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  • #16
    Great writeup there, Griff.
    http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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    • #17
      Great rant, Griff.

      You probably could have stopped at the quote below or broken this up into two posts because the first reply seemed to miss:

      When I say "Don't eat carbs," I mainly mean starchy carbs. I mean carbs that are going to spike your blood sugar. I mean potatoes, other tubers, grains, most fruit, legumes, sugars, candy, maple syrup, honey, most liquid dairy. I mean stuff that breaks down into fructose and/or glucose and prompts an insulin spike. I mean stuff that jabs at your beta cells.
      That's advice I believe everyone should keep to with understandable differences in what makes people happy and how they handle a couple of the items.

      You and I seem to have similar carb counts and sources. 50 grams max, significantly lower most days, and near zero from your above list, save a little not too sweet fruit. But, I will cheat on rare occasions that call for it with items I feel enhance my quality of life. That could be wine. It could be cake and ice cream at my kid's birthday party. It could be pumpkin pie after Thanksgiving dinner. Maybe a hunk of good chocolate a Cuban cigar. I really don't know. But if being perfect adds a couple years to my life and enjoying some rare treats costs me a couple more -- I'm dying happy.

      No doubt you were misunderstood yesterday.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Metismomma View Post
        Tired, lightheaded, low energy...if I do get a spurt of energy, I feel almost hyper and will keep going as long as I don't stop. Once I stop moving, I crash. Maybe my blood sugar gets too low?
        I'll be able to tell you more later, trying another VLC carb day today since I don't work tonight. Be able to give you a better idea.
        That sounds more like the low-carb flu. That's not ketosis. That's your body having never adjusted to using fat for fuel.
        Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

        Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


        Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

        My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

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        • #19
          Long time lurker, and I tend to agree that everyone has different goals and their dietary intake should reflect how to meet those goals best. In context of the PB, no one on this form is advocating going our and eating pizza, pasta, beer, etc... on a routine basis. At the same time, it's not necessary for everyone to stay at or below 20g/day if they're needing to lose weight. You can't generalize that for everybody.



          I think this image explains it all.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Griff View Post
            Fine, all I ask is that you recognize that those of us who either a) are not athletes or b) are here to talk about diet, not workouts, do have to look at carbs as inherently bad. There's just no nutritional reason that anyone should eat carbs at all - they're not essential. The body can produce them from protein if it's necessary.

            I will admit that I do not see working out or exercise as anything other than a big, time-wasting hassle. I hate it. I hate sweating (I hate living where I live because it's hot and dry all the time), so extra exercise that isn't something I already have to do - like walk across campus - is not for me. I can't grok your attraction to it. Sorry.
            Well then maybe you should lift weights and see the light!

            Weight lifting improves insulin sensitivity = you can eat more carbs.
            ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><(( ((º>
            ><((((º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><((((º>¸.·´¯`·.¸¸><(( ((º>

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Rivvin View Post
              You are a massively obese individual who needs to drop hundreds of pounds.

              I am a performance athlete who pushes myself to the max. Who is more qualified to determine how many carbs I get and where I get them from?
              Why be a performance athlete? How is that Primal? Why bother? Grok didn't work out, and he didn't run marathons, and he didn't play sports. And why push yourself to the max? *shrug*

              My goal is 240. 160 sounds emaciated to me. I need to drop about another 80 pounds, not "hundreds" of pounds. Whether the insult was intentional or not, that was an insult.

              Look, my point was mostly to the people who think that being ripped and being a performance athlete is the Only Right Goal To Have. Frankly, I don't think it's the Only Right Goal To Have, and I just want those who think it is to lay off me and the others here who are here for blood sugar control and weight control and who really don't give a damn about being a performance athlete. Frankly, the performance athletes here tend to come across as pretty obnoxious and holier-than-thou, and I'm getting tired of it.
              Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

              Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


              Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

              My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by tfarny View Post
                You seem to be extremely stuck in the "if a lot is bad, then a little is also bad" mentality. I
                If you have damaged your pancreas - and if you're overweight/obese, or have high blood pressure, or have insulin resistance, then you have - then that is absolutely the case. At that point you no longer have spare beta cells to burn.
                Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

                Comment


                • #23
                  I have to say, I think your approach is a bit hardline. Your story of your family's history broke my heart, but I don't think there's a person in the world who's going to go diabetic because they ate too many vegetables.

                  And you might want to reevaluate your stance on exercise. Maybe it's not absolutely necessary for weightloss - but there's just a myriad of other benefits to it. If we're all trying to emulate "Grok's Lifestyle," I think we need to acknowledge that his life was not a sedentary one.
                  Last edited by JimA2985; 06-09-2010, 11:49 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rphlslv View Post
                    Well then maybe you should lift weights and see the light!

                    Weight lifting improves insulin sensitivity = you can eat more carbs.
                    I've tried weight-lifting. It's not for me. It makes me sweat. Forget it.

                    And why would I want to eat more of what caused my condition in the first place? "Work out, then you can eat more poison!" Yeah, THAT's convincing.
                    Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                    Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                    Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                    My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      It appears that human beings would be able to pull-off a diet rich in *good* carbs as long as they have not experienced diet-related metabolic issues in the past. Stephan Guyenet shows many examples in which some traditional societies achieve very good overall health in spite a high-ish ammount of dietary good carbs.

                      The way I see it, once one has suffered from metabolic syndrome, gut flora distrubances and other physiological issues resulting from the SAd, for example, it would be necessary to cut carbs dramatically in order to reverse the damages. It also seems unclear to what extent can we completely reverse the damage through diet and lifestyle. And the more damaged our physiology the more carb-intolerant we might get.

                      At the end, what we have is a broad mosaic of people exhibiting different degrees of carb-tolerance, and I guess everyone has to find it's own through experience. That being said, we can thrive perfectly with a *complete* lack of dietary carbohydrates. Therefore, if we do not need carbs to thrive, it would make sense to talk about thriving *in-spite* of carb intake.

                      @rphlslv: in theory, a fully keto-adapted body would be able to lift weights with no drawbacks in a VLC diet. I am not a lifter so can't talk by experience, but there is a ton of anecdotal evidence out there.
                      Last edited by SerialSinner; 06-09-2010, 11:49 AM.
                      “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
                      "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
                      "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Griff View Post
                        Why be a performance athlete? How is that Primal? Why bother? Grok didn't work out, and he didn't run marathons, and he didn't play sports. And why push yourself to the max? *shrug*

                        My goal is 240. 160 sounds emaciated to me. I need to drop about another 80 pounds, not "hundreds" of pounds. Whether the insult was intentional or not, that was an insult.

                        Look, my point was mostly to the people who think that being ripped and being a performance athlete is the Only Right Goal To Have. Frankly, I don't think it's the Only Right Goal To Have, and I just want those who think it is to lay off me and the others here who are here for blood sugar control and weight control and who really don't give a damn about being a performance athlete. Frankly, the performance athletes here tend to come across as pretty obnoxious and holier-than-thou, and I'm getting tired of it.

                        There is no way we are going to agree on this. If you do not even "grok" the concept of being an athlete, nothing I do or say is going to convince you otherwise even if I did have the desire to "convert" you.

                        I just wanted to point out that some people want to push themselves to the max. The awesome thing about humanity is that we are all different: That's about as primal as it gets.

                        edit: Fury is my hero

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                        • #27
                          agreed. grok would not survive if he wasnt fit enough to hunt/run/kill/fish, some type of movement. lifting heavy things and being physically fit is extremely primal.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Griff View Post
                            Why be a performance athlete? How is that Primal? Why bother? Grok didn't work out, and he didn't run marathons, and he didn't play sports. And why push yourself to the max? *shrug*

                            My goal is 240. 160 sounds emaciated to me. I need to drop about another 80 pounds, not "hundreds" of pounds. Whether the insult was intentional or not, that was an insult.

                            Look, my point was mostly to the people who think that being ripped and being a performance athlete is the Only Right Goal To Have. Frankly, I don't think it's the Only Right Goal To Have, and I just want those who think it is to lay off me and the others here who are here for blood sugar control and weight control and who really don't give a damn about being a performance athlete. Frankly, the performance athletes here tend to come across as pretty obnoxious and holier-than-thou, and I'm getting tired of it.
                            Seriously? Why would someone want to be an athlete? I don't know...I guess we should all follow your example and be fat and lazy (which is what you are). That would be ideal. It's jus something people are driven to do. To push ourselves to maximum of our human performance.

                            The only person here that needs to lay off anyway is you. You're the one demonizing carbs and criticizing other people for what amounts to being driven to be physically fit or better, and not fat and unattractive like yourself. You are the one with the holier than thou attitude.

                            Frankly I think you're just mad bro. You're mad at yourself. I would be too if I were you.
                            Check out my blog!

                            http://easternstrength.blogspot.com/

                            I like to throw, squat and pull heavy things for fun.

                            We're designed to be hunters and we're in a society of shopping. There's nothing to kill anymore, there's nothing to fight, nothing to overcome, nothing to explore. In that societal emasculation this everyman is created. ~David Fincher, director of Fight Club, interview with Gavin Smith, "Inside Out," Film Comment, Sep/Oct 1999

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by AntonG View Post
                              agreed. grok would not survive if he wasnt fit enough to hunt/run/kill/fish, some type of movement. lifting heavy things and being physically fit is extremely primal.
                              ^^This.

                              No Paleo humans didn't run marathons, but they were exerting themselves through play, hunting, surviving, killing things, etc. That was "working out".

                              Apparently physical exertion isn't Primal. Oh wait....
                              Check out my blog!

                              http://easternstrength.blogspot.com/

                              I like to throw, squat and pull heavy things for fun.

                              We're designed to be hunters and we're in a society of shopping. There's nothing to kill anymore, there's nothing to fight, nothing to overcome, nothing to explore. In that societal emasculation this everyman is created. ~David Fincher, director of Fight Club, interview with Gavin Smith, "Inside Out," Film Comment, Sep/Oct 1999

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                              • #30
                                grok was the ultimate performance athlete.......

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