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When Someone Brings Up God How Do You Respond?

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  • #61
    Religion is always a touchy subject b/c someone is going to be offended regardless of where the conversation goes. Thats a problem I can not stand b/c I love to get into discussions with people who have varying opinions from my own. To me this is the best way to truly understand how someone else's thought process works and religion is the ultimate fascinating subject. I'm not particularly religious but I am also not idiotic enough to think I know all the answers. For someone to blindly say Religion is false is either ignorant or misinformed b/c we truly have no idea one way or the other. Do all main religions have the same stories? Yes, Humans have an oral tradition of passing stories from generation to generation to help explain the world as it was, as it is and how it could be. To say Science has every single answer is beyond simple minded b/c we haven't even grasped the total capacity of what our own brain can do. We know dark matter exist yet we can't find any. We can look for the gravitational shift but we can't see it, we can't create it or harness the power we think it has.

    There is an infinite number of possibilities of what God may be but again we have no definitive clues. He might be a mythical figure in the sky watching from above and writing down everything we do but I doubt it. God may have been the single cell that created the basis of life or just a figment of our imagination. Just b/c something doesn't fit into your version of reality doesn't mean it doesn't exist. When I went to Iraq I saw things I never would have never imagined. I saw the world from a completely different perspective that opened my eyes. I saw pilgrims making the trek to Hajj, I saw Christians walk the old roads of Babylon (what was left of them- Thx Germans) and I saw a suicide bomber try to kill an entire bus which thankfully backfired and blew his leg off but one man on the bus, who would have surely been a victim gave the guy help. He took his belt off (once we got rid of the explosives) and used it as a turniquit for a man who was going to kill him and his family. Asked why, he said it was the right thing to do. Allah would have not approved if I let him die in front of me. Explain that to me. Someone who has the intestinal fortitude to do something in the face of evil (misguided evil) and not think twice about what could/should have happened. He believed in a higher power and used that power to overcome his fear of death and anger to help someone who in my mind should have bled out.

    As mentioned above, I've seen the impact of what religion can do (both good and bad) but one must respect the power of religion, what it offers and how it affects those who believe. Name one thing where someone is so eager to prove their worth that they'll commit suicide to show their passion? Religion is like the brain. We know a lot about certain aspects but yet we truly have no idea how deep the rabbit hole goes. We can speculate but that only leads to more questions which leads to further debate and thats the only way to truly delve deeper into a subject. So while Science has given us a lot of answers along with more questions there is no Scientific prrof he doesn't exist. We might not yet how to look or what the right question to ask is.
    Today is a new day. You will get out of it just what you put into it. If you have made mistakes, there is always another chance for you. And supposing you have tried and failed again and again, you may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call 'Failure' is not the falling down, but the staying down.

    Mary Pickford

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    • #62
      Originally posted by DarthFriendly View Post
      As a satanist, when someone mentions god, I just eat their babies.

      Remember christians, and their uncool god have been persecuting my people of thousands of years.
      Always classic Darth. Do the Sith Lords have a gOd?
      Today is a new day. You will get out of it just what you put into it. If you have made mistakes, there is always another chance for you. And supposing you have tried and failed again and again, you may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call 'Failure' is not the falling down, but the staying down.

      Mary Pickford

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      • #63
        Thank you Tangentrider....Sadly many christians and non-christians do not know how to properly interpret the bible. The greek/hebrew gets translated into shitty modern versions taken literally , and few people truly go back to the source- Which then get taken up by clever advertisers who scripture pull to put their products and ideas on high. Where does anyone get off on suggesting that its God ordained to eat grains based on the bread of life? It's a metaphor and its goes directly back to manna, which carries no earthly carbohydrate properties.
        Regardless, fyi In the time of Jesus, the "grains" that did exist were not white bread, rice-a-roni and kraft macaroni and cheese. More like sprouted grains. God also suggests that you shouldn't judge what you neighboor chooses to eat or not eat. Some people didn't eat meat for various reasons, just like today some people choose not to eat certain grains. Whoop dee do dah! God is after your heart, not your stomach!
        Guess what, its man that created the plow, and the agriculture process involved in the grain, and frakenfood industry and everything under the sun. Why does it surprise everyone that we are full of toxins, obese and dying of all kinds of diseases? Oh , it must be because God made cheetos and forgot to tell us to eat everything in moderation.....
        Dietary laws of the Bible were directed towards those living in the old testament......the new testament started after the cross and I'm pretty sure it sums it all up as give thanks. Weather its your lamb chops or your mountain dew

        Paul’s Determination

        The apostle Paul told the Corinthian Gentiles it was legal for them to eat food which Jews would have considered an abomination. He said: “Whatsoever is sold in the shambles [meatmarkets], that eat, asking no question for conscience sake” (1 Corinthians 10:25). This was contrary to the Dietary Laws of the Old Testament. Gentile markets did not subscribe to kosher regulations. They did not kill animals the way Jews were required to do. They used the same knives, cleavers, blocks, and other implements to kill rabbits, pigs, octopus, as they did to kill cattle, goats, and sheep. To the Jews, who kept the Dietary Laws, all Gentile meatmarkets were unclean (tameh). But Paul said Christians could go ahead and eat meat though it was butchered and sold in Gentile markets. Paul even went so far as to say:

        “I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean [common] of itself; but to him that esteems anything to be unclean [common], to him it is unclean [common].”

        Romans 14:14

        Paul said this teaching came from the Lord Himself. Christ said, “there is nothing from without a man that entering into him can defile him” (Mark 7:15). One thing for certain, Paul did not subject his Gentile converts to any ceremonial taboos concerning food. Indeed, he told them plainly: “All things indeed are pure [clean]” (Romans 14:20).

        When Paul said “all things ... are pure,” what was he talking about? His subject was food — flesh, vegetables, and wine. Paul was saying all foods were indeed pure (clean). There was to be no ceremonially unclean food to the Christian. Paul did admit, however, that there were some brethren who were very finical over what they ate. These were weak brethren who did not understand the mature teachings of Christ concerning food (Romans 14:1–6). To reiterate:

        “If your brother be grieved with your meat, now walk you not charitably, destroy not him with your meat, for whom Christ died.”

        Romans 14:15

        “For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is an evil for that man who eats with offence. It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything whereby your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is made weak.”

        Romans 14:20–21

        Even though all things were pure to Paul, and one might eat “whatsoever is sold in the shambles [meatmarkets]” (1 Corinthians 10:25), Paul said it was not good to eat such things in front of a brother if the brother would be offended. “For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit” (Romans 14:17).

        At this point in our discussion, let us clearly understand what Paul is not talking about. He is not discussing the hygienic fitness or unfitness of foods. The question of health is nowhere discussed in the context of Romans or Corinthians. He is talking about meats which some considered taboo in a religious sense. For example, some were reckoning meat which had been offered to idols as being “unclean.”

        “For some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commends us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.”

        1 Corinthians 8:7–9

        Some were feeling that meat could become “unclean” through religious contamination. 6 It is not that they considered the meats to be physically unfit for human consumption. It was the ceremonial or ritualistic contamination that concerned them. But Paul was not interested in such ceremonial uncleanness. Indeed, if the Corinthians went to a feast at the home of an unbeliever (an unconverted Gentile), Paul told them: “Whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake” (1 Corinthians 10:27). No ordinary Jew, or scrupulous Christian in Paul’s day would dare eat such food offered to idols. They thought it spiritually contaminated.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Primal Toad View Post
          I don't like many of your responses Griff... You would literally point and laugh? Why? There is no reason to laugh at what someone believes in no matter what it is. Thats what makes this world so great - no one is right or wrong about anything. We all believe in different things. In the end the only thing that matters is that we are alive. We are all living on this beautiful Earth and have a chance to make it extremely special with our choices.
          I agree Toad.
          Ancestral Health Info

          I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

          Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.

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          • #65
            Actually, Jesus didn't say " I am the bread of life" because Jesus didn't speak English.

            The original Aramaic language was translated into 3 or 4 langauges until it finally made its way into English. Along the way it was skewed through politics and greed. Dr. Rocco Errico is the world expert in Aramaic currently. Saw him speak once and the true Aramaic Bible is full of love, understanding and tolerance. But I'm not sure it is full of bread!

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            • #66
              Seriously though, who cares what the bible says? Primal living makes sense, we see it work we have the evidence we can hold in our hands.
              Starting Weight : 338lbs 6/11/2010
              Current Weight: 266lbs
              High-school Weight: 235lbs
              Goal: ????

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Hedonist View Post
                Since I'm pagan, there really is nothing useful that I could say. If someone said that to me in a face-to-face conversation, I would change the subject.
                Then, if it was someone I cared about, I would lovingly bake them a loaf of almond bread.
                Ancestral Health Info

                I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

                Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Well, the Bible also speaks of treating your body as your temple and glorifying God through doing so. And the primal lifestyle has obviously done wonders for many people and excludes food that everyone can agree on being unhealthy. If you were to challenge them to do only a month of the primal living and see if they were feeling healthier and better, and they did...Then, they could see it as a step to treating their body better as God requests. They risk no harm in trying it, except having to admit they were wrong.

                  However, I also realize that the people who are overly skeptical and stuck in their own views will likely not want to give it a month trial. At that point, at least you did your job of informing and attempting to open up minds about a new idea.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Russ View Post
                    Seriously though, who cares what the bible says? Primal living makes sense, we see it work we have the evidence we can hold in our hands.
                    The Aramaic Bible is slightly different from that which came down through the Greeks. There are whole passages that read differently, and some that aren't in there at all, if I recall correctly. Not that I've read it. Just read a comparison of it in various places. If I am not mistaken, it is also the older version.

                    Edit: Hah! I meant to quote Roo. My bad!
                    Last edited by Katt; 08-06-2010, 05:40 PM. Reason: Apology!
                    Start weight: 250 - 06/2009
                    Current weight: 199
                    Goal: 145

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by MamaGrok View Post
                      This is true for many religions, and for many Christians, but it is not true for Catholics. As John Paul II said, "faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the truth."
                      Nothing says "rational" like telling AIDS-victims that contraception is wrong
                      “The whole concept of a macronutrient, like that of a calorie, is determining our language game in such a way that the conversation is not making sense." - Dr. Kurt Harris

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                      • #71
                        I agree that using logic in a conversation with a religious person is pointless 99% of the time. But if I were in a similar situation, I would tell them that we were created in the Garden of Eden. We hunted and foraged there, and part of the punishment of taking the forbidden fruit was that we would be destined to till the earth and work all day. Sorry if that is wrong and Genesis says something different. I do not study the myths of bronze age tribesmen.

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                        • #72
                          I am astonished at the number of people who will level flat out insults based on someone's beliefs regarding religion. I haven't seen anyone here be so abusive as some of those in this thread about anything, not even, GASP, vegans.

                          There are Christians posting here with respect towards those who are bashing them with the heaviest of hammers, and there are atheists, pagans, and agnostics posting here with respect & human decency. But there are others who are just plain out mean-spirited. A little peace, please?

                          The laws of physics are also difficult for many to follow. Most can NOT explain them with even the slightest bit of accuracy. The just "believe" them to be true.
                          Still an excellent point. All of us take on faith that the earth is round and that the moon revolves around the earth which revolves around the sun and that man can & has walked on the moon - unless you have seen, done, or physically proven it yourself. "Faith" does NOT mean blindly accepting something that has no basis in reason. True faith is accepting something reasonable as true b/c you have good reason to believe the source, it makes sense, and it does not contradict what you already know to be true.

                          Blind faith is something altogether different. And there are people who believe religion is and should be blind faith - there are atheists, Christians, and presumably many others who believe this. There are many Christians and those of other faiths, however, who do not believe this - I can't name which ones do or don't because I don't know specifically; I know only that mine (Catholic) is in the "faith AND reason" category. To have respectful and effective dialogue, you need to know what your "opponent" really believes. If you think that all believers simply take their religion on someone else's word, with no place for reason to enter into the discussion, you are mistaken.
                          Last edited by MamaGrok; 08-06-2010, 07:09 PM.
                          5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                          Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                          Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                          Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                          ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Daemonized View Post
                            You ask someone, "Do you believe that we were created by a god or are you willing to consider that humans were part of an evolutionary process independently of whether or not there is a god?" If someone selects the former then no intelligent conversation on the topic is possible.
                            Have you considered that for some of us, there is a question that is perhaps a better test of whether intelligent conversation on the topic of evolution is possible: "Are you willing to consider that evolution is how God created human beings?"

                            Agreed again with twinmama - saying "it's a theory" is not bashing it; it's simply differentiating it from a fact. (Side note: the person who posted the article on "theory vs. hypothesis" - the article I saw was about "theory vs. fact" and agreed with what I believe twinmama & I are saying about this.) It's a theory just like Newtonian physics was the working theory we had until Relativity helped us to see the variables we were missing that only matter at speeds approaching light. I imagine the current theories on evolution will continue to be refined over time in like manner. But when she said it was a "theory," it was not in the disdainful tone that I imagine you've heard all too often that uses "just a theory" to dismiss it altogether.


                            Chaohinon, I'm not sure why I'm bothering to take the OT bait, but I invite you to investigate what has happened to the HIV rate in every country which has begun to use condoms to fight the problem, and what happened in Uganda when they decided to take a different approach. Harvard AIDS Project Research Director Edward Green, among others, confirms that science is on the side of the pope on this question. (See also here and here, just for starters & giggles)
                            5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                            Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                            Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                            Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                            ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Griff View Post
                              *shrug* I meant "point and laugh" figuratively. What I'd really do is start eviscerating their belief system. But the fact is, I can't regard belief in a "god" with anything other than pity and head-scratching as to why anyone would believe such silly nonsense.

                              Look, we're on this site to find out how to make our bodies work better. That's called SCIENCE, not RELIGION. Anyone using religious justifications for their dietary choices is either a) ignorant and in desperate need of education or b) too unintelligent to ever understand reality and thus a lost cause. I'm firmly on the side of science, because science actually provides real evidence for its claims. Religion does no such thing - quite the contrary. It demands belief without proof and calls it "faith."

                              Sorry, but I'm just not that credulous.
                              Griff, please stop. Your attitude literally disgusts me. There is no reason at all to hate on people who believe in God. What's the point? Do what you want and don't worry about others. Whether there is a God or not does not matter. If someone believes there is someone watching over them and someone with them every step of the way then they are able to get through things a lot easier.

                              My mom is a Christian and believes in everything. My parents with through A LOT about 6 years ago with my brother getting into trouble. She prayed every night which helped her get through the very tough times. Was God answering her prayers? I personally do NOT believe so. But, am I going to stop her from praying? Not in a billion years. If she has faith that they will be answered then thats all that matters because it causes her to take appropriate action to make the situation better. Its herself that got her through the tough times - she just needed to believe she is talking to someone else to get through it all.

                              Why do you hate on people like this?

                              Originally posted by Griff View Post
                              I don't. If you believe science and the scientific method of "disprove your hypothesis if you can," then religion is by definition false. I don't respect people who believe things without proof. I can't. If you can, more power to you - but in my opinion, respecting beliefs that have no proof behind them (i.e. RELIGION - and for that matter, most of CW) is just enabling the believers to keep on messing up the world with the consequences of those beliefs.
                              Again, please stop. Your comments are very rude. I was enjoying everyones comments up until yours. I like some of the things you say but you are going too far. I am not going to let it get to me but you might be hurting a lot of people who believe in God. Please let them believe what they want to believe in - especially since it can help millions get through extremely difficult times. Do you have sympathy for anyone?
                              Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

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                              • #75
                                There is a world of difference between disrespecting people and disrespecting beliefs.

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