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  • #31
    Sungrazer, I love rants! I couldn't agree with you more. A kill isn't something a person is supposed to feel happy or proud about but humble and blessed for being able to eat. If one is to feel happy and proud about something it could be a personal pride by the fact that one could at least preform a clean kill.

    I think that one of the reasons for this lack of respect for the kill (dead animal) is because no mainstream consumer sees the living animal, and if they pass a field wih animals they don't see the connection between that animal and the slab of meat that lands on their plate at dinner time. Out of sight, out of mind? Meat is just business ... money. Quick, sloppy and in bulk killing is cheaper than respectful and balanced kills. Yrk.

    Autumn

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    • #32
      Around here it's not unusual for folks to take a photo with a big kill. My parents have done it, and I would do it if I got nice big buck, or dare I dream, a bear. There is a certain feel of pride and accomplishment of getting such a fine animal. It's not necessarily a lack of respect when a hunter is photographed with his kill. It's nice to look back at some of those old photos of people and ask... how did you get that? Then they go through the tale of the big hunt. It's really quite tribal, for older hunters to recount stories of the big hunt. The photograph is just a record, a modern cave drawing of the event.

      At work we go through the same routine every year. All the guys that hunt (and myself) set up a "buck pool." The typical wager is $5. Small time bets for poor folks- lol. The terms- biggest buck wins. So of course we're all hoping to see a nice 8 or 10-point, or better, while we're out in the woods. If no bucks are had, the doe with the biggest ears wins- lol. Sure, this sounds cold and disrespectful, me putting my kill up against those of my co-workers, but I have no less respect for that animal when I kill it or when I eat it. Someday I want to completely blow them away, the only girl in the pool and I put all the fellas to shame. Yes, there are hunters out there who only hunt for the sport, and want to shoot the trophy. Some of these hunters don't even like deer meat, and often donate it to the local food shelter. Others simply give it away to people they know.

      I think there are very few hunters out there who don't care at all about the animal they kill. It's very rare. Those of us who have grown up in a hunting culture have a different way of seeing what outsiders miss. Pride in a kill isn't the same as disrespect for the fine animal we killed. In fact I think there's a certain amount of respect that comes from that experience, to have met the biggest and best, and won.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Gator View Post
        What snobbery. I have known many vegetarians. They did not disparage me for eating meat. They lived their lives and let me have mine. They didn't consider me to be a brainless entity. Not so with too many of you folk on this forum. If it isn't your style, it has no worth and would only be considered by clowns and brainless simpletons. Who is acting brainless and simple?

        I live and have lived following this sort of diet "forever". I need to remind you that science changes regularly. Perhaps what we have is just today's CW. Tell me it works so it is great. Then tell me that apple cider vinegar can't be good even though it works because your CW is against it. There are many people on many systems who are living well and thriving. They usually don't consider themselves superior to the rest of the world.

        Grow up.
        are you kidding me? are you serious? I too have known many vegetarians and vegans. My two best friends are one of both! And, whats more, I used to be vegan myself. I've read lots of vegan lit, and youre going to sit there and say that veganism takes no moral stance against meat eating and meat eaters in general? thats RIDICULOUS.

        In no way is anyone being snobby. OP asked our views on killing animals, and we replied. Nobody called anyone simple or brainless.....well, except for you.

        And, at the end of the day, this is a discussion forum. I find it amusing that so many people get bent out of shape when , alas, there are actual discussions!

        And, finally, "Grow up?" I still dont understand why we are being immature for expressing our opinions on a DISCUSSION FORUM. Perhaps it is you who needs to grow up and realize this.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by rok out with ur grok out View Post
          +1 people on this board do tend to be on a high horse. I swear and live by this lifestyle, but I find a lot of us are to quick to discredit others. I may not agree, for example, with certain religions, but you will never catch me talking down to others beliefs. Live by your life that you love, listen to others opinions, and respect them, no matter how different. Its to his/her own to find their root through life, and there is no right or wrong way. Our way just happens to be the primal way
          Are you two smoking crack? So we're not allowed to talk about the moral implications of killing animals because it might offend vegetarians? And I suppose the vegetarians and vegans are keeping silent about meat eaters???????? Its freedom of speech, its a discusion forum, I dont understand what the problem is.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Diana Renata View Post
            Around here it's not unusual for folks to take a photo with a big kill. My parents have done it, and I would do it if I got nice big buck, or dare I dream, a bear. There is a certain feel of pride and accomplishment of getting such a fine animal.
            Of course it is a feel of pride and accomplishment. I totally agree with you on that, and you should be proud of your hunt. It is the blatant flaunting and trophy display I frown upon. There are too many local to my homeplace that is bragging loudly and thumping their chests, driving around with the elk on the trailer before they bring it to the butcher to be prepared properly.

            Originally posted by Diana Renata View Post
            It's not necessarily a lack of respect when a hunter is photographed with his kill. It's nice to look back at some of those old photos of people and ask... how did you get that? Then they go through the tale of the big hunt. It's really quite tribal, for older hunters to recount stories of the big hunt. The photograph is just a record, a modern cave drawing of the event.
            Not so sure that was the purpose of the cave paintings, but I see your point and somewhat agree. Keep the photo for your self as a record, don't flaunt it around like a trophy. That is my stance.
            Sometimes you need to be told the truth in order to be able to see it.

            My journal

            I see grain people...

            Exist in shadow, drifting away.

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            • #36
              Sungrazer, I respectfully disagree. If I bag a bit ol' 12 point buck, I'm flaunting it baby. LOL

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              • #37
                Hehe - you go girl!
                Sometimes you need to be told the truth in order to be able to see it.

                My journal

                I see grain people...

                Exist in shadow, drifting away.

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                • #38
                  Interesting thread.

                  I'd be able to kill an animal if I HAD to. I certainly would not allow myself or family go hungry. And I'd learn the most respectable and efficient way possible. But I don't need to. I have adequate resources.

                  I don't dig the hunting as a sport bit. As I feel when you use the word SPORT, it's a game, and both sides know they are playing. So, if it's about sport, get in a cage with your chosen opponent and see who has better skills. 'Cause, I'm gonna wager that if any bear KNEW you were hot on its ass, you'd be dinner. Just being really good at sneaking around quietly, or down wind, or having great aim... Well...

                  I always thought this was a cool option. The Gun Camera Your photo will have cross hairs in it. Showing the shot you would have gotten...

                  I'm glad to read how many raise their animals for food, and do so with care... I'm a meat eater. So, I appreciate that others will do "the deed", and do it kindly. So, Thanks!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by lmyers04 View Post
                    Are you two smoking crack? So we're not allowed to talk about the moral implications of killing animals because it might offend vegetarians? And I suppose the vegetarians and vegans are keeping silent about meat eaters???????? Its freedom of speech, its a discusion forum, I dont understand what the problem is.
                    Ha sorry I've been misunderstood, I couldn't care less was vegans or others think about killing animals, I wasn't referring to the vegans but more broadly to anyone who eats different than us in general. I I understand its an opinion forum, and expressing my opinion is what I'm doing. I just get the feel around here that people tend to see others that don't eat primal or paleo as "blind". I'm not telling others what to do on the discussion board, I was simply expressing my beliefs and observations. However, I do highly respect everyone's effort to turn the other cheek when people do poke fun at the primal life as Helen pointed out. I did manage to not respect that aspect and apologize Sooooo to some up, I really couldn't care less what people say on here, as it is a place to vent, and I was expressing how I felt about how some, but defiantly not all, can act sometimes. and I sure as hell wasn't offended by any comments here. I, believe, that there is an equal percentage of holier-than-you primals and paleos as there are vegans and vegetarians.

                    However, this thread is about the spiritual and moral aspects of killing animals for food, which I have and will continue to do. I encourage all, even if its simply skinning a fish, to experience literally bringing home dinner, as that food feels earned, and you no longer have that disconnect from your food that leaves you unknown to the process
                    sigpic

                    Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free
                    Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands
                    With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves
                    Let me forget about today until tomorrow

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Diana Renata View Post
                      Sungrazer, I respectfully disagree. If I bag a bit ol' 12 point buck, I'm flaunting it baby. LOL
                      hahaha, more power to ya
                      sigpic

                      Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free
                      Silhouetted by the sea, circled by the circus sands
                      With all memory and fate driven deep beneath the waves
                      Let me forget about today until tomorrow

                      MY PRIMAL JOURNAL
                      MY PUBLIC FITDAY JOURNAL

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Twinmama, the year before a doe hunt in Northern California back in the 80s I had the pleasure of helping my park ranger buddy count 117 dead deer carcasses in the woods. Several hundred starved that winter due to overpopulation. Hunting is a humane form of wildlife management. When deer, coyotes, or coons become a nuisance or danger in neighborhoods you know there's population issues. Man has created the issues with his behaviors, but not taking out 25% of the doe population back then would have been inhumane. Hunters provide this service.

                        Believe me, both sides know the game is on. Man meets animal with his knowledge, skills and resources on the animal's home field. If they stop harvesting wild boars in Hawaii, the animals will destroy some of the most pristine beauty on earth as they starve. On Maui you can take as many Axis deer as you want, no limits. They are destructive, overpopulated, ruining crops, and starving in paradise.

                        Exotic giant bambis and the best venison on earth:

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Diana Renata View Post
                          It's not necessarily a lack of respect when a hunter is photographed with his kill. It's nice to look back at some of those old photos of people and ask... how did you get that? Then they go through the tale of the big hunt. It's really quite tribal, for older hunters to recount stories of the big hunt. The photograph is just a record, a modern cave drawing of the event.
                          I am not the big hunter of the house, but my husband is, and I totally agree with you on this. My husband's passion lies in hunting. But if you ask him, it is not the 'kill' that drives him, it is the challenge leading up it. Every year he ups the challenge more and more. He usually only bow hunts now, and he now is chasing after species that tend to live on 14,000 foot mountains where he spends days backpacking in, hiking miles and miles each day. Taking a photo with that animal is a way of recording his success not so much of taking a life, but of all the work it took to get there. Sort of like a photo at the end of a marathon. It represents hours and hours of research, preparation, and then sweat and work for days on end to get there. Its his tribal story, and my caveman likes to make his stories bigger and bigger each year.

                          Then he brings it home, we prepare the meat ourselves, and I take photos of our full freezer and all the recipes I make with that meat (my passion). When our freezer starts to go empty, he gets antsy to fulfill his primal need of providing for the family. His passion might be 'hunting', but he enjoys the pride of pushing his limits and filling our freezer aspect of hunting. He has always told me that killing is something that gives him an odd feeling, when he first approaches an animal he has taken he has mixed emotions about the event. Even after spending months planning for a particular hunting trip, the final ending is a weird place to be.

                          One other aspect to hunting, is animal conservation. My husband is president of one organization that raises money to conserve a particular species of animal. They spend countless hours every year raising money, doing research, and working with the division of wildlife to protect the herds. All of that is volunteer work, and I think it shows ultimate respect for the animals you may also hunt. They monitor the herds, do animal counts, pay to have animals moved around to make sure areas are not over or under populated, and to keep genetic diversity going. They watch for illness, track diseases, and fight to conserve land for them. They also spend a lot of time educating the public and putting on classes for kids. To me, this is a great way to respect an animal you may later take for food.

                          So if you see a hunter with a trophy photo....there is probably quite a story behind that photo, and it is definitely not all negative.
                          Erin
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                          • #43
                            I don't dig the hunting as a sport bit. As I feel when you use the word SPORT, it's a game, and both sides know they are playing. So, if it's about sport, get in a cage with your chosen opponent and see who has better skills. 'Cause, I'm gonna wager that if any bear KNEW you were hot on its ass, you'd be dinner. Just being really good at sneaking around quietly, or down wind, or having great aim... Well...
                            Isn't this what predators of the animal kingdom do? Sneak around quietly or down wind? Sure, humans use guns or other tools, but we also don't have the strength or speed of other predators.

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                            • #44
                              Ah Grol yes i second that about Axis being the best venison on earth! took my first one this past year. I would like to say about the whole taking a picture of the trophy thing, i do not think it is a bad thing! We as humans have the odd sense of history, so we like to save those memories, and pictures are a great way to do it. Do you think that if Grok was to down the largest beast they had ever encountered in their life he wouldn't save a piece of it to remember it by? Collecting teeth, horns, claws, etc.. and making necklaces or adornments out of them has been around for a very long time, and photos are just a reflection of that.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Grol View Post
                                Twinmama, the year before a doe hunt in Northern California back in the 80s I had the pleasure of helping my park ranger buddy count 117 dead deer carcasses in the woods. Several hundred starved that winter due to overpopulation. Hunting is a humane form of wildlife management. When deer, coyotes, or coons become a nuisance or danger in neighborhoods you know there's population issues. Man has created the issues with his behaviors, but not taking out 25% of the doe population back then would have been inhumane. Hunters provide this service.

                                Believe me, both sides know the game is on. Man meets animal with his knowledge, skills and resources on the animal's home field. If they stop harvesting wild boars in Hawaii, the animals will destroy some of the most pristine beauty on earth as they starve. On Maui you can take as many Axis deer as you want, no limits. They are destructive, overpopulated, ruining crops, and starving in paradise.

                                Exotic giant bambis and the best venison on earth:

                                That is reasonable... you'd have to meet some of the hunters I know... you'd get where I'm coming from... I realize that plenty of people use humane applications to their hunting... Just totally not my thing... in the world of choosing what I'd like to do and not...

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