be confused with the fancy creams that proclaim coconut oil on the label. I have a large jar in the kitchen that I use for cooking and use that to refill a couple of small plastic containers with tight lids that I keep in each bathroom. Wash your face and while its still wet just dab some on and rub in. It will not be sticky or greasy (unless you really pile it on) and by the time your face dries, the oil is absorbed in your skin. In fact I use it all over; feels wonderful on just shaved legs.
              In the last year i've had strangers ask what kind of products I use even though I am the BIG 60.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by cillakat View Post
                There are some larger pictures in my profile and my journal
                I'm pretty sure most of the guys here already know that. *rowr*

                heh

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by twinmama View Post
                  Retin - A has the most studies to support the ability to rebuild collegen. The loss of which causes the aging effects.

                  If you're going to use Retin-A, get yourself EDUCATED on it. Understand the side effects. You should not use it if you are PG or nursing.
                  I have some information about retinoid use while nursing on my notepad. Personally I would have no problem using it while nursing. None at all. Very few drugs are problematic while nursing (see Hale Medications and Mothers Milk)

                  You MUST use sunscreen over treated skin. You otherwise invite sever sunburn, skin cancer and aging worse than what you might have started with
                  Not so Kligman has written a bunch on this topic. The sensitivity associated with retinoid use only lasts 3-6 months then it's the opposite, it's actually protective.


                  Other topicals: Mytrixal (which is what's in Strivectin D) is gaining lots of momentum, with studies and such.
                  The data I've seen is less than impressive.

                  Vitamin C serums can be great. You want a good product that is jarred in dark bottles. It oxydizes FAST!
                  Very true. I keep 8 sample size dropper bottles on hand to divvy up my 1 ounce bottles.....they all stay in the fridge (for freshness) and I just keep one up in the bathroom. This way they're all perfectly fresh (ie clear not champagne or yellow or amber) when I break into a new one.

                  Copper Peptides can be great. Again, you must be educated on this product. People have the tendancy to get gung ho, and then regret it every time they look in the mirror.
                  Copper is definitely beneficial but retinoids and C are dramatically more so. And there are some theories (picky obsessive ones) indicating that C shouldn't be used with copper or other metals.

                  In the end, Retin-A is probably the most clinically proven active.
                  There's no doubt. Not only the most clinically proven (ie the most studied) but also truly the most effective.

                  And I know that around here, sun is awesome, and great for Vit. D absorbtion. Personally, I keep my face, neck, chest, and hands covered. No need to look like a raisin.
                  Yeah. I am getting sun now a few times a week (five times this past week), but even at the beach I covered and s/s'd my face, neck, chest, arms and hands like a crazy person. Except I spared my family the embarassment of me wearing gloves at the beach/pool like I have in the past Trying to be more accomodating wrt how my obsessiveness impacts my near and dear family members. lol.


                  (and Bane, thanks)



                  iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order

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                  • #10
                    I've never tried Retin-A because I am extremely fair and burn easily and don't want to make that worse.

                    I have been using LiftFusion serum for about 3 years now. When I first started it I took a close-up "before" shot, and after 30 days took an "after". There was a very real difference, and I have been faithful with it ever since.

                    I am much, much older than the other moms at my daughter's school, but no one knows. I think if I start to see sagging I will do the microcurrent facials -- too scared for surgery! But it is important to me that my daughter is never embarrassed by having an "old" mom. I'm sure I'll embarrass her enough in other ways!

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                    • #11
                      Personally I don't use any anti aging products yet, but I've been using DermaE skincare products for quite some time and recently got my mum to try their anti aging creams and serums. She loves how they feel and thinks she sees the difference in appearance of her wrinkles. Their ingredient list looks very good too.
                      Just thinking though - I've been using their DMAE Alpha Lipoic C-Ester serum which is packaged in a clear pump bottle. Would that affect the potency of vitamin C? I know ester forms of it are supposed to be more stable.

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                      • #12
                        I use coconut oil. That's it. I use it on my face and neck and have seen my skin transform in the year or so that I've been doing this.
                        Down almost 40 lbs. 70 to go.

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                        • #13
                          I'm using a line called 302 Skincare, which increases collagen synthesis through improving the metabolism of skin cells. It's very popular for healing acne pitting (not that I have that issue).

                          It's a non-acid line and designed to promote lasting, cumulative results, unlike peptides, which only work as long as you use them. They actually fatigue the skin's receptors; too many actives can do that and it's common to have products just stop working one day- what really happens is that the skin is fatigued and becomes resistant (a bit like insulin resistance).
                          Over use of acids, on the other hand, can really thin the skin and then you end up with a bunch of broken capillaries!

                          What really sold me were the long term results some of the ladies over at the Essential Day Spa forum are getting. These ladies are hardcore about their skin (and they try everything!)
                          The lady in these pics is in her early 50's"
                          http://www.essentialdayspa.com/forum....php?tid=28855

                          I've seen a difference in my skin texture for sure. I have less lines and my skin is more vital. I know I look young in my pic (I'm 33) but I'm old enough to have early aging and I did, indeed, have collagen loss from low hormones and being raw vegan (oy!). The 302 is reversing it:-)
                          http://www.prettyinprimal.blogspot.com

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Roo View Post
                            I've never tried Retin-A because I am extremely fair and burn easily and don't want to make that worse.
                            It really truly won't as long as you go slowly with the retinoids (ie don't use them per package instructions), paying close attention to your skin's cues. Use less than you think you need initially.....ideally use 'short contact therapy'. That simply means applying the *pea* size amount of retinoid then washing it off after two minutes. With sensitive skin, even 30 seconds is generally enough. Also, contrary to conventional wisdom, I find tazorac cream much more tolerable than tretinoin (ie retin-A, renova etc)

                            I have been using LiftFusion serum for about 3 years now. When I first started it I took a close-up "before" shot, and after 30 days took an "after". There was a very real difference, and I have been faithful with it ever since.
                            This is often the case with any topicals that are started when there was no real skincare routine in place....consistent hydration does improve appearance, so can mild acids, mild lighteners etc

                            Here are the ingredients for LiftFusion serum
                            ;Water (Aqua), Cyclopentasiloxane, Ethylehexyl Palmitate, [highly comedogenic emollient....this will give the appearance of plumping for many people....my skin *loves* loves loves it....but it has no anti-aging benefit]

                            Amino Butyric Acid, Polysilicone 11, Sodium Polyacrylate, Hydrolyzed Hibiscus Esculentus Extract, Panax Ginseng Root Extract, Portulaca Oleracea Extract, Centella Asiatica, Dextrin, Hydrolyzed Wheat Protein, Hydrolyzed Rice Bran Protein, Ethylhexyl Stearate, Trideceth 6, N Hydroxysuccinimide, Chrysin, Palmitoyl Oligopeptide, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide, [peptides that will be beneficial but minimally and microscopically so compared to retinoids]

                            Glycerin,[humectant....draws moisture in and helps hold it in.....plumping effect]

                            Steareth 20, Silica Dimethyl Silylate, Butylene Glycol, Sodium Hyaluronate, [humectant....draws moisture in and helps hold it in.....plumping effect. the right molecular weight of HA can penetrate deeply and have significant effect]

                            Barium Sulfate (CI 77120), Ceramide 3, Cholesterol, [ceramides, cholesterol and fatty acids are an evidence based tx to improve barrier function and reduce Total Epidermal Water Loss - TEWL.....but anti-aging effects from ceramides are very very minimal]

                            Phytosphingosine, Polyvinyl Alcohol, Acrylates/C12 22 Alkyl Methacrylate Copolymer, Polyvinyl Acetate, Acetyl Tetrapeptide 5, [window dressing at that amount] Phenoxyethanol, Caprylyl Glycol, Sorbic Acid


                            I am much, much older than the other moms at my daughter's school, but no one knows. I think if I start to see sagging I will do the microcurrent facials...... But it is important to me that my daughter is never embarrassed by having an "old" mom.
                            High PPD european s/s, retinoids, ascorbic acid C serums

                            Originally posted by hazyjane View Post
                            I'm using a line called 302 Skincare, which increases collagen synthesis through improving the metabolism of skin cells. It's very popular for healing acne pitting (not that I have that issue).
                            "Phyto-lipids of avocado, organic jojoba oil, avocatin 302 (Avogen™), vanilla, lavender, and mint extracts."

                            This is a perfect example of mostly hype. The plant extracts will certainly even skin tone and the oils will plump and moisturize but this offers little to no long term anti-aging benefit.

                            It's a non-acid line and designed to promote lasting, cumulative results, unlike peptides, which only work as long as you use them.
                            Please post some data showing that there are long lasting cumulative effects and that peptides fatigue receptors.

                            They actually fatigue the skin's receptors; too many actives can do that and it's common to have products just stop working one day- what really happens is that the skin is fatigued and becomes resistant (a bit like insulin resistance).
                            What actually happens is that skin integrity improves from the use of certain actives. As dermal thickeness and barrier function improve, penetration of actives is decreased. There are a variety of options to improve delivery and effect of said actives.


                            The lady in these pics is in her early 50's"
                            It's not uncommon to see 50 yo asian women looking like that. Asians have significant facial fat so age related facial fat loss is delayed for many years and as a group, they tend to be *extremely* sun avoidant delaying or eliminating facial aging far past the point that caucasians begin to show signficant aging.


                            Originally posted by That girl View Post
                            She loves how they feel and thinks she sees the difference in appearance of her wrinkles. Their ingredient list looks very good too.
                            Most of their ingredients in the anti-aging topicals aren't in concentration to be of significant benefit....though I do like some of their products for general use, they're not worth counting on for anti-aging.

                            Just thinking though - I've been using their DMAE Alpha Lipoic C-Ester serum which is packaged in a clear pump bottle. Would that affect the potency of vitamin C? I know ester forms of it are supposed to be more stable.
                            MAP and SAP and the other non-ascorbic forms of C are very stable and will be fine in clear glass.

                            However...they simply do not have the benefits of ascorbic acid. They're nice antioxidant topicals to use in addition to ascorbic but I'd only use them in place of ascorbic if ascorbic wasn't tolerated at all, in any concentration. In my links, I have a non-ascorbic C spreadsheet as well.



                            iherb referral code CIL457- $5 off first order

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                            • #15
                              Cillakat, are there specific sunscreen brands that you recommend?

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