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When Someone Brings Up God How Do You Respond?

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  • #16
    I'm also Catholic, and agree with twinmama 100%.

    Along those lines,

    Religion doesn't come from a place of reason, though
    This is true for many religions, and for many Christians, but it is not true for Catholics. As John Paul II said, "faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the truth." Neither can contradict the other, b/c they are both means to the same, one, truth. You can arrive at the conclusions that the earth is round and the moon revolves around the earth and men can walk on it either by proving & experiencing it yourself, or you can know it b/c someone trustworthy told you so. The first is reason; the second is faith. Most of us believe those things by faith, yet that does not mean we believe them irrationally. Our faith must be grounded and must not contradict reason, else one of the two is false.

    Benedict XVI was lambasted at Regenburg because he insisted on true religious faith being grounded in reason, b/c God Himself is a rational, knowable being. One may find the Catholic faith wrong, and be well entitled to hold that belief, but know that it is *not* based on "blind faith."

    There is nothing in my Catholic faith that contradicts anything I've read at MDA. Whether the theory of evolution is eventually incontrovertibly proven or not, it changes nothing about the truth of the primal "blueprint" and changes nothing about the compatibility of these things with my beliefs. It is actually my Catholic faith that led me to search for the things that comply with the nature - truly "natural" - God granted us.

    The question Toad is dealing with is a legitimate one, one I've entertained myself. I think that, especially since you're dealing with strict 6000-year Creationists (which Catholics are not), I'd probably follow tangentrider's logic, which addresses their concerns within the context of their belief system without needing to get into the validity of that system. There are some who still won't be happy, b/c they won't be open to the idea that Christ may have been using an analogy based solely on what the audience around him knew ("becoming all things to all men"), and probably the only tact there is, as twinmama suggested, to deal solely with what is going on today. Discuss the fact that b/c of our excess consumption of grains bred to be excessively high in gluten which we no longer allow to rise for the time needed to make that gluten digestible and which are in many other ways ill-prepared, we are seeing an epidemic of people losing their ability to tolerate any grains at all.

    Good luck!
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    • #17
      To be perfectly honest, I've been having a crisis of faith lately. I used to give daily praise to the Flying Spaghetti Monster-- or, FSM; or His Noodly One-- but lately science has called everything I once believed into question. I can only assume that He has guided me with His Noodly Appendage to Mark's Daily Apple so that I could learn He's actually a Flying Squash Spaghetti Monster.

      Grainless RAmen.

      MR
      Diary of a Madman

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      • #18
        The bible was written in parable form to make it easier to understand..."the bread of life" was not meant to be taken literally in the original Hebrew language.

        That said, I think that PrimalChild is right..."just smile and say ok."

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Primal Toad View Post
          Thats what makes this world so great - no one is right or wrong about anything.
          That's where you and I will have to disagree. I don't tolerate superstition or beliefs that have no proof, and religion has zero proof. Sorry that you don't like my responses. I don't like yours much, either.
          Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

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          • #20
            "I'll bear that in mind, however, my body does not handle grains well."
            Which is true on both accounts, just not the way most would take it. I mean it as "I'll remember not to bring up this topic again with you," they'll take it as "I'll take your response under serious consideration and see what I can do to remedy this." If asked again, I revert to a very similar line.
            For God/dess/e/s stuff in general, I usually smile and let them ramble on. When they've reached a stopping point, I change the topic. If they blatantly ask, I'll usually reply with "I'm spiritual but not religious. I'm glad you've found a religion that suits you, but I have not." I never add on that I think organized religion are some of the best businesses with the best brand recognition on the planet.
            Anywho, those two will usually cause them to change the topic. If they press further, it becomes "I fail to see the reason that your belief must be my belief. Conversation closed. Next topic." Further pressing and I walk away or, if in a situation that is unadvised, I'll repeat "Conversation closed. Next topic." until they get a clue.
            Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, steak in one hand, chocolate in the other, yelling "Holy F***, What a Ride!"
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            • #21
              Since I'm pagan, there really is nothing useful that I could say. If someone said that to me in a face-to-face conversation, I would change the subject.
              Ancestral Health Info

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              • #22
                Remember it was eating an apple that caused all our troubles in the first place. That damn fructose again!
                activate the rhythm, the rhythm that has always been within

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                • #23
                  I think your responses were fine on there. This last comment I read though threw me for a loop.

                  "Yes, we as a nation probably eat too many grains and grain fed meats, but I would not think it wise to adopt a diet based on flawed reasoning at its very core.

                  God created this earth. He created grains. As previously mentioned, Jesus said, I am the BREAD of life. That tells me right there that bread is not the root evil.
                  "

                  I like how science is considered "flawed reasoning". Where is the facepalm icon on here????

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                  • #24
                    God created this earth. He created grains. As previously mentioned, Jesus said, I am the BREAD of life. That tells me right there that bread is not the root evil. "
                    Also remind anyone that uses the bread of life line that grain products back then were not over-processed, chemically treated vague semblances of their base products. While I'm fully on-board with the whole no grain products BP lifestyle, the grain based products back as soon as 100 years ago where no doubt healthier for people than the process crap that they package and put on the shelves.

                    I was raised Baptist, my wife is pretty hardcore Christian, I'm an unwashed heathen and have learned that religious arguments with hardcore believers usually don't end up well. Oddly enough I have had some extremely civil and honest discussion with my Muslim friends here in Egypt and they have been more accepting of me than a lot of Christians that I know.

                    Sorry, getting off topic now. I'll shut up.
                    Randal
                    AKA: Texas Grok

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Sleeping Fire View Post
                      The bible was written in parable form to make it easier to understand..."the bread of life" was not meant to be taken literally in the original Hebrew language.

                      That said, I think that PrimalChild is right..."just smile and say ok."
                      I'm no longer a Christian, but when I was this is pretty much what I believed (actually, even now as a Buddhist, I still believe this about the Bible and most religious texts). If someone wants to interpret the Bible literally, there's really not much of an argument to be made. If they think God told them to eat bread and doing what God says is the key to eternal salvation, then I'm not sure there's any proof or reason that will change their mind. In that case, save yourself the energy and go with PrimalChild's response.
                      Heather and the hounds - Make a Fast Friend, Adopt a Greyhound!

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                      • #26
                        When someone points at you and laughs because you're gonna die from eating so many meats and fats & you go against the great religion CW, what do you say to them? Most of us smile and change the subject.

                        Pointing & laughing just creates confrontation.

                        Just smile and nod.
                        Even if you fall flat on your face, at least you're moving forward!

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                        • #27
                          I agree with Kennelmom, that there is no convincing someone that wants to translate the bible literally. Regarding this subject, a great read is Misquoting Jesus, by Bart D. Ehrman, if anyone ever wants to beef up their defense against the Bible being the end all be all life instruction book. It is also a great read for Chirstians as well.
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                          • #28
                            As mentioned before, the best you can do is try to relate it to them on their terms as best you can. That's true when dealing with people in ANY context. The thing you really have to decide is how much work you want to put into it vs. the return on your investment, so to speak. No matter what, pointing and laughing is NEVER the way to relate to people. I'm not a believer myself so, I don't know how much weight my advice holds, but it is a fact that grains have to be cooked/processed to be digested. When God created Adam & Eve in the Garden of Eden he didn't give them a mortar & pestle and an oven, so maybe the eating of grain is an invention of Man and Jesus was relating to the masses to get his message across. Which is pretty much what you'll have to do.

                            Either way, good luck!

                            Originally posted by MamaGrok View Post
                            This is true for many religions, and for many Christians, but it is not true for Catholics. As John Paul II said, "faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the truth." Neither can contradict the other, b/c they are both means to the same, one, truth. You can arrive at the conclusions that the earth is round and the moon revolves around the earth and men can walk on it either by proving & experiencing it yourself, or you can know it b/c someone trustworthy told you so. The first is reason; the second is faith. Most of us believe those things by faith, yet that does not mean we believe them irrationally. Our faith must be grounded and must not contradict reason, else one of the two is false.
                            I think you need to be really careful with statements like this. Ideas like this are what leads to very heated arguments and in the extreme; holy wars.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by supersellen View Post
                              I agree with Kennelmom, that there is no convincing someone that wants to translate the bible literally. Regarding this subject, a great read is Misquoting Jesus, by Bart D. Ehrman, if anyone ever wants to beef up their defense against the Bible being the end all be all life instruction book. It is also a great read for Chirstians as well.
                              I'll have to look that book up...I think most people would benefit from a secular look at various faiths and religious texts, especially one's own. It's amazing how much of 'The Good Book' came down to earthly politics....what was included, excluded, which words were used and how they were interpreted as it was written and re-written.
                              Heather and the hounds - Make a Fast Friend, Adopt a Greyhound!

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by XYZ View Post
                                I think your responses were fine on there. This last comment I read though threw me for a loop.

                                "Yes, we as a nation probably eat too many grains and grain fed meats, but I would not think it wise to adopt a diet based on flawed reasoning at its very core.

                                God created this earth. He created grains. As previously mentioned, Jesus said, I am the BREAD of life. That tells me right there that bread is not the root evil.
                                "

                                I like how science is considered "flawed reasoning". Where is the facepalm icon on here????
                                This is just proof that the judaeo-christian god is trying to slowly poison us, to keep us weak so we cannot rise up and slay our maker!!! KILL GOD FOR FEEDING US BAD NUTRITION

                                naw, seriously though, there is no god


                                Originally posted by MamaGrok View Post
                                As John Paul II said, "faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the truth." Neither can contradict the other, b/c they are both means to the same, one, truth. You can arrive at the conclusions that the earth is round and the moon revolves around the earth and men can walk on it either by proving & experiencing it yourself, or you can know it b/c someone trustworthy told you so. The first is reason; the second is faith. Most of us believe those things by faith, yet that does not mean we believe them irrationally. Our faith must be grounded and must not contradict reason, else one of the two is false.
                                I think you might have the wrong idea of what faith is, believing something because someone said it is still proof, its anecdotal proof, but its still some evidence, and we use reason and rationality to determine the likely truth value of the claim (easier to believe something that we know happens, then if someone makes a wild claim about a monster, or a talking chair) faith however is believing in something for which there is no proof. In fact, faith is generally at odds with reason because you'd only really have to have faith in something if it was not reasonable.

                                Its like
                                (is there proof?)
                                if yes( yay! proof!)
                                if not (do i still want to believe it?)
                                If yes -> faith!

                                Main Entry: 1faith
                                Pronunciation: \ˈfāth\
                                Function: noun
                                Inflected Form(s): plural faiths \ˈfāths, sometimes ˈfāthz\
                                Etymology: Middle English feith, from Anglo-French feid, fei, from Latin fides; akin to Latin fidere to trust — more at bide
                                Date: 13th century
                                1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : loyalty b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
                                2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
                                3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs <the Protestant faith>
                                Last edited by Russ; 08-06-2010, 05:59 AM.
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                                Current Weight: 266lbs
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