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  • Help me get started, please!

    I've worked out my P/C/F ratio.

    I lift weights 4 days a week. And I walk _a lot_

    I'm 6'7, 260lbs, and 25% body fat. My goal is to cut fat down.

    I've worked myself out to about:

    Carbs: 180
    Fat: 107
    Protein: 180
    For a total of 2400 calories.

    I know that 2400 calories puts me at around 1lb/week weight loss.
    And less than 120 carbs or so kills my energy lifting. I've done the ketosis and low carb thing before, not into it while I'm this active.

    Next issue:

    I need to do this as cheap as possible. I realize cheese and rice aren't super, but I expect I'll be eating a lot of cheese, rice, and chicken breast.

    Any specific suggestions in my scenario? Thanks.

    I can't stand tuna. But I do tolerate canned salmon. I'd like to eat for under $10/day if possible. Or less.

  • #2
    Welcome! Those macros should be fine. One concern is that chicken breast and rice are low in micronutrients, which are taxed during training. Potatoes & plantains are good for muscle recovery and inexpensive.

    Canned seafood is very handy--try the others too. I put mackerel on salads and make quick chowders with clam + potato + coconut milk. Beef can be economical too--check sales flyers for big roasts then pull/shred into sandwich bag portions.

    I wouldn't use cheese as a core food (the good stuff is expensive ya?). If it's just for calories I'd do buttered vegetables (cabbage, onion, carrot)
    37//6'3"/185

    My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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    • #3
      I'm sure I won't be the first...

      it's not really adhering to the "idea" of a primal life is it? I know you said you've done the low carb thing before but the whole idea is to reduce carbs and up good fats and proteins. I'd aim for maximum 100g of carbs whilst dieting. as for the lack of energy I'm sorry to say it's just crap. I'm a competitive powerlifter and also keep physically active (that's right not just a fat bloke in chuck Taylor's) - you don't need excessive amounts of carbs. especially from rice?!?

      if you struggle because of lack of carbs then you need to up fats and protein. overall calories.

      cheap stuff?

      multi buy chicken breasts - or buy the whole thing! learn to butcher.
      seasonal veg offers (and fruits)
      look in baking section for cheap nuts.
      olive oil, fish oil, canned tuna.

      I just don't believe that carbs play such a role when all aspects are looked at.






      Sent from my iPhone using Marks Daily Apple Forum
      Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted. Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by TheReloader View Post
        I've worked out my P/C/F ratio.

        I lift weights 4 days a week. And I walk _a lot_

        I'm 6'7, 260lbs, and 25% body fat. My goal is to cut fat down.

        I've worked myself out to about:

        Carbs: 180
        Fat: 107
        Protein: 180
        For a total of 2400 calories.

        I know that 2400 calories puts me at around 1lb/week weight loss.
        And less than 120 carbs or so kills my energy lifting. I've done the ketosis and low carb thing before, not into it while I'm this active.

        Next issue:

        I need to do this as cheap as possible. I realize cheese and rice aren't super, but I expect I'll be eating a lot of cheese, rice, and chicken breast.

        Any specific suggestions in my scenario? Thanks.

        I can't stand tuna. But I do tolerate canned salmon. I'd like to eat for under $10/day if possible. Or less.
        So basically you have decided to follow some kind of bodybuilder cutting diet (with cheese) and think that somehow it is the same as the Primal Blueprint? The Primal Blueprint involves choosing foods with maximum nutritional value and avoiding foods that are harmful. It's low carb for people with metabolic syndrome but not for people like you. Diet is only one tiny piece of the Primal Blueprint. There is also the sunshine, the walking, the lift heavy things (you have these two), the sprinting, the connections with real human beings, and the play.

        You're just on a regular diet.
        Female, 5'3", 50, Max squat: 202.5lbs. Max deadlift: 225 x 3.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by TheReloader View Post

          Next issue:

          I need to do this as cheap as possible. I realize cheese and rice aren't super, but I expect I'll be eating a lot of cheese, rice, and chicken breast..
          This part makes me cry.

          Eat the whole damn chicken .....skin, joints n all. Cheaper, tastes better, and better for you than just the breast. Buy roasts with the bone n joints still in and use a slow cooker. Great food, low cost. I really don't watch macros or calories. That stuff just ends up where it should be if you eat nose to tail and stick to being a meat centric omnivore. Read up here though:

          How to Succeed with the Primal Blueprint | Mark's Daily Apple

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          • #6
            Milk and potatoes are both cheap.

            I also doubt you'll lose 1 lb consistently each week just by eating 2400 calories.
            My opinions and some justification

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            • #7
              how is that primal?

              eating a certain number of cals will NEVER guarantee a regular weight loss of x-number-of-pounds per week. sorry. it simply is not that cut and dry.

              further, chicken breast, rice and supermarket cheese are ALL nutrient poor. buy sacks of potatoes and bunches of bananas if you want cheap carbs. carrots and cabbage are super cheap this time of year too. do you not eat eggs? look for hunks of meat that need slow-cooking and make a big batch of braised meat. it's cheaper and a time-saver. shop in ethnic markets and look for oogly bits that you can stew for cheap money too.
              As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

              Ernest Hemingway

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              • #8
                I know that the last posts have been a bit harsh but it was asking for it based you're in a primal way of life forum and as shbikes said "it's a regular diet".

                just focus in what the PB is about and of you don't want to follow that then look at other forums that can offer that advice. I totalled 532.5 kg today - 192.5kg squat. 110kg bench as 230kg deadlift - all fasted and without caffeine or stimulants. it can be done I promise!


                Sent from my iPhone using Marks Daily Apple Forum
                Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted. Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world.

                Comment


                • #9
                  without this spiralling into a low-carb or high-carb debate, op's proposed menu is in no way primal. most of us are on budgets. i certainly am and it would never occur to me to make those foods staples of any sort.
                  As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                  Ernest Hemingway

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If you're on a budget, unless the cheese you're talking about is cottage cheese, chances are it's as nasty as any other artificial/processed food in a regular grocery store. That said, Primal has been referred to as Paleo with a side of dairy, so it's not a forbidden food. Sorry to say, but good cheeses are generally as expensive per pound as meat. Those big orange blocks are more like cheez food product.

                    Though the meat (and sometimes the heart and liver if they're included in the body cavity) of a whole chicken is totally more delicious and nutritious than just a boneless, skinless breast, to find out whether a whole chicken will save you money, do the following:
                    • buy a whole chicken
                    • note its total weight and the total price of the chicken
                    • roast up the chicken
                    • before you throw away anything you don't eat (bones, fat at the bottom of the roasting pan, etc.,), weigh it
                    • deduct the weight of the stuff you'll throw away from the original weight of the chicken - call this net weight
                    • divide the total price of the chicken by the net weight - this is your "real" price per pound of edible product
                    • compare that to boneless, skinless breasts to see which is the better deal


                    I once did that for a whole turkey, and though the price of turkey at the time was so cheap that it didn't dissuade me from buying whole turkeys, I found that the weight of the stuff I threw away was almost 35% of the total product. Chickens may not be as wasteful.

                    White rice is okay, but just okay. It certainly isn't nutrient dense.

                    IOW, if you're presenting chicken breasts, grocery store cheese, and rice as the bulk of your diet, though these foods can certainly be part of Primal eating, they're not the best nutrition of primal or paleo foods. Want low fat? Try beef or chicken liver. Eat some eggs. If I were looking for protein in a food, I'd look at pork loin. It's lean, chock full of protein, and very often on sale. Use a potato or a sweet potato in place of your rice occasionally. Since you like canned salmon, eat that once a week.

                    I think people are being hard on you because what you're proposing with your lack of diversity is subsistence rather than eating to thrive.

                    Also, go to the blog and search "definitive guide" and "shopping list." Those should give you some starting points.
                    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

                    B*tch-lite

                    Who says back fat is a bad thing? Maybe on a hairy guy at the beach, but not on a crab.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Don't waste that chicken carcass - throw that sucker in the crock pot.
                      What have you done today to make you feel Proud?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, cottage cheese. Not blocks of "cheese."

                        Let me tell you the novel I avoided typing in my first post when I meant I'd tried keto/low carb before.

                        I weighed 240lbs.
                        My cholesterol was at the high end of acceptable.
                        My doctor was concerned about my blood sugar.
                        I needed a change.

                        I bought into the high fat thing big time. At one point, my carbs were around 50 a day, almost entirely from green veggies. My normal diet ended up around 90-100 carbs per day.

                        The types of food I ate were: Everything from sirloin ribeye steak cooked in a little butter, tons of salmon, tuna (not canned, wild caught.) I went through _a lot_ of quality eggs. Enough chicken thighs and dark meat turkey to kill an alligator. Ate broccoli, cauliflower, kale, beets, asparagus in sometimes excess amounts. I didn't track calories often, but I did a few times and usually ended up around 200-280g protein and tons of fat. And eating like that cost me a fortune. Pounding a 20oz ribeye at $28/lb 3-4x a week adds up.

                        ...And I kept waiting for it to pay off. And after the "carb flu" came and went, I actually started feeling pretty good. But it kinda went downhill from there. I started having issues with digestion (alleviated a bit with betaine and peppermint oil) and about 30 minutes into any strength workout, I'd get nauseous.

                        Doing any sort of cardio (Mostly boxing, or riding a bike at max speeds for short distances) I'd get winded real quick, and smell like I just took a bath in Mr. Clean...

                        I started getting slowly weaker, while gaining weight. I dialed the activity way back and ate a little less food. I think I ate like this, 95% strictly, for nearly a year.

                        I got another blood test... My blood sugar was fantastic, actually. Big turnaround.
                        My cholesterol, otoh, was, as my doctor put it "alarming." It went straight to shit.

                        I believe I was 250-255 at the time.

                        That pretty much ended that streak right then and there. Felt very defeated.
                        I fell off the wagon and pretty much ate 90% fast food for a while. Then started counting calories and eating "traditionally healthy" about 80% of the time.

                        Had a hard time building any strength, because still, I've always eaten naturally low carb. Getting as many as 180 carbs a day was unusual for me even before I started with low carb/keto. Onec I was convinced to up it to 180, I found strength started coming pretty quickly.

                        Anyway. Got another blood test, blood sugar is ok, and cholesterol is way down.

                        TL;DR: The high fat thing didn't really work out so well for me. If the high fat thing truly is a staple, then I do appreciate the honesty in the previous replies.

                        Of course, maybe I'd went waaaay overboard with fat.
                        Last edited by TheReloader; 11-08-2014, 09:27 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by TheReloader View Post
                          TL;DR: The high fat thing didn't really work out so well for me. If the high fat thing truly is a staple, then I do appreciate the honesty in the previous replies.

                          Of course, maybe I'd went waaaay overboard with fat.
                          Ya, view each nutrient (such as fat & carbohydrate) on a hill-shaped curve. The first dose or two will always find a good home, the next dose is neutral, then finally the diminishing returns and possible harm appear. There's seldom a benefit to more more more of anything and (assuming unprocessed food) our pleasure sense can be a helpful guide.
                          37//6'3"/185

                          My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Are you just trying to lose weight or "improve your cholesterol?" The cholesterol numbers mean nothing -- could be good or bad. The important numbers are HDL and triglycerides. Do you recall what those were? Regardless, the more paleo your diet and lifestyle the better your numbers will get.

                            If you are doing any kind of intense lifting lifting four times a week, you are probably close on carbs -- but potatoes would be a lot more nutritious than rice -- convenient too -- just pop them in the miicrowave. I would also second eggs -- lots of eggs. If there is a Costco close by you can get leg of lamb for l$4.50-5.00/# and ground that for patties, meatloaf, etc.

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                            • #15
                              or went way overboard with protein, hence the ammonia smell oozing out of your sweat.

                              skew the ratios however makes you feel best, but you need better and more nutrient-dense food than chicken and rice: meat, fish, eggs. potatoes, carrots. fruit.

                              with ruminants, eating tougher/fattier cuts that need braising will save money, like shanks and shoulders. with fish, eat lower on the food chain, like mackerel and herring.
                              As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

                              Ernest Hemingway

                              Comment

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