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  • Advanced Glycation End Products - AGEs

    I heard a radio interview about these a while back but wasn't too worried, thinking it was primarily things like sugars - particularly caramel - and coffee; and she mentioned high-temperature cooking. I vowed to stop frying stuff, but didn't.

    So when looking up oxidative damage to whey, when I came across AGEs again I was rather disturbed to see how some of our favorite primal foods rank very highly on the list.

    Re-inforcing yet again the need for variety - not overdoing a single food group - and traditional cooking methods such as stewing. (I'm rueing the YEARS that I spent making 'healthy' vegetarian stir fries! with olive oil which as you know has a low smoke point. ARGH!) (ugh and "dark-colored soda pop" - I lived on cola for aaaages...)

    I think I'll be looking to up the coconut and sweet potato, and include boiled fish and chicken, and slow cooked beef dishes, keeping fry-ups to occasional treats.

    Here's an informative link, though the food list is full of junk so of limited value.
    http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.co...-of-foods.html
    http://www.search.com/reference/Glycation

    Wikipedia mentions that Lipoic Acid may help prevent damage. And back to traditional foods - sources of Lipoic Acid include - kidney, heart, liver, spinach, broccoli, and yeast extract - though it does mention in still low levels and 'covalently bound'. I think I might consider getting some RLA supplement to consume on high-AGE days.

    This is all I've found out so far, anybody have any knowledge/references on the topic?

  • #2
    Seems to be the cooking that shoots the number up... But like you said I've heard of antioxidants playing a role in helping with them, another reason we need more antioxidants among other things nowadays then back then
    sigpic
    In Pursuit of Healthiness, Only to Achieve Happiness!: www.livingnotsurviving.com

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    • #3
      "Primal Body, Primal Mind" has a lot of info on AGE's and how to mitigate their effects (Carnosine, Trans-Resveratrol and Benfotiamine are the big supplelments).
      http://www.alternative-healthzine.co...r_Process.html

      From what I've read, fructose is the most glycating of all carbohydrates (and it's carbs, more than anything else, that glycate our cells) and a study of vegetarians vs. omnivores showed that the vegetarians had higher levels of AGE's:
      http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/s...-age-faster-2/

      Dermatologist Dr. Nicolas Perricone discovered this when he was researching why patients who ate more sugar had more aged skin than people who didn't. Glycation especially breaks down collagen and brain cells.

      Here is a fascinating article on Carnosine and aging with a picture of two lab rats (you can tell which one had the Carnosine!)
      http://www.satori-5.co.uk/word_artic...carnosine.html
      http://www.prettyinprimal.blogspot.com

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      • #4
        "The age-related glycation products that are usually blamed on sugar, are largely the result of peroxidation of the polyunsaturated fatty acids." So a diet very low in polyunsaturated fats and very high in saturated fats, with coconut oil being a significant source, is the best form of protection.

        http://raypeat.com/articles/articles...eration3.shtml

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        • #5
          From what I've gathered so far, there are two kinds of AGEs - exogenic and edogenic, the endogenic being created in the body from fructose, the exogenic already existing, primarily created by food. There seems to be some debate over whether the exogenic ones are actually absorbed by the body, so I'd have to think the primal low-carb minimal-fruit diet puts us streets ahead.

          It seems prudent to minimized the exogenic ones as far as possible.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by hazyjane View Post
            From what I've read, fructose is the most glycating of all carbohydrates (and it's carbs, more than anything else, that glycate our cells) and a study of vegetarians vs. omnivores showed that the vegetarians had higher levels of AGE's:
            http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/s...-age-faster-2/

            Dermatologist Dr. Nicolas Perricone discovered this when he was researching why patients who ate more sugar had more aged skin than people who didn't. Glycation especially breaks down collagen and brain cells.
            Yup. In spite of my sun protective behaviors, my skin showed major aging from 35-39 b/c of my chronic sugar intake.....chronic as in all day long I ate sugar. my sister, who is much less sun protective and smoked forEVER but never eats grains/sugar, looks the same age as I do - but she's 51 and I'm just 40.

            There's no doubt in my mind it was glycation caused damage;/



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            • #7
              I confess, I've stumbled across AGEs a lot in my reading and most of it whooshed right over my head. I get it though. Cook at lower temps. I'm okay with that. I grill a lot and adjusting for this is pretty easy by cooking with more indirect heat. Somewhere Dr. Ayers at Cooling Inflammation said that "high blood sugar causes AGEs". So again, blackened catfish or not, sugars and grains are a bigger issue I think.

              Arthritis and AGEs
              Last edited by Grol; 06-06-2010, 04:07 PM.

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              • #8
                Benfotiamine would be worth taking just for reducing glycation.

                Check the studies:

                http://www.benfotiamine.org/FAQ.htm

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by cillakat View Post
                  Yup. In spite of my sun protective behaviors, my skin showed major aging from 35-39 b/c of my chronic sugar intake.....chronic as in all day long I ate sugar. my sister, who is much less sun protective and smoked forEVER but never eats grains/sugar, looks the same age as I do - but she's 51 and I'm just 40.

                  There's no doubt in my mind it was glycation caused damage;/

                  Ugh! I know! I'm going to be 33 soon and when I hit 30, my skin took such a nosedive! Some of it was from low estrogen and the rest, I'm positive, was from my vegetarian diet of 16 years (including my 5 month stint in green smoothie and medjool dates and agave nectarville;-).
                  Now I'm working on collagen repair and glycation prevention. I wish I had somehow known!
                  http://www.prettyinprimal.blogspot.com

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                  • #10
                    Try acidification

                    This is all I've found out so far, anybody have any knowledge/references on the topic?[/QUOTE]

                    Yes, AGEs don't seem to work out too well in the paleo/primal diet world. In terms of the meats (one of the big issues I'm guessing) you can reduce the formation of AGEs by marinating in vinegar or lemon juice. I haven't looked into the biochemistry behind this, but apparently marinating meat helps keep it healthy. And of course soups and stews don't increase AGE production and are a great way to get bone broth nutrients. Meats are inherently on the high end of the AGE scale, but minimizing the additional effect of cooking helps moderate it.

                    Here is a good article on the topic:
                    http://marshfieldceliac.weebly.com/u...reduction1.pdf

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                    • #11
                      Unfortunately, most people fail to distinguish between endogenous and exogenous AGEs when discussing the topic, which is a pretty huge oversight.

                      And it's the endogenous AGEs that we should really be concerned with. We know for certain that this leads to disease, as it is the primary mechanism by which diabetes leads to tissue destruction (high levels of glucose lead to protein glycation in multiple tissues). There's really no good evidence to get too concerned about exogenous sources, imo.

                      Here's a study comparing plasma AGE levels in vegetarians and omnivores, showing greater levels in the former. In other words, despite higher intake of exogenous AGEs, the omnivores had lower levels of protein glycation (quite possibly from lower fructose consumption, which the article suggests).

                      Without a doubt, AGEs are likely a significant factor in multiple disease processes. I recently talked about their role in Alzheimer's disease. However, if our goal is to minimize endogenous AGE production, then avoidance of sugar and n-6 pufa at this point appears to be the most logical strategy. There's little in the way of solid evidence at this point to justify avoiding high temperature cooking.
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Helen in Oz View Post
                        From what I've gathered so far, there are two kinds of AGEs - exogenic and edogenic, the endogenic being created in the body from fructose, the exogenic already existing, primarily created by food. There seems to be some debate over whether the exogenic ones are actually absorbed by the body, so I'd have to think the primal low-carb minimal-fruit diet puts us streets ahead.

                        It seems prudent to minimized the exogenic ones as far as possible.
                        Are you, by chance, a Community watcher?

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                        • #13
                          This has me confused!! I thought that meat was a superb source of carnosine - which reduces AGE's. So I eat a lot of meat. And my skin has improved, which I take to be a marker.

                          I shall be 60 this year, and I have hardly a line or wrinkle - people routinely assume that I am about 10 years less than I am. The fine lines which used to be beside my eyes have virtually gone over the last 2 years of high meat / fat consumption. So I don't think meat can cause too many AGEs!!

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                          • #14
                            Interesting thread. People generally estimate my age to be 10-15 years younger. I've eaten low sugar/fructose for about 18 years, with a lot of vegetables, eggs, dairy and oily fish. I don't eat meat.

                            I think my skin looks better on primal as I'm eating more saturated fat, plus I've cut down on PUFAs - I used to eat a fair bit of sunflower oil.

                            I expect the primal diet can mitigate the AGEs in meat.

                            I do shallow fry a lot of my food in butter and coconut oil, on a low heat - I'm wondering if that's a significant source of exogenous AGES for me.
                            F 5 ft 3. HW: 196 lbs. Primal SW (May 2011): 182 lbs (42% BF)... W June '12: 160 lbs (29% BF) (UK size 12, US size 8). GW: ~24% BF - have ditched the scales til I fit into a pair of UK size 10 bootcut jeans. Currently aligning towards 'The Perfect Health Diet' having swapped some fat for potatoes.

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                            • #15
                              Chicken not the answer to AGEs...

                              Originally posted by Helen in Oz View Post
                              I heard a radio interview about these a while back but wasn't too worried, thinking it was primarily things like sugars - particularly caramel - and coffee; and she mentioned high-temperature cooking. I vowed to stop frying stuff, but didn't.

                              So when looking up oxidative damage to whey, when I came across AGEs again I was rather disturbed to see how some of our favorite primal foods rank very highly on the list.

                              Re-inforcing yet again the need for variety - not overdoing a single food group - and traditional cooking methods such as stewing. (I'm rueing the YEARS that I spent making 'healthy' vegetarian stir fries! with olive oil which as you know has a low smoke point. ARGH!) (ugh and "dark-colored soda pop" - I lived on cola for aaaages...)

                              I think I'll be looking to up the coconut and sweet potato, and include boiled fish and chicken, and slow cooked beef dishes, keeping fry-ups to occasional treats.

                              Here's an informative link, though the food list is full of junk so of limited value.
                              AGE Content of Foods
                              Metasearch Search Engine - Search.com

                              Wikipedia mentions that Lipoic Acid may help prevent damage. And back to traditional foods - sources of Lipoic Acid include - kidney, heart, liver, spinach, broccoli, and yeast extract - though it does mention in still low levels and 'covalently bound'. I think I might consider getting some RLA supplement to consume on high-AGE days.

                              This is all I've found out so far, anybody have any knowledge/references on the topic?
                              I'd be interested in knowing where to find a conclusive list of AGEs but definitely chicken isn't a low AGE food....look at this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S91x9kTo1aI Chicken boiled was safer but in general chicken was in the top 14 HIGH AGE foods. I also totally doubt you on Whey. Nothing primal about whey. Not consumed at all by paleolithic era people.....and has to qualify as a highly processed and modern food. Watch this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dw1MuD9EP4 he talks about AGEs and milk products and byproducts.

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