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  • Carb flu/introduction period question

    Ive cut all the grains/dairy/sugars, dairy/sugars were already non existant but i was a big oatmeal eater and often ate whole wheat pasta. now im getting this flu that everyone is talking about. slept 8 hours last night and was still very sluggish this morning until i took down two bananas and like 4 clementines. that made me feel a million times better and now i have energy to get through the day.
    i love fruit and i dont wanna restrict it, doesnt seem natural to me to restrict something so nutritious. there are countries/islands that have fruit as a huge part of their diets and they are very healthy/primal/fit/etc. i also exercises very often, do brazilian jiujitsu, lift weights, play football.

    my question is, how do the carbs from fruit compare to those from carbs/dairy/simple sugars? should i cut fruit too and suffer this flu all the way through? maybe my body works better with an intake of fruit. fruit just seems like a perfectly primal food. does anyone have any experience with this?

    thanks in advance

  • #2
    I would add up those carbs if I were you. Of course you felt better, we're all junkies for the simple sugars, your body complained, you supplied.

    2 bananas =55 carbs
    4 clementines = 36 carbs

    Considering you've just started your day with a giant hit of sugar, you'll likely feel it later.

    As for the fruit, the sugars you find in them today are a lot higher than you would have found 5000 or even 10000 years ago. Humans have been breeding animals, vegetables and fruits for centuries for various characteristics. Also, that fruit likely would have been harder to find, not to mention already scavenged by animals and pretty much seasonal depending on where grock lived.

    That California strawberry you buy today, is not only about 10 times larger but many times sweeter than what you'd find growing wild even now.

    As for your question, your body does not distinguish between a spoonful of sugar and a spoonful of oats. It still breaks it down into its bit parts.
    SW: 235
    CW:220
    Rough start due to major carb WD.

    MWF: 1 hour run/walk, 1.5 hours in the gym - upper/lower and core
    Sat/Sun=Yard/house work, chasing kids, playing
    Family walk every night instead of everyone vegging in front of the TV
    Personal trainer to build muscle mass & to help meet goals

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    • #3
      You are eating healthy by cutting out the grains, so don't worry to much about the carbs from fruit. Unless you are gaining weight (body fat) from eating too much (very unlikely) or trying to get yourself into ketosis, slow burning sugars from fruit are fine in my opinion. Upping your veggie counts may help you to slow down on the fruit if it's a concern and don't over-do the fats. Don't think you'd want to be washing down the banana's with tablespoons of coconut oil if you know what i mean.

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      • #4
        very valid points. few more questions:

        what is an efficient way to get vitamins, phytos, minerals that are in fruit? vegetables contain different nutrients than fruit

        Mark's food pyramid has fruit sharing the bottom step with vegetables, this led me to believe that fruit still belongs as a staple in everyone's diet

        the carb curve shows a ceiling of 150 grams for weight maintenance. does this amount come into play later, after the initial Carb Flu period where you cut the carbs dramatically? im not looking to lose any weight, if anything i got very sick (stomach) not too long ago and im looking to gain 10-15 pounds of muscle that i lost back. can i use the 150 gram ceiling now? i dont understand and thats why I was looking to see how other people did this.

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        • #5
          oooo look what i just found.

          "Fructose has a very low glycemic index of 19 2, compared with 100 for glucose and 68 5 for sucrose."
          A Glycemic load of 2 is as low as it gets

          "Studies show that fructose consumed before a meal may even lessen the glycemic response of the meal"

          minimal spikes in blood sugar = less insulin production = im sticking to fruit
          Last edited by AntonG; 06-09-2010, 08:27 AM.

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          • #6
            Well, people here tend to have differing opinions, as you may have noticed. I think for you, if you're not looking to loose weight (as I am), fruit would be part of your regular diet, but I still wouldn't go overboard for the reasons that I had noted above. If you're going with the 150 carb max per day, you've already burned half that by breakfast. Vegetables are quite high in carbs as well, at least some of them. So, it can be a real balancing act. There were days where I thought I was being so strict with carbs, and went over my personal limit in JUST vegetables.

            Why not try this, sign up for sparkpeople or daily plate, they allow you to track your macronutrients to ensure you're getting enough of what you're looking for.

            Eat what you would consider normal (fitting in with the PB plan), but just track it all. Ensure your ratios are good protein/fats/carbs and then don't sweat it.

            For "me", I need to be quite strict with fruit as its a gateway drug for me. I'm trying to keep my carbs very low due to insulin resistance and the desire to loose weight, so I have a different take on things.
            SW: 235
            CW:220
            Rough start due to major carb WD.

            MWF: 1 hour run/walk, 1.5 hours in the gym - upper/lower and core
            Sat/Sun=Yard/house work, chasing kids, playing
            Family walk every night instead of everyone vegging in front of the TV
            Personal trainer to build muscle mass & to help meet goals

            Comment


            • #7
              will do, thanks so much!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                fructose has a low gycemic index (depending on the fruit) because it takes longer to get to the blood stream. this is because, unlike glucose which can be processed in the blood immediately -- fructose must go thru the liver first. it takes that much longer to get to your blood stream as a result and that is what bring the gi down. Regardless...It's highly glycating (causes free radicals/damaging) to the liver and other organs. Many believe, for this reason it's worse than glucose (the sugars in vegetables) Also today's fruit is grafted, not planted from seed. It is genetically forced to be sweeter and farmed to be bigger and less bitter than paleolic fruit. paleolic fruit was hard to find...we had to go gathering for a day....it was consumed in season and rarely - and was bitter and small. Humans enjoyed more of it in the fall, when more fruits were harvested (indigenous fruit) and that allowed for a modest fat pad that carried them through the winter.
                you can get every vitamin in mineral needed in vegetables that is found in fruit.
                GROK STAR

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                • #9
                  yes elorade -- +1 regarding "gateway" comment. ditto here.
                  GROK STAR

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                  • #10
                    My suggestion, stick to more lower sugar fruits when possible (berries) track your intake on a nutritional program for a few days to get a baseline, make sure you are getting enough protein and fats to offset the low carb flu, and see how you do. If you are not experiencing the full benefits of being primal for a few weeks (increased energy, needing less sleep, health improvements, muscle gain....etc), then circle back around to the fruit and see if you need to tweak your diet.

                    The idea that yes, island communities had more access to some fruits is probably true.....but as a percent of the population, how many had regular access to that? Most of the fruit would have been much less edible....like an apple tree was created from the crab apple and use to be very sour until modified (and it originated in central Asia). Sugar in any form was a treat and a rarity......even from fruit. Remember that a tomato and avocado are fruit too . For some reason we have come to associate fruit as sweet....which I think is far from the reality of most fruit several thousand years ago. Like the orange was originally cultivated and modified over thousands of years by China before migrating out about 1000 years ago.

                    One other aspect to consider, is the transportation of fruit. Personally, I try and look at the 'cost' of transport of my food and products before purchasing. Buying local when I can, reducing the distance between me and my food, etc. Because I live in the central US in a mountain region, most fruit for me is shipped at minimum a thousand miles. If I had lived here even 200 years ago....outside of berries, the fruit available to me would be minimal and very seasonal. I do not buy local 100%, but I am trying to be more aware and change habits over time.

                    The apple industry is over 10 billion a year world wide......where there is profit for a company, there is a chance for misleading information. I am not saying fruit is all bad, just be objective when reviewing studies and making decisions as you should for ANY food, even the primal suggestions
                    Erin
                    Daily Vlogs
                    Primal Pets Blog

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                    • #11
                      At this point in your journy, carbs are carbs, and they will prolong the low-carb flu because it's carb withdrawal symptoms. Suffer the flu; the longer you keep on feeding it with carbs, the longer it's going to last. Cut your carbs down to nothing and you'll get over it quicker.

                      Remember that fruit today is not the fruit that Grok ate. It's been engineered by grafting and cross-breeding so that it's super-sweet and essentially tree candy. It is not by any definition primal, and you should limit it severely. Get your carbs from non-starchy veggies (leafy greens, mostly). And up your fats to 70% of your calories because your body is still going to demand fuel.
                      Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                      Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                      Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                      My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

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                      • #12
                        You may shorten your adjustment by having some protein and fat with each fruit serving...giving your body some fuel for a longer period and decreasing an insulin spike which can happen with fruit too. Sounds like you have made some big changes already - Keep up the good work - this whole thing is a never-ending journey (adventure)!

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                        • #13
                          Fructose is used in lab rats to create insulin resistance. I have blood sugar issues and diabetes in my family, and I would take a cup of sucrose over a cup of fructose if forced to choose. Fructose goes to the liver where it's converted triglycerides. No thanks. It's causes fatty liver. I also concur with the addictive properties. You feel hungry more often when consuming it. It's a craving though, not true hunger. Like crack or nicotine, it does bring some relief.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AntonG View Post
                            oooo look what i just found.

                            "Fructose has a very low glycemic index of 19 2, compared with 100 for glucose and 68 5 for sucrose."
                            A Glycemic load of 2 is as low as it gets

                            "Studies show that fructose consumed before a meal may even lessen the glycemic response of the meal"

                            minimal spikes in blood sugar = less insulin production = im sticking to fruit
                            The glycemic index is not based on science and shouldn't be trusted any farther than you can throw your car.
                            Primal eating in a nutshell: If you are hungry, eat Primal food until you are satisfied (not stuffed). Then stop. Wait until you're hungry again. Repeat.

                            Looking for my Cholesterol Primer? Here it is: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...mer-(Attempt-2)


                            Ditch the scale!: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33283.html

                            My Success Story: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread30615.html

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              man, how dissapointing. im such a fruit lover.

                              so everyone here has suffered this flu and "broke through", and now feels 1000% better?

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