Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Do you drink coffee?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    Originally posted by mikekola View Post
    Regardless of what you say about it and what you compare it to, that's a STIMULANT and a DRUG, that crosses blood/brain barrier and has a direct effect on various receptors in brain. It affects everybody in the same way from the physiological perspective. Period. There is a ton of scientific literature about that.
    It is a known fact that some people tolerate alcohol better than others.

    It is also a known fact that simple fermentation in your gut produces about "one drink's worth" of alcohol a day.

    Thresholds may vary, but everyone can tolerate alcohol. If you couldn't, you'd be dead. This is probably why the "one drink a day" crowd tends to see medicinal benefits and the people that drink multiple drinks a day see diminishing returns.

    There is nothing wrong with caffeine. You're taking a group of already unhealthy people who overconsume caffeine and have a bad reaction, then applying it to everyone and saying caffeine is a "stimulant" and a "drug." Please, it's embarrassing.

    All food is a stimulant. It gives you energy and speeds up your metabolism. Also, explain to me how caffeine is a "drug."
    drug
    noun \ˈdrəg\

    : a substance that is used as a medicine

    : an illegal and often harmful substance (such as heroin, cocaine, LSD, or marijuana) that people take for pleasure

    Drug - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
    Ah, wait, but:

    "'Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." - Hippocrates

    So, by definition, either all food on Earth is a drug, or caffeine isn't a drug because it isn't illegal. Everything is harmful if you exceed the threshold of toxicity. Is sunlight a drug, too, because it is often a "harmful substance" if you get too much of it?

    Caffeine is a perfectly natural substance incidental to real food. It is not unique to coffee. Your argument is illogical and ridden with fallacious statements.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
      You're not consuming 7 trees worth of coffee. You're consuming the water the coffee beans soak in. You're discarding the beans. Your entire point is a fallacy, and it would be like me boiling a 10 pound beef roast in the pot of water, drinking the broth, throwing the entire roast away and claiming I just consumed 10 pounds of beef.
      That's not the point I was making at all - by "consuming", I effectively meant "using". It is highly unlikely that all humans throughout history would have had access to the quantity of coffee beans necessary to feed a daily addiction (i.e. 7 trees' worth annually). Some, maybe, but not all.

      Ultimately, my point is that while most people should be able to tolerate an occasional cup, one cup a day is by no means a moderate dose for everyone, given that in nature, a cup every single day would be unlikely for most.

      Does this mean I think one cup a day is a ridiculous amount of coffee that should be considered toxic? No way. Again, many people do fine with that amount and sometimes even more. But for some (such as myself), that amount is enough to produce moodiness and weird hunger/sleep issues, and it has nothing to do with underlying health problems.
      Last edited by tarek; 04-25-2014, 11:41 AM.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post

        There is nothing wrong with caffeine. You're taking a group of already unhealthy people who overconsume caffeine and have a bad reaction, then applying it to everyone and saying caffeine is a "stimulant" and a "drug." Please, it's embarrassing.

        All food is a stimulant. It gives you energy and speeds up your metabolism. Also, explain to me how caffeine is a "drug."
        I'm not saying there's anything *wrong* with caffeine. Just saying it's not what you claimed it to be in the first place.
        If you can't see the difference between macro-nutrients and psychoactive substances, particularly CNS stimulants, well- what can I do.

        Caffeine is a perfectly natural substance incidental to real food. It is not unique to coffee. Your argument is illogical and ridden with fallacious statements.
        It's kind of ironic and funny to what extend you can bend the logic when it comes to justifying stimulants- considering how logical you usually are.
        Amphetamine, ephedrine, marijuana and tons of other substances are also natural and found in real food. Still- they are CNS stimulants, just like caffeine, just more powerful and less predictable. The fact something can be found in nature is, IMHO, not enough to justify consumption and claiming it "healthful" just because you feel "better" after *initial* consumption.

        Speaking of initial take-in; the first cup of coffee after a long caffeine-free period always feels great. It's what happens when you are accustomed to your dose that really matters.

        Side note- according to the dictionary definition you provided, it should be enough to de-legalize caffeine to call it a "drug". What if one day someone does it?

        Comment


        • #79
          I just quit coffee last week. I've been struggling with mood swings, irritability, insomnia, depression, etc. I was drinking 4-6 cups a day on top of black and green tea. I have to say that the change has been tremendous. I have less joint pain, I'm sleeping better, and my moods are much more stable. I feel a bit slower but that's a good thing- my mind was constantly racing. I've also noticed that my skin is less dry and broken out. Of course these are very nonspecific things but I do think they are related somehow to my coffee intake. I still have a cup or two of green or black tea but I've switched to water mostly. In a week or two I'm going to cut out tea, too. I've always been very reactive to caffeine- I get wired and jittery even after a cup or two of coffee. So it's quite possible that I'm one of those exceptional cases that just can't handle it in larger quantities.
          Love, peace, and bacon grease.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by tarek View Post
            That's not the point I was making at all - by "consuming", I effectively meant "using". It is highly unlikely that all humans throughout history would have had access to the quantity of coffee beans necessary to feed a daily addiction (i.e. 7 trees' worth annually). Some, maybe, but not all.
            It's also highly unlikely that humans would consume fresh meat every day historically. Most traditional societies are low protein because it's so hard to kill animals and so easy to dig up roots, tubers and pick fruits.

            Historical does not equal optimal.

            Originally posted by tarek View Post
            Ultimately, my point is that while most people should be able to tolerate an occasional cup, one cup a day is by no means a moderate dose for everyone, given that in nature, a cup every single day would be unlikely for most.
            Steak and eggs every day would not be possible in nature. Only in our modern, industrialized society. But it's great for us. You're drawing conclusions based on nothing but a gut feeling, and I disagree.

            Originally posted by tarek View Post
            Does this mean I think one cup a day is a ridiculous amount of coffee that should be considered toxic? No way. Again, many people do fine with that amount and sometimes even more. But for some (such as myself), that amount is enough to produce moodiness and weird hunger/sleep issues, and it has nothing to do with underlying health problems.
            I'm going to continue drinking it every day at work. I feel better mentally and physically. That alone is enough proof for me. If it is a natural product that makes me feel good, there's probably something to it.
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

            Comment


            • #81
              A lot of wild plants have potent caffeine-like chemicals, and Neanderthal sites are often replete with mounds of these mildly psychoactive plants. We have, for a LONG time, enjoyed a buzz from natural sources. As for whether that is biologically beneficial or detrimental to specific people in this day and age is almost impossible to test. But if it helps you stay sane, and we see people around in their 80's and 90's (not exceptions like the few smokers and heavy drinkers who manage to escape statistics, mind you - but vast swaths of perfectly healthy folks) who regularly do it without any trouble, then it's probably very safe.
              Crohn's, doing SCD

              Comment


              • #82
                Hell, apples have cyanide in their seeds.

                So does this make cyanide safe for us?
                "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

                Comment


                • #83
                  I'm not doubting the safety of caffeine, nor am I doubting that many of our ancestors happily consumed it when available (note that caffeine =/= coffee). I believe caffeine to be perfectly safe in sensible dosages. Like I've already said, I think a few cups of coffee per day is fine - what I take issue with is the notion that if you can't tolerate one cup per day, you're somehow unhealthy or have underlying health issues.

                  I've been eating paleo for four years and have no real health issues to complain of. I've been experimenting with coffee for about three years. My personal threshold seems to be 2 - 3 cups per week. If I make it a daily habit, the same problems pop up regardless of my diet/lifestyle habits - moodiness, mid-afternoon slumps, inconsistent sleep, and if I stop, withdrawal symptoms.

                  When I remove coffee, all of these clear up. I have an extremely hard time believing this is indicative of some other health problem.
                  Last edited by tarek; 04-25-2014, 10:31 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    There are about 3-4 things I totally love about coffee.
                    appologize
                    1. Its totally adictive.....truth!
                    2. It totally works to improve your cognition (in the short term)
                    3. BIG INCREASE to fatty acid oxidation....BOOM
                    4. Meh...maybe just three.

                    Contrary to stupid belief....It does not counter stress or improve health as a function of thyroid. LOL...Please show me something....anything!!! that holds this as truth. Hell anything you got in this regard would probably work for Coke or Meth as well! Rock it!

                    That said...I like me some uppers every now and then(in my case only caffeine as I am a law abiding citizen). And I dont apologize for it eitiher. Do your drugs. Except the fact that your goverment still dictates which drugs you can or can not do. They let you have caffeine. Ain't that nice of your nanny?
                    Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-25-2014, 10:51 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Then again, some people are said to be "slow metabolizers" of caffeine. Genetic? Or underlying metabolic issue? They are pretty confident it's genetic. If so, then - yes, a cup of coffee would stay in your system for days and could make chronic trouble.
                      Crohn's, doing SCD

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        So srry the thread is rlly long and didnt read it all, but is feeling more alert from coffee necessarily a good or bad thing? It seems like you are relying on caffeine, a stimulant, for energy. Also does coffee actually raise cortisol or is that a cw thing?

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by Neckhammer View Post
                          Contrary to stupid belief....It does not counter stress or improve health as a function of thyroid. LOL...Please show me something....anything!!! that holds this as truth. Hell anything you got in this regard would probably work for Coke or Meth as well! Rock it!
                          Does coffee consumption protect against thyroid disease?

                          In a case-control, serially matched study, 70 patients with thyroid cancer, 55 with benign thyroid disease and 71 controls were interviewed in regard to a variety of socioeconomic, social and dietary characteristics. Statistical analysis revealed a strikingly negative (p less than 0.05) association between benign and malignant thyroid disease and consumption of coffee. After adjustment for possible confounding variables, the association remained statistically significant. The mechanism by which coffee consumption may play a protective role against development of benign or malignant thyroid neoplasms may be the stimulatory effect of caffeine on the intracellular cyclic AMP production, which is known to inhibit cell growth.

                          Does coffee consumption protect agai... [Acta Chir Scand. 1989 Jun-Jul] - PubMed - NCBI

                          Association of coffee and caffeine intake with the risk of Parkinson disease.

                          During follow-up, 102 men were identified as having PD. Age-adjusted incidence of PD declined consistently with increased amounts of coffee intake, from 10.4 per 10,000 person-years in men who drank no coffee to 1.9 per 10,000 person-years in men who drank at least 28 oz/d (P<.001 for trend). Similar relationships were observed with total caffeine intake (P<.001 for trend) and caffeine from non-coffee sources (P=.03 for trend). Consumption of increasing amounts of coffee was also associated with lower risk of PD in men who were never, past, and current smokers at baseline (P=.049, P=.22, and P=.02, respectively, for trend). Other nutrients in coffee, including niacin, were unrelated to PD incidence. The relationship between caffeine and PD was unaltered by intake of milk and sugar.
                          CONCLUSIONS:

                          Our findings indicate that higher coffee and caffeine intake is associated with a significantly lower incidence of PD. This effect appears to be independent of smoking. The data suggest that the mechanism is related to caffeine intake and not to other nutrients contained in coffee. JAMA. 2000;283:2674-2679.

                          Association of coffee and caffeine intake wit... [JAMA. 2000 May 24-31] - PubMed - NCBI

                          Hypothyroidism concealed by Parkinson's disease

                          AIMS:

                          Although it is commonly recognised that diseases of the thyroids can simulate extrapyramidal disorders, a review of the causes of Parkinsonism in the neurology literature shows that they are not usually mentioned or, if so, only very briefly. The development of hypothyroidism in a patient with Parkinson s disease can go undetected, since the course of both diseases can involve similar clinical features. Generally speaking there is always an insistence on the need to conduct a thyroidal hormone study in any patient with symptoms of Parkinson, but no emphasis is put on the need to continue to rule out dysthyroidism throughout the natural course of the disease, in spite of the fact that the concurrence of both pathological conditions can be high and that, in the same way hypothyroidism can simulate Parkinson s disease, the latter can also conceal hypothyroidism.
                          CASE REPORT:

                          We report the case of a female patient who had been suffering from Parkinson s disease for 17 years and started to present on off fluctuations that did not respond to therapy. Hypothyroidism was observed and the hormone replacement therapy used to resolve the problem allowed the Parkinsonian fluctuations to be controlled.
                          CONCLUSIONS:

                          We believe that it is very wise to suspect hypothyroidism in patients known to be suffering from Parkinson s disease, and especially so in cases where the clinical condition worsens and symptoms no longer respond properly to antiparkinsonian treatment. These observations stress the possible role played by thyroid hormones in dopaminergic metabolism and vice versa.

                          [Hypothyroidism concealed by Parkinson'... [Rev Neurol. 2002 Oct 16-31] - PubMed - NCBI
                          Yep, no data. Coffee rapidly increases the metabolic rate, thyroid controls the metabolic rate...how can there be ANY DATA out there that coffee positively effects thyroid?

                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            Yep, no data. Coffee rapidly increases the metabolic rate, thyroid controls the metabolic rate...how can there be ANY DATA out there that coffee positively effects thyroid?
                            Wow man....that is sooooooo WEAK! If thats really all you got then let me just echo....



                            I suppose any stimulant functions through positively effecting the thyroid by that logic. Could there not possibly be several other hormones at play? Would adrenaline work?

                            And is caffeine a drug. Yes.

                            A pharmacologically active (drug-like) dose is 100 milligrams (mg). A 5-ounce cup of brewed coffee contains between 110 and 150 mg, a cup of instant coffee has 64 to 124 mg, a cup of brewed tea has between 20 and 90 mg, and a 12-ounce glass of cola has about 60 mg. A glass of chocolate milk has very little caffeine-only about 7 mg.
                            Unless you take issue with Harvard Medical Schools definition I think that says it.

                            Just some unbiased info from people who treat these patients functionally. I'm sure you have heard of functional medicine. Well I agree with that approach when it comes to thyroid dysfunction. Its not quite as easy as just telling everyone to eat more sugar and drink moar coffee, but oh well....

                            Thyroid experts also advise eating foods with thyroid-friendly vitamins and minerals, such as vitamin D, iron, selenium and zinc, and avoiding foods that inhibit thyroid health, such as raw cruciferous vegetables, soy, sugar and caffeine. (For a detailed list of nutritional dos and don’ts, see the Web Extra below.)
                            Consuming a lot of caffeine each day will also affect the adrenal glands. Caffeine is a stimulant, and when you drink coffee or soda the body will produce adrenaline, which is supposed to happen when there is a fight or flight situation (not when you’re sitting at a desk in front of a computer). So whenever you consume caffeine it will cause the adrenals to release the hormones epinephrine and norepinephrine, and when this happens repeatedly this can wear out the adrenal glands.
                            Some of the symptoms of too much caffeine can mirror undertreated or untreated hypothyroidism or hyperthyroidism
                            Can Drinking Caffeine Lead To Thyroid Cancer?

                            A study on rats showed that giving them caffeine when combined with an iodine deficiency increased the incidence of thyroid cancer. I don’t know of any findings that show the same effect in humans, although if you happen to drink coffee, tea, and/or soda on a regular basis then I probably would make sure to correct any iodine deficiency you may have.

                            There also is a risk of developing osteoporosis by consuming too much caffeine. Since caffeine causes the urinary excretion of calcium, this can potentially cause or contribute to osteoporosis. And if you currently have hyperthyroidism or Graves’ Disease this risk is already increased, and so this is yet another reason to be careful about drinking beverages which have caffeine on a regular basis.
                            And of course its on the avoid list in Dr. K's News

                            Foods to avoid.....
                            Other: canned foods, coffee, processed foods..
                            I'm actually a big coffee drinker. I just get annoyed with the meme that anything that is a stimulant must be good for you cause....thyroids! Its silly.
                            Last edited by Neckhammer; 04-26-2014, 11:19 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              if I can drink 8 liters of coffee a day and still take a caffine pill before my workouts I am going to say I qualify as a caffine addict. Probaly like those alcoholics that can function at super high BAC levels without blacking out.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                I don't like the taste of coffee. I started drinking it to help me wake up after 6 am work starts, but it increased my heart rate significantly and I would get jitters. Cut that stuff out.
                                http://lifemutt.blogspot.sg/ - Gaming, Food Reviews and Life in Singapore

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X